RE: Master's Code of Ethics

RE: Master's Code of Ethics (Full Version)

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Kaer -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/10/2008 5:52:00 PM)
K.I.S.S ... Keep It Stupily Simple A Man cannot take what is not willingly given Let every Man choose His own treasure TPE is a two way street in symbiotic harmony

skeletoncrew -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/10/2008 7:46:02 PM)
i did like the idea of defining what ethics are exactly, so we have SOME idea of what we are talking about: ethics –plural noun 1.(used with a singular or plural verb[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture. 2.the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics. 3.moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence. 4.(usually used with a singular verb[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions. quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick A code of ethics defines values, standards and principles, and defines the manner in which you strive to live your life. I suppose you could have an "unethical" code of ethics, although that seems to defeat the purpose as well as being an oxymoron. Hence the reason my brain hurts. this might blow your mind a little bit and make it hurt some more, but for example Adolf Hilter WAS an ethical person...since "rightness", "wrongness", "badness", and "goodness" are 100% COMPLETELY subjective...sorry to blow your mind, but one CAN be an "evil" person and be COMPLETELY moral and ethical, it is all relative...and since i am talking about nazis don't get me started on the so-called "medical ethics" of the doctors that readily helped and supported the Third Reich all over Europe(and people wonder why i don't trust doctors)... quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Doesn't everyone rationalize, everything? Ethics are no different than any other belief. What I would considerer ethical others would not. In the end we each must answer to ourselves. Trying to codify it for others seems pointless. i think you have a good point, a very good point...but, that isn't gonna stop people from talking about it...[:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys In this case, aren't there at least some unified beliefs? Is this all up to interpretation as everything else on this board is or can we not agree what might be ethical as well? there may be unified beliefs, but they are still all subjective even if agreed upon by a large(or small) group of people...one person's ethical is another person's unethical, if you want to by tyrannical you can try to enforce "unified beliefs", but it would pretty much be a sham from any objective reality, it would just be a form of authoritarianism.... quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I think only in the broadest sense can there be universal beliefs. We can all probably agree that , in this context, killing ones submissive is unethical . what if the sub is terminally ill and wants to be killed, begs to be killed??? what if they are trying to kill you??? what if killing them will save their offspring(in like a terrorist situation)??? judging from your posts i think you know the "answer" here, they are rhetorical questions for those that do not... quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I would hope everyone strives to be an ethical person, but I don't think you should count on that. i think everyone strives to be ethical within the framework of their own subjective ethical code...i just wouldn't "count on that" being the same ethics you may have... quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit But to adhere to such a black and white code of ethics would make me an idealist and I'm not. I'm a pragmatist, because I find that the notions of "right" or "wrong" aren't anything clear cut or objective. they aren't objective at ALL, completely subjective...the "true" villian never thinks of themself as a villian, they believe they are doing the right, moral, and ethical thing(yes, even Hilter)...when Russia recently invaded Georgia it was seen are the moral and ethical thing to do ie the right thing to do from the Russian perspective, but from the Western perspective it was not...who is more "right" and who is more "wrong" in the situation??? the answer depends upon the subjective basis in which you answer it... quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit When presented with such difficult decisions, all a man can do is decide what he values as "virtue" and act in accordance. Do I find that loyalty for the employees under me is more important than my duty to the company? exactly...i know when i was a manager i tended to find my loyalty for the employees under me WAS more important than my "duty" to the company...to which my employess though was a great moral and ethical position, however the company tended not to see it that way because of their subjective perspective...it is all relative... quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I'm talking about the pretty well known no stealing and the such. sorry, your "well known"(which is really more of a vague social agreement) is STILL completely subjective...from the shamanic perspective you cannot own anything(for if ownership does exist don't the trees have first claim to the land???) so you cannot be unethical for "stealing" something which someone already "stole"...or more appropriately "liberating" something that they had no right to "own" in the first place... when some one steals the water from a river or an egg from a hen is this theft moral and ethical??? how about when you kill and steal a tree for timber??? or enslave a species to die for food??? where do you draw the line for such things??? the short answer is where you want to draw the line as it is all subjective at best... quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I know if i had no other way to get food..and i would exhaust all my avenue's before doing it..I would feed my kids(if i had any as well) but i would still know it was wrong. is it REALLY wrong to steal for survival what someone else has already stolen for profit??? all depends on your individual ethics, i have no problem with it personally and i do consider myself a moral and ethic person... quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys . I think we all know what is right..even the worst of us..they just tend to ignore it. these things are subjective, there is no knowing what is right, there is defining it...i find it better to look at these things in terms of constructive/destructive, progressive/regressive, liberating/tyrannical, i find these concepts to be alot more objective and reality based than the many vague notions of "right" and "wrong"... quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I could understand doing some of those things if pushed to the extremes but again, I know they are wrong from the start. If you stole from someone..then your taking food or money out of their hands that doesn't belong to you. from my point of view it doesn't belong to them either...no harm no foul... quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys If you kill, your taking a life that wasn't yours to take. so you don't eat anything right because when you eat you kill(or pay somebody to kill) animals and plants that don't belong to you...animals and plants "belong" to the ecosystem of which man is a part, not above or seperated from or owner of...or when you eat an egg you kill the potential for life that does not "belong" to you...where do you draw the line??? some draw it with humans, some with animals, some with plants they don't have to kill to eat(like tomatoes, apples, etc), but it ALL is subjective to individual morals and ethics... quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys Now i'm with you..If someone tried to hurt a loved one, they would be best to take their own lives before i got a hold of them. I might want to hurt them in ways that would take some time before they left this world. Still doesn't make it right. Isn't that the rational truth? cause and effect are rationala truths, nothing moraly or ethically wrong from defending your own and metting out proportion "punishment" for those that have attacked others...that is the different between moral and ethic justice and revenge or vengeance... quote: ORIGINAL: Kaer A Man cannot take what is not willingly given Let every Man choose His own treasure i hope you don't live in America 'cause here the entire country was taken and not willingly given, the entire country was "stolen" from the indeginous people who were then slaughtered(theft and killing on a HUGE scale)...was our country founded and grown on a moral or ethical standpoint??? of COURSE it was, the morals and ethics of colonialism... it may be helpful to remember the old axiom one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, it all just depends upon which end of the ethical "gun" you stand on...

Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/10/2008 8:09:32 PM)
quote: this might blow your mind a little bit and make it hurt some more This might blow your mind as well but we have inside of us the ability to discern what right and wrong is. Yes we are taught it but why do you think we even came up with what it is to begin with..instead of being taught since we were young that "Hey everything in life is subjective so my version of right may not be right for you" Now go kill someone. I won't judge you. who am i to say it's wrong. Who needs unified beliefs. I think i'll make a stand and tell you..Killing is wrong..stealing something that isn't yours is wrong..I guess i could justify what i want so i can feel better about it but i choose not to. Now you can debate for the sake of it but to me some of the stuff you are saying is just being contrary. Society didn't become what it is today without people who had a clear vision of how to live a good life..Both from their own point of view and others at the same time. I think you can look back from today into the past and see how we have, on many fronts, grown up.

Kaer -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/11/2008 7:17:24 PM)
skeletoncrew I'm proud to be 100 percent Canadian of Viking ancestry

tia111 -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/11/2008 11:17:10 PM)
quote: I think i'll make a stand and tell you..Killing is wrong..stealing something that isn't yours is wrong..I guess i could justify what i want so i can feel better about it but i choose not to. I do believe that there can be justification for these actions. Killing is wrong and yet our countries are at war (maybe not yours and mine but i mean globally) are they justified because some guy told them the enemy had to die? Or are our soldiers ethically wrong? Stealing is wrong .. how about people that stole potato peelings out of garbage cans from the Nazis? Were they actually morally wrong? I am not trying to be difficult but i do understand what a few people are trying to say. Do i think i am morally justified in shooting my neighbour because he plays his music too loud? no. Should i go to Walmart and shove a camera down my shirt? no. apologies for not staying on topic. I am not dominant though my mantra is everyone has a story.

skeletoncrew -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/11/2008 11:30:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaer I'm proud to be 100 percent Canadian of Viking ancestry excellent, you should be proud of yourself irregardless of the ancestry... but, what are you thoughts on ethics and morals in the BDSM context???

Icarys -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/12/2008 8:50:05 AM)
Does a certain situation sometimes call for it as in "survival" ? Yes i do believe it does as i think i have stated in my previous posts. Does it then jusify not having any guilt over it? No i don't think so. I personally could justify a lot of things i did in my past but i refuse to do it. I think you have to be very careful not to turn off that ability to see your actions through the eyes of self honesty and that of the eyes of others. If you can kill someone and feel not the least bit of remorse for the taking of another's life, no matter what the reasons, then you become less of a human being.

xensuous -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/17/2008 6:53:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I said "harm" and not "hurt". I "hurt" someone with my knives for my enjoyment, but don't "harm" them in the sense that I am doing something that for them is a serious, negative consequence. It's a dichotomy that applied beyond S/M, as well. I "hurt" someone when I stitch them up to keep them from being "harmed" by bleeding to death. Oh dear! I hope you are a surgeon or a medical professional of some sort? Or do you stitch up the results of knife play? (Can you tell I haven't done any form of knife or blood play?) xen

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (9/17/2008 6:55:01 PM)
umm... stitching is basic first-aid stuff, isn't it?

wudazhi1980 -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/5/2009 9:10:57 PM)
天地不仁，以萬物為芻狗。 In the eyes of god，Everything is equal！夫代大匠斲者，希有不伤其手矣。 Outsiders to cut trees，Almost all Hurt his own hands

Malkinius -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/5/2009 11:53:54 PM)
Greetings Aramis.... One question....how many people do you think will come here and say they are not ethical at all and only do things because they want to and care nothing about the consequences to anyone else but themselves? There are too many of those people who call themselves Doms or Masters. They just aren't going to admit it most of the time. A better question is, how do you know that someone actually lives according to the ethics, if any, they profess? Secondarily, ask how can you tell what someone's ethics are from how they behave in a BDSM context? Be well.... Malkinius

NormalOutside -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 1:45:45 AM)
Fast reply. Looks like I too don't understand the question. My ethics (I don't normally use that word, but okay) aren't written down, no, but I still conduct myself by them.

spookyfe -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 2:22:00 AM)
my master has one do as yea will and harm none (ok not whzen it comes to giving me pain but it doesnt harm me smiles)

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 4:49:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys This might blow your mind as well but we have inside of us the ability to discern what right and wrong is. Yes we are taught it but why do you think we even came up with what it is to begin with..instead of being taught since we were young that "Hey everything in life is subjective so my version of right may not be right for you" Now go kill someone. I won't judge you. who am i to say it's wrong. Who needs unified beliefs. I think i'll make a stand and tell you..Killing is wrong..stealing something that isn't yours is wrong..I guess i could justify what i want so i can feel better about it but i choose not to. Actually even in the example of killing it is situational, and viewed differently by different cultures. That is not an opinion, but fact. Some cultures actually give high honor for theft, depending on the situation. quote: Society didn't become what it is today without people who had a clear vision of how to live a good life..Both from their own point of view and others at the same time. I think you can look back from today into the past and see how we have, on many fronts, grown up. Which society today? The West? The East? Mid Africa? All are at a different point in their societal mores. What have we grown up about? Seems more like that we are dishonest with ourselves as a society, dress up and rationalize some of the same primitive behavior, and then come up with some PC word for it. A personal code of ethics is just that, personal. It may not mesh with society, but if someone is smart they will at least obey the law. Does not mean it is part of their ethics, just that they do not wish to be punished. If these higher morals were so universal, then there would not actually be a need for laws, and men with guns.

DesFIP -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 5:03:14 AM)
I'm curious as to how skeletoncrew can pat herself on the back for being so ethical in dealing with work subordinates when she takes money from the company to follow their rules and guidelines and then does exactly opposite. That's theft, taking the money and not doing what she promised. The ethical thing here would be to not work for a company you feel is doing wrong.

Justme696 -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 5:09:21 AM)
OP Never thought of a code of ethics to be honost. Don't think there will be one either for a one on one relation.

AnimusRex -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 8:35:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wudazhi1980 夫代大匠斲者，希有不伤其手矣。 Outsiders to cut trees，Almost all Hurt his own hands A slight correction- the actual translation is: 夫代大匠斲者，希有不伤其手矣。 User do not cut trees without Safety Guard，Almost always Hurt his own hands! Which makes more sense.

LadyPact -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 8:52:44 AM)
I don't know why this one was called from the grave. Maybe it was for a lesson in translation. LOL. On a serious note, if you have to write your ethics down to show someone what your code of ethics is instead of talking about them, displaying them, and living them, I'd be a little concerned about how much those ethics meant to you in the first place.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 2:03:46 PM)
Damn we can agree on something. You are absolutely fucking right. Many people in today's cultures justify theft in many different forms. quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I'm curious as to how skeletoncrew can pat herself on the back for being so ethical in dealing with work subordinates when she takes money from the company to follow their rules and guidelines and then does exactly opposite. That's theft, taking the money and not doing what she promised. The ethical thing here would be to not work for a company you feel is doing wrong.

RavenMuse -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 2:18:33 PM)
I would say it HAS to be something You ARE and not just something You DO. If it doesn't come as second nature then You won't stick with it, it will fall by the wayside at some point.

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