RE: Master's Code of Ethics

RE: Master's Code of Ethics (Full Version)

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DavidS8ist -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 6:14:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster My code of ethics is: 天地不仁，以萬物為芻狗。 Heaven and Earth are not humane; they treat the myriad creatures like straw dogs. I like it. Mine is equally simple and complex: Age quod agis. Do what you do. And, implicitly, own it. D.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 9:58:57 AM)
It's from Lao-tzu. But I'd rather not try to explain it. After all: 夫代大匠斲者，希有不傷其手矣。 Few are those who hack in place of the master craftsman and do not harm their own hands. From the same text. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterAramis quote: 天地不仁，以萬物為芻狗。 Heaven and Earth are not humane; they treat the myriad creatures like straw dogs. Do you care to elaborate?

MasterAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 3:05:08 PM)
quote: It's from Lao-tzu. But I'd rather not try to explain it. After all: Well thank you for the post then, but the OP was offered to try to start a discussion of what many of the Masters who frequent this board hold as a personal set of ethics. The Mastery of oneself is something that does not occur overnight, it takes time and is like a steel blade the blacksmith forges out of the fire, during that forging, the man develops his philosophy on how he holds himself. While you may liken your personal code of ethics to one line from Lao-tzu, I can't believe that's all there is. But again thanks for sharing. Aramis

MasterAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 3:14:09 PM)
quote: If he needed to write out a code of ethics, I'd assume he didn't live by them. There is nothing wrong with writing it down and trying to gain a perspective of oneself. Perhaps if people actually took the time to think about it a bit and wrote them down, we could have better discussion on the matter. If given any thought, I am sure a mans personal ethics would at take up a page at the very least. I have only seen ONE poster who has been able to articulate his beliefs outside of a few words. I think if you polled many of the Masters or those who identify as such at a fetish event, and asked them what their personal code of ethics are, you would get a lot of blank stares. Aramis Duval

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 5:37:47 PM)
Actually, as someone who's studied the Dao myself, I can elaborate on my understanding of the previous two statements. quote: Heaven and Earth are not humane; they treat the myriad creatures like straw dogs. I've always understood this statement as "There are no ethics in the real world, so I use my force how I choose." quote: Few are those who hack in place of the master craftsman and do not harm their own hands. I've always understood this statement to mean "If you aren't as cool as me, sucks to be you." I have no idea if this is what the original poster meant by them - it's a tricky thing about the Dao that you really can't home in on it linguistically.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 5:39:52 PM)
Mastery of oneself comes from finding one's own answers--not just listening to everyone else's explanations. Sure, I could give you an "explanation," but what would be the point? It's not supposed to be easy. Frankly, that one line from Lao-tzu is worth a whole lot more than many of those forged and hardened personal philosophies I've heard over the years. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterAramis quote: It's from Lao-tzu. But I'd rather not try to explain it. After all: Well thank you for the post then, but the OP was offered to try to start a discussion of what many of the Masters who frequent this board hold as a personal set of ethics. The Mastery of oneself is something that does not occur overnight, it takes time and is like a steel blade the blacksmith forges out of the fire, during that forging, the man develops his philosophy on how he holds himself. While you may liken your personal code of ethics to one line from Lao-tzu, I can't believe that's all there is. But again thanks for sharing. Aramis

Lordandmaster -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 5:42:29 PM)
The first...about right, though the second half isn't in the statement itself. It would be more like: "I'll use my force as Heaven and Earth would." The second...no. It means that you can't do Nature's work. You'll just fuck it up and probably hurt yourself in the process. quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth Actually, as someone who's studied the Dao myself, I can elaborate on my understanding of the previous two statements. quote: Heaven and Earth are not humane; they treat the myriad creatures like straw dogs. I've always understood this statement as "There are no ethics in the real world, so I use my force how I choose." quote: Few are those who hack in place of the master craftsman and do not harm their own hands. I've always understood this statement to mean "If you aren't as cool as me, sucks to be you." I have no idea if this is what the original poster meant by them - it's a tricky thing about the Dao that you really can't home in on it linguistically.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 5:51:55 PM)
Well, there's different ways to "do" nature's work - you can try to do nature's work yourself, or you can simply be that part of the process that is doing nature's work already. The Dao cannot be communicated, but sometimes a seed can still be planted.

KnightofMists -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 7:13:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterAramis I have only seen ONE poster who has been able to articulate his beliefs outside of a few words. mmmmmmmm no what you have seen is only one poster that has CHOSEN to articulate his beliefs outside of a few words. Just because some of choose to do so in a few words doesn't reflect a lack of ability... there could be many motivations to why such a choice as been made. quote: I think if you polled many of the Masters or those who identify as such at a fetish event, and asked them what their personal code of ethics are, you would get a lot of blank stares. really? mmmmm then I suspect you haven't been to a leather fetish event. You don't have to ask them... there actions speak louder than any words could. But... I suppose holding on to such a belief allows you to feel superior over all those blank stares.

MadRabbit -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 7:36:29 PM)
I am a pragmatist and I have a hard time with the concept of writing down what I consider to be "virtous" and "ethical" into something static, unchanging and unwavering. My compass is similar to the other dominants here. "Do not harm!" Whatever it is, I do, it's to keep things going forward in a positive, healthy, and constructive way. My moral center is a part of me and something always changing and always driving me forward. Being a "good person" is something simply demonstrated by my choices and actions and to form it into something linear and overly simplistic such as "Do not lie. Do not steal" is limiting and restrictive and doesn't do the often very difficult and endlessly complicated struggle of "being righteous" any justice.

DomDolf -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 7:51:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists "Do thy will, Harm None" This is the rock I stand on.... Everything comes from there. The above quote I agreed with 100% because it is the rock I also stand on. To some people these words speak complete volumes. Of course some people I have to explain how to go from A to B to C, etc. to Z and some I can point at A and point at Z and they can figure out the rest. So while some see volumes some see eleven words. Dolf

Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 7:55:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 something I are. I manage my wife as if she were the woman I loved -- as if I wasn't lying through my teeth when I said things like, "You're the most important thing in the world to me". Given the clarity of my priority scale, all decisions pretty naturally flow from there. Note though that while I have a "woman who obeys without question", I'm not really sure that I am a part of the "master and slave dynamic". Your call whether you see a wife who obeys as a part of your dynamic or not. Actually I picked up on the sarcasm. I've read other of your posts though as well.

Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:05:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I am a pragmatist and I have a hard time with the concept of writing down what I consider to be "virtous" and "ethical" into something static, unchanging and unwavering. My compass is similar to the other dominants here. "Do not harm!" Whatever it is, I do, it's to keep things going forward in a positive, healthy, and constructive way. My moral center is a part of me and something always changing and always driving me forward. Being a "good person" is something simply demonstrated by my choices and actions and to form it into something linear and overly simplistic such as "Do not lie. Do not steal" is limiting and restrictive and doesn't do the often very difficult and endlessly complicated struggle of "being righteous" any justice. Mind elaborating on why you'd consider stating those things as limiting/restrictive..or even writing them down? Just curious. I'd agree with the next part of that line.

MadRabbit -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:06:45 PM)
Because I've lied when I honestly 100% thought that someone needed more time before they were ready to hear the truth and I would gladly steal to feed my kids if I had any. In both actions, I found or would find, give the circumstances, that I was doing the "right" thing.

Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:12:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Because I've lied when I honestly 100% thought that someone needed more time before they were ready to hear the truth and I would gladly steal to feed my kids if I had any. In both actions, I found or would find, give the circumstances, that I was doing the "right" thing. I respect your honesty. Yet you do think they are wrong to do no? I've done similar things as well in my younger days and worse but i knew they were wrong.

Jeffff -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:14:59 PM)
Doesn't everyone rationalize, everything? Ethics are no different than any other belief. What I would considerer ethical others would not. In the end we each must answer to ourselves. Trying to codify it for others seems pointless. Jeff

Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Doesn't everyone rationalize, everything? Ethics are no different than any other belief. What I would considerer ethical others would not. In the end we each must answer to ourselves. Trying to codify it for others seems pointless. Jeff In this case, aren't there at least some unified beliefs? Is this all up to interpretation as everything else on this board is or can we not agree what might be ethical as well?

Jeffff -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:24:46 PM)
I think only in the broadest sense can there be universal beliefs. We can all probably agree that , in this context, killing ones submissive is unethical . I know for a fact that people engage in behavior I find unethical. Yet neither partner finds it so. I would hope everyone strives to be an ethical person, but I don't think you should count on that. I am not " married" to this idea. It just came off the top Jeff

MadRabbit -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:25:16 PM)
Wrong in an ethical sense? Sure. I would agree they are unethical in a "Big Picture Sense". But to adhere to such a black and white code of ethics would make me an idealist and I'm not. I'm a pragmatist, because I find that the notions of "right" or "wrong" aren't anything clear cut or objective. They are very much grey and doing something that can be deemed ethically "wrong" can result in doing something "right" and doing something ethically "right" can result in doing something "wrong". As a manager, I can do something "right" for a single subordinate that will result in something "wrong" for a company and vice versa. When presented with such difficult decisions, all a man can do is decide what he values as "virtue" and act in accordance. Do I find that loyalty for the employees under me is more important than my duty to the company? For me, the people I consider to be my "family" and loyalty, devotion, and protection of them are almost always going to trump everything else. I admire people who have such strong ideals that they can adhere to the ideal even when it means doing something "wrong" or "harmful" to the ones they love, but I am not one of those people. Edited to Add : We can logically deduce that "killing" is "wrong", because if everyone killed each other, then that would result in chaos and anarchy and death. Even though I know this, it won't stop me from killing someone to save the life of a loved one they threatened.

Jeffff -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:29:14 PM)
MR, I would disagree that the examples you gave were unethical in a " Big Picture" sense. Perhaps in a micro view they might be so. The Big picture allows for peoples feelings to be thought of and for children to eat. Jeff

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