RE: Master's Code of Ethics (Full Version)

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Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:29:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I think only in the broadest sense can there be universal beliefs. We can all probably agree that , in this context, killing ones submissive is unethical .

I know for a fact that people engage in behavior I  find unethical. Yet neither partner finds it so.

I would hope everyone strives to be an ethical person, but I don't think you should count on that.

I am not " married" to this idea. It just came off the top

Jeff


I'm talking about the pretty well known no stealing and the such. I know if i had no other way to get food..and i would exhaust all my avenue's before doing it..I would feed my kids(if i had any as well) but i would still know it was wrong. I understand where he's coming from..just saying.

Just because you justify it doesn't make it right. I think we all know what is right..even the worst of us..they just tend to ignore it.



Jeffff -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:36:12 PM)

Ok. I have a child......... and I would not have considered it wrong to shop lift from the local Mega mart to have fed her. Not as a career mind you, but under extreme circumstances? nope neither wrong nor unethical.

I actually Belive that too. I am not just being contrary. I would be wrong to stick up a convenience store to get money to feed her.

Thus my own rationalizations

Jeff




MadRabbit -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:39:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Just because you justify it doesn't make it right. I think we all know what is right..even the worst of us..they just tend to ignore it.



I would agree that we know what we are taught is right and wrong. I once thought hitting women was "wrong" and that got evolved through experience and enlightment to "hitting women when they don't consent to me hitting them is wrong". [:D]



Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:43:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Just because you justify it doesn't make it right. I think we all know what is right..even the worst of us..they just tend to ignore it.



I would agree that we know what we are taught is right and wrong. I once thought hitting women was "wrong" and that got evolved through experience and enlightment to "hitting women when they don't consent to me hitting them is wrong". [:D]



Chuckles..Levity will get you no where. So do not harm to others unless they ask for it?
(edited cause i goofed)



MadRabbit -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:48:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Just because you justify it doesn't make it right. I think we all know what is right..even the worst of us..they just tend to ignore it.



I would agree that we know what we are taught is right and wrong. I once thought hitting women was "wrong" and that got evolved through experience and enlightment to "hitting women when they don't consent to me hitting them is wrong". [:D]



Chuckles..Levity will get you no where. So do not harm to others unless they ask for it?
(edited cause i goofed)



I said "harm" and not "hurt". I "hurt" someone with my knives for my enjoyment, but don't "harm" them in the sense that I am doing something that for them is a serious, negative consequence. It's a dichotomy that applied beyond S/M, as well. I "hurt" someone when I stitch them up to keep them from being "harmed" by bleeding to death.



Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:50:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Just because you justify it doesn't make it right. I think we all know what is right..even the worst of us..they just tend to ignore it.



I would agree that we know what we are taught is right and wrong. I once thought hitting women was "wrong" and that got evolved through experience and enlightment to "hitting women when they don't consent to me hitting them is wrong". [:D]



Chuckles..Levity will get you no where. So do not harm to others unless they ask for it?
(edited cause i goofed)



I said "harm" and not "hurt". I "hurt" someone with my knives for my enjoyment, but don't "harm" them in the sense that I am doing something that for them is a serious, negative consequence. It's a dichotomy that applied beyond S/M, as well. I "hurt" someone when I stitch them up to keep them from being "harmed" by bleeding to death.


That was tongue in cheek. I knew what you meant.



MadRabbit -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:51:16 PM)

All cool. Context doesn't always translate well over the Internet.



DomDolf -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:53:22 PM)

With all this hurt talk going on I hope someone is getting spanked, caned, whipped or tortured in some fashion!



Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:53:37 PM)

I'm not sure where i picked this up at..I thought i had come up with it myself but it's on the net lol..There are not just black and white but infinite shades of Grey. Yet i still do believe in blacks and whites. Some things are just truths.

I just got another cuff..Party at my house![:D]



Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 8:57:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

With all this hurt talk going on I hope someone is getting spanked, caned, whipped or tortured in some fashion!


Well i have an assortment of cuff's now..That's a start.



Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 9:04:56 PM)

I could understand doing some of those things if pushed to the extremes but again, I know they are wrong from the start. If you stole from someone..then your taking food or money out of their hands that doesn't belong to you. If you kill, your taking a life that wasn't yours to take. Now i'm with you..If someone tried to hurt a loved one, they would be best to take their own lives before i got a hold of them. I might want to hurt them in ways that would take some time before they left this world. Still doesn't make it right. Isn't that the rational truth?



MasterAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 9:14:24 PM)

quote:

mmmmmmmm no what you have seen is only one poster that has CHOSEN to articulate his beliefs outside of a few words. Just because some of choose to do so in a few words doesn't reflect a lack of ability... there could be many motivations to why such a choice as been made.


This is a discussion forum. If you are only going to throw a few words then why waste your time at all? The funny thing is, this thread got more in the way of meaningful responses and more dialog than prior to the post being made, so it had the intended effect.

quote:

But... I suppose holding on to such a belief allows you to feel superior over all those blank stares


No, I think someone else has that covered. Thanks anyway!



KnightofMists -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/6/2008 11:11:49 PM)

quote:


. If you are only going to throw a few words then why waste your time at all?


because sometimes a few words is all that is needed.



AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/7/2008 4:47:36 AM)

This girl was looking at this thread, and decided to search on ethics. This is what she found online:

Ethics is two things. First, ethics refers to well based standards of right and wrong that prescribe what humans ought to do, usually in terms of rights, obligations, benefits to society, fairness, or specific virtues. Ethics, for example, refers to those standards that impose the reasonable obligations to refrain from rape, stealing, murder, assault, slander, and fraud. Ethical standards also include those that enjoin virtues of honesty, compassion, and loyalty. And, ethical standards include standards relating to rights, such as the right to life, the right to freedom from injury, and the right to privacy. Such standards are adequate standards of ethics because they are supported by consistent and well founded reasons.

Secondly, ethics refers to the study and development of one's ethical standards. As mentioned above, feelings, laws, and social norms can deviate from what is ethical. So it is necessary to constantly examine one's standards to ensure that they are reasonable and well-founded. Ethics also means, then, the continuous effort of studying our own moral beliefs and our moral conduct, and striving to ensure that we, and the institutions we help to shape, live up to standards that are reasonable and solidly-based.

This article appeared originally in Issues in Ethics IIE V1 N1 (Fall 1987)

She wonders if this may help spur some discussion as to how dominants apply this to their lives. What principles guide men who seek to master themselves and others? What values should a good dominant have in your opinion?

Regards,

anna



bosch -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/7/2008 7:35:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Mastery of oneself comes from finding one's own answers--not just listening to everyone else's explanations.  Sure, I could give you an "explanation," but what would be the point?  It's not supposed to be easy.

Frankly, that one line from Lao-tzu is worth a whole lot more than many of those forged and hardened personal philosophies I've heard over the years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

It's from Lao-tzu. But I'd rather not try to explain it. After all:


Well thank you for the post then, but the OP was offered to try to start a discussion of what many of the Masters who frequent this board hold as a personal set of ethics. The Mastery of oneself is something that does not occur overnight, it takes time and is like a steel blade the blacksmith forges out of the fire, during that forging, the man develops his philosophy on how he holds himself. While you may liken your personal code of ethics to one line from Lao-tzu, I can't believe that's all there is.

But again thanks for sharing.

Aramis




Lordandmaster,

With all due respect, glib philosophical one-liners do not a code of ethics make. The verse you quote is a statement about the nature of nature. It is the existentialist idea that man impresses upon his understanding of the nature of the world his own religious, political, social or ethical frameworks when in fact the nature of the world is beyond any framework man could develop. A better Western interpretation of this idea is encapsulated in the Steven Crane quote:


A man said to the universe:
"Sir I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."


I must take issue with you on your point - why should you try to explain it? You're right  - it isn't supposed to be easy. But being able to explain your position is much harder than simply throwing up your hands and calling it 'inexplicable.' Perhaps you're alluding to another Taoist ideal: "Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." But that doesn't really apply here.

To the OP - I think it admirable that you ask the question and take the time to think through and codify for yourself some ideals by which to live. We would all be better off in contemplating these questions. As for myself, I strive for ideals set out in what are known as the "Three treasures of Lao-Tzu" - from verse 67:

"I have three treasures which I hold and keep.
The first is mercy; the second is economy;
The third is humility.
From mercy comes courage; from economy comes generosity;
From humility comes leadership."



For me, the first treasure of mercy implies kindness, empathy, and the ability to reflect on my own abilities - strengths and weaknesses - truthfully. The second of economy implies many things, but mostly lack of extravagance. The third of humility is generally translated literally as 'daring not to be ahead of others.' I have always interpreted this as leading by example, rather than through words.

In trying to apply these principles I am sometimes successful. Other times I am not. But I have found that measuring my actions against these principles has always helped to make improvements in my own character and integrity.





Ialdabaoth -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/7/2008 10:10:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis

She wonders if this may help spur some discussion as to how dominants apply this to their lives. What principles guide men who seek to master themselves and others? What values should a good dominant have in your opinion?



Well, in my case, the values I respect most are communication, humility, empathy, and creativity.

Communication means I will always strive to be honest, and at the same time always strive to ensure that I'm speaking the same emotional and metaphoric language as the person I'm communicating with. It means I listen as well as I speak, that I pay attention to the world around me, and that I treat every moment as a learning experience.

Humility means I will never assume that I am doing it right, that I will never assume that I deserve anything, and that I will never assume that I am good enough. I will always strive to improve, and I will always strive to treat others with more respect than they show me. I will display my skills rather than describe them, and I will allow others to judge me on their own merits, not mine.

Empathy means I will always strive to understand others and where they are coming from, what they need, and what I can do to help. I will always place the needs of the many over the needs of the few, or the needs of the suffering over the needs of the merely inconvenienced. I will do this even when the entire world tells me not to. And I will do this with humility, never assuming that I know the answers or even that I'm actually doing good by it - I will merely do the best I can, and accept all consequences of my actions. When those consequences cause harm, I will redress from whatever personal resources I have available, as my empathy dictates.

Creativity means I will impart my aesthetic Will upon the world, and will always strive to make the world a more beautiful and interesting place. I will strive for change rather than stability, I will strive for growth rather than comfort, and I will strive always to justify my existence through my works. I will always remember that I have great things to accomplish, and precious little time to accomplish them in. And when others can aid me in accomplishing these things, I will negotiate with them, and I will use their power and will towards my ends as much as they will permit me.

Does all that make sense?



candystripper -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/7/2008 1:33:45 PM)

I know you did not solicit my advice or response, but I'm in a nosey mood.
 
I've had various codes imposed on me and those around me for a very long time.  One thing I have noticed is, there are those who uphold them, and those who adhere to them.
 
The men and women who uphold a code will tend to view a situation through a certain lens: what is the ehtical thing to do?  Before asking, what do I want to do?  What is the easy thing to do?
 
The men and women who merely adhere to a code will use the code as their 'gut check'; having chosen a course of conduct, can they 'tweak' it so that no stricture of their code is offended?
 
I think it matters less what code you adopt; it matters whether you strive to live up to it, or use it to escape responsibility.
 
candystripper   [sm=pole.gif]



AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/7/2008 5:38:37 PM)

quote:

Does all that make sense?


Indeed, it makes most admirable sense Sir and this girl enjoyed reading your thoughtful post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Regards,

anna



AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/7/2008 5:51:27 PM)

quote:

The men and women who uphold a code will tend to view a situation through a certain lens: what is the ehtical thing to do? Before asking, what do I want to do? What is the easy thing to do?

The men and women who merely adhere to a code will use the code as their 'gut check'; having chosen a course of conduct, can they 'tweak' it so that no stricture of their code is offended?


This is a very interesting observation. This girl was married to someone once who was orthodox in his religion and he and many others would find 'work-arounds' to technically stay within the religious law and break no rule, and yet it was still a loophole and not really in line with the spirit of the law. You are right that the sort of man whom one would admire would be the type that does what is right and not what is easy.

Thank you for your insight,

anna



CelticPrince -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/10/2008 5:14:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

Before I begin, I am directing this question to those Masters who are part of a Master and slave dynamic. Secondly, i am not here to impose my views on anyone but to try to gain an understanding of what others do.

Many professions operate on a published Code of Ethics, Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants etc. Many Masters that I know of, operate on a Personal Code of Ethics, including myself. It dictates how I run my life and be the man that I am. Of late I have become curious as to whether my ethical approach to myself as well as to how I manage my property is similar or dissimilar to others. So I would like to know if indeed you have this? Did you write it out or is it just something you are?

Sincerely,



MA,

For me it is a code gleaned frommany years on the path.

CP

Aramis Duval





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