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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 1:25:49 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I hope that nobody minds a rather long response to this. I find this topic fascinating.


Yeah, me too! :)

quote:


I would replace the last concept with the concept of 'power' or 'energy'


Meh.  I have no problem with either of your words, but they don't carry anything additional for me.  Power and Energy are simply the resultant products of Force.  And Force, for me can imply things that are not dynamic, such as the force of the rope that holds one still or the force of a gag that keeps one silent.

quote:


That being said, Service -cannot- be a desire to please someone else...

----snip----

The pleasure of service, if this is the core motivation, comes from a job well done, and the knowledge that life has been made easier for another.


These two statements seem contradictory.  Are you saying the pleasure of service comes from doing the job, and not the pleasing of others?  Seems a mighty small nit to pick...

quote:


I would replace this with "intensity".


I am would be ok with this change, as it would allow fear to be part of the activities without trying to stretch the definition of Pain, but I think it is too non-specific.  Intensity is a measure of something, it isn't something.  Force can be intense, without being painful.  Ownership can be intense without being painful.  And remember, I am talking about Pain (and indicator) and not pain (a feeling of ouchiness).  Pain is a place holder for a number of activities which are mostly painful.  Some are not, but most are.

I disagree that pain/intensity is an externally driven motivation

I wish I had left the internal/external stuff out as it makes no difference in my index...it just sorta popped into my head as I was writing.  Let's leave that conversation for another day...

quote:


+Service, +Intensity, +Ownership, +Power: The Slave


I like this, but we will get the same crap from people who call themselves "slaves" as I have been getting from people who call themselves "bottoms".  I think overloading the term "The Slave" might be a bad idea.

quote:


+Service, +Intensity, +Ownership, -Power: The Bond-Servant


I have never heard this term before, and I love it.  I might go with Bond-Slave, keeping the Ownership indicator aligned with "slave".  If you want to write a 75 word description of this archetype however, I will keep it "The Bond-Servant". ;)

quote:


+Service, -Intensity, +Ownership, +Power: The Zen Servant


I am not getting this one...'splain, please.

quote:


+Service, -Intensity, -Ownership, +Power: The Guided Servant


Meh...I don't hate it.  Again, a 75 word description and I would take this one.

quote:


+Service, -Intensity, -Ownership, -Power: The Sacred Prostitute


I don't get this one at all.  When I think of a pure service submissive, I see Alfred the Butler.

quote:


-Service, +Intensity, +Ownership, +Power: The Bleeding Captive


Where is the ownership in this name?  Captives don't want to be there...this archetype needs to feel owned, not just controlled.

quote:


-Service, +Intensity, -Ownership, -Power: The Intensity Slut


Meh.  My name is much more visual.

quote:


-Service, -Intensity, +Ownership, +Power: The Trophy Husband/Wife


I like mine more.  I don't see where Force comes into "The Trophy Husband/Wife".

quote:


-Service, -Intensity, -Ownership, +Power: The Acolyte


Don't get this one, but I have pretty much settled on "The Victim" for this one.

quote:


-Service, -Intensity, -Ownership, -Force: The Undiscovered


Ok, maybe...but in order to get this score, you pretty much have to not like any BDSM activities.  But I know how BDSMers hate to be called vanilla...

Thanks for the thoughts!!!
Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 9/2/2008 1:51:36 PM >

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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 1:34:23 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I'd like to see one for Tops/Dominants as well.  My only thought is that it should be completed in the same way using similar psychological types - if that makes sense?


I am working on that next.


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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 1:40:06 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
There has to be a construct somewhere between force and authority that encapsulates both.


Force: between force and authority.

Dudes, you are spending all your times on words instead of on definition.

What we have come up with is 4 indicators A (service), B (pain, fear, etc), C (ownership), D (authority, force, power, energy).

Pick words, define them in the context of the index.  Have clear definitions and the actual words matter little.

Taggard


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A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 1:42:53 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
What labels would I have picked?  Those more along the lines of what CallaFireStorm (sp?) listed.  Your initial choices seemed to be more negatively slanted across the board, and hinted at a negative stereotyping that I was not comfortable with.  Just my personal first impression of the labels you listed in your OP. 


Hmmm...funny, I don't find any of my archetype labels to be negative.  Perhaps the "The Lazy Slave", but if the shoe fits.  Maybe I'm not the one doing the negative stereotyping.

Taggard


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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 1:48:59 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Tag -- to me, the way you're describing 'force' would seem to stick it under the same category as "pain", considering that 'discomfort' is a lower level of pain and what you are describing seems more to be a desire for externally-applied discomfort. That would make one category or the other essentially redundant.


There is little Pain involved with bondage.  That is all Force (maybe some Ownership, depending on the type of bondage.)  There might be some Pain involved in hair pulling, but when done right, not much.  Force is bondage, gags, rape play, hair pulling, erotic wrestling, cuffs and collars, teacher/student role play, puppy training.  Each of those things might have aspects of the other indicators, but the primary one is, in my mind, Force.

Pain is a cattle prod, needle play, fear play, hard beatings, burns, CBT, nipple torture.  Again, they might have aspects of the other indicators, but the primary one is Pain.

Taggard

Taggard


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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 2:37:21 PM   
leadership527


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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 3:28:16 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
What labels would I have picked?  Those more along the lines of what CallaFireStorm (sp?) listed.  Your initial choices seemed to be more negatively slanted across the board, and hinted at a negative stereotyping that I was not comfortable with.  Just my personal first impression of the labels you listed in your OP. 


Hmmm...funny, I don't find any of my archetype labels to be negative.  Perhaps the "The Lazy Slave", but if the shoe fits.  Maybe I'm not the one doing the negative stereotyping.

Taggard



Perhaps.  As I said, those were my first impressions - and I've been second guessing them since I first read the original post, trying to figure out exactly what it was that gave me those negative impressions.   It wouldn't be the first time I have re-evalutated my opinions and found a new way of looking at things. Regardless, it is rather interesting either way, and food for thought. 

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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 3:28:19 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty



I disagree.  I think they would want sex even if they didn't want BDSM.  Unless they are into BDSM because they can't get laid any other way, I don't see sex as a motivation for BDSM activities.  In other words, I don't see how wearing a ball gag can be inspired by the desire for sex.  I can see how sex would be better with a ball gag if a person had a desire for both sex and having Force exerted on them at the same time, but the sex doesn't drive the desire to be gagged.



Too many subjective opinions to have this test look anywhere near empirical and way off the mark of hypothesis testing.
Sorry just saying.


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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 3:31:59 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
So; i am asking you to re-think what dimensuon could/would be substituted for force (as within my dunamic and within the dynamics of other slave's i know) there is total absence of it as far as my experience goes.


So you think there are no slaves out there who desire Force in their relationships?  I know one quite well...my own Kat.  She adores being forced to do things...being tied up...having her hair roughly grabbed and being pushed down on my cock until she gags.  Those are the Force actions in my mind, and I haven't met many slaves who aren't motivated by that kind of play.

That said, you may not...and that is totally understandable, but it doesn't mean that others don't.

Taggard


When i submit then there's lesser or greater degrees of what you term force yes.
But i am reffering to slavery.
I consented to no limits. If i have no limits then how can there be force/
I'm not trying in anyway to assume my experience is that of others. if you knew me you would know how far this is away from the truth of what i am.

It's a very difficult mix this mix of objective testing and personal experience. like oil and water.


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RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 3:37:03 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty



I like this, but we will get the same crap from people who call themselves "slaves" as I have been getting from people who call themselves "bottoms".  I think overloading the term "The Slave" might be a bad idea.



prinsexx crawls away from the researcher obviously overloaded with researcher bias......


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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Motivations for BDSM - 9/2/2008 3:45:48 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
There has to be a construct somewhere between force and authority that encapsulates both.


Force: between force and authority.

Dudes, you are spending all your times on words instead of on definition.

What we have come up with is 4 indicators A (service), B (pain, fear, etc), C (ownership), D (authority, force, power, energy).

Pick words, define them in the context of the index.  Have clear definitions and the actual words matter little.

Taggard


Well in my humble opinion i find words quite important. Funny how something starts off as a syndrome (BDS) and becomes a disorder (BDD) if the researchers can dupe enough participants into answering questionnaires to make a valid sample.
C'mon....go pilot scheme the factors first and then let's see if the 'we' the 'us' out here who are 'suffering the overladen condition known as slavery either justify your efforts or not.
I really do apologise if i am sounding more and more skeptical about your approach but i have spent eleven good yearsin the field (testing) have a degree in which i studied statistics and hypothesis testing (as well as yes you got it being a slave) to know when someone is using a so-called scientific approach to justify preconceived subjective opinions.
Just saying.


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