RE: Master's Code of Ethics (Full Version)

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IBused -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 4:38:26 PM)

Dood, have you actually seen the "Ethics committee in D.C.?"   Ethics? WTF.....how about the I trust you, you trust me committee...now that's a concept.
Ethics come from the heart and the lessons learned from child rearing.and the institutes your parents instilled upon you..not from a Dom who dicktates, or lactates....in my humble opinion.




SubOnlyForHim -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/6/2009 6:18:45 PM)



quote:

quote:

If he needed to write out a code of ethics, I'd assume he didn't live by them.

There is nothing wrong with writing it down and trying to gain a perspective of oneself. Perhaps if people actually took the time to think about it a bit and wrote them down, we could have better discussion on the matter.

If given any thought, I am sure a mans personal ethics would at take up a page at the very least. I have only seen ONE poster who has been able to articulate his beliefs outside of a few words. I think if you polled many of the Masters or those who identify as such at a fetish event, and asked them what their personal code of ethics are, you would get a lot of blank stares.

Aramis Duval




Wouldn't that be like a journal? i mean uh...it's not like You'd post it on the wall for everyone to read right?




DesFIP -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/8/2009 4:51:48 AM)

The problem with having to gain a perspective is that it means you don't have it yet. And that would make me very nervous if you had to keep referring to a page to see if what you think is something you should or shouldn't do. The hard work of becoming who you are should have been done before you took on responsibility for someone else.




wudazhi1980 -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/25/2009 11:46:03 PM)

老子《道德经》第七十四章
      
laozi "daodejing" Chapter 74

【原文】

民不畏死,奈何以死惧之?若使民常畏死,而为奇者,吾得执而杀之,孰敢?常有司杀者杀。夫代司杀者杀,是谓代大匠斲,夫代大匠斲者,希有不伤其手矣。



【ENGLISH】

The people do not fear death; to what purpose is it to (try to) frighten them with death? If the people were always in awe of death, and I could always seize those who do wrong, and put them to death, who would dare to do wrong?

There is always One who presides over the infliction death. He who would inflict death in the room of him who so presides over it may be described as hewing wood instead of a great carpenter. Seldom is it that he who undertakes the hewing, instead of the great carpenter, does not cut his own hands!




MasterAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/26/2009 3:49:33 PM)

Greetings Malkinius,

I apologize for not responding to you in a more timely manner. This thread is over a year old and I thought it was regulated to the void. But getting back to your questions, the latter one intrigued me a bit.

quote:

Secondarily, ask how can you tell what someone's ethics are from how they behave in a BDSM context?


I can only speak for myself, but for me there is no difference. I am not a traditional BDSM practitioner so perhaps I don't understand your question, but are you saying that a man can have two sets of ethical codes? One for his vanilla pursuits and one for his BDSM interests? Based on my own view point, and I speak for myself ONLY, how I act is who I am no matter what hat I am wearing at that particular moment.

As it relates to the first part of your question:

quote:

how do you know that someone actually lives according to the ethics, if any, they profess?


Again this is challenging question; Do we ever really know what is in a man's heart? The only way to really tell is by watching and observing his actions. But then one could argue that we are measuring him by our own set of values and not his own.

By the way the OP did get somewhat convoluted, but the intent of the thread was to ask MEN by what ethical code do they live their lives; if there was some common thread that dictated their actions.

Again thank you for the response!

Aramis




masterlink65 -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/26/2009 5:19:45 PM)

my ethics are part of what i am. a part that doesnt change like the rest of the uncontrollable things around me. changes come quick. running two businesses. having two residence, things change quick. plans change quick. off the cuff decisions about what is most important to fix. refrigerator or stove.

my values. my ethics. are me. dont change. unwritten. law




MilkSadist -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/27/2009 9:06:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

Before I begin, I am directing this question to those Masters who are part of a Master and slave dynamic. Secondly, i am not here to impose my views on anyone but to try to gain an understanding of what others do.

Many professions operate on a published Code of Ethics, Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants etc. Many Masters that I know of, operate on a Personal Code of Ethics, including myself. It dictates how I run my life and be the man that I am. Of late I have become curious as to whether my ethical approach to myself as well as to how I manage my property is similar or dissimilar to others. So I would like to know if indeed you have this? Did you write it out or is it just something you are?

Sincerely,

Aramis Duval


It is my unfortunate experience that people in this lifestyle, be they dom or sub, do not have any real ethics. Ethics and the lifestyle seem to be mutually exlusive terms. I have yet to meet one dom or sub that would not stab another in the back in a heartbeat. Actually having ethics, I can't help feeling out of place around other's in the lifestyle, particularly dominants.




Acer49 -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/28/2009 2:02:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

Before I begin, I am directing this question to those Masters who are part of a Master and slave dynamic. Secondly, i am not here to impose my views on anyone but to try to gain an understanding of what others do.

Many professions operate on a published Code of Ethics, Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants etc. Many Masters that I know of, operate on a Personal Code of Ethics, including myself. It dictates how I run my life and be the man that I am. Of late I have become curious as to whether my ethical approach to myself as well as to how I manage my property is similar or dissimilar to others. So I would like to know if indeed you have this? Did you write it out or is it just something you are?

Sincerely,

Aramis Duval



I have never written anything out, it is just who I am. Should someome which to know something that involves ethics, I have no problem answering them




MasterAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/28/2009 5:19:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MilkSadist
It is my unfortunate experience that people in this lifestyle, be they dom or sub, do not have any real ethics. Ethics and the lifestyle seem to be mutually exlusive terms. I have yet to meet one dom or sub that would not stab another in the back in a heartbeat. Actually having ethics, I can't help feeling out of place around other's in the lifestyle, particularly dominants.


I don't even know what to say to this LOL! I think you need to get some better friends in order to gain some positive experience. Yes, I will agree there are a number of folks who may deserve this comment, but I can't imagine that it is dire as you say and I do know many first hand that I would consider respectable and highly ethical.

Good luck!

Aramis




MilkSadist -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/29/2009 11:37:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis


quote:

ORIGINAL: MilkSadist
It is my unfortunate experience that people in this lifestyle, be they dom or sub, do not have any real ethics. Ethics and the lifestyle seem to be mutually exlusive terms. I have yet to meet one dom or sub that would not stab another in the back in a heartbeat. Actually having ethics, I can't help feeling out of place around other's in the lifestyle, particularly dominants.


I don't even know what to say to this LOL! I think you need to get some better friends in order to gain some positive experience. Yes, I will agree there are a number of folks who may deserve this comment, but I can't imagine that it is dire as you say and I do know many first hand that I would consider respectable and highly ethical.

Good luck!

Aramis


I have yet to meet one person in real life in the lifesytle that's remotely 'respectful'. Perhaps we have different views on what the word means. Maybe you consider trying to steel another Dom's sub respectful. Or perhaps lies and cheating are ethical in your ethical schema. Or maybe you've just been lucky so far.




BKSir -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/29/2009 11:49:43 AM)

I never really considered writing anything down.  I just live my life as I do day to day.  I don't differentiate between how I interact or what have you based on if I'm in the bedroom or a restaurant or wherever.  I try to be understanding and fair, and at the same time in control of the situation, whatever situation it is, without being too overbearing.  I use the term "try" because I do fail at it sometimes, just like everyone does.  No one is perfect.  But it doesn't mean I can't strive to become as close as possible.  I want to improve on myself, and become the best I can be at whatever I do, and that's precisely what I ask of those around me.  Is that a "code of ethics"?  I can't say for sure, it's hard to distinguish it for me, as it's simply a part of every day life for me.




MasterAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/29/2009 12:05:40 PM)

quote:

I have yet to meet one person in real life in the lifesytle that's remotely 'respectful'. Perhaps we have different views on what the word means. Maybe you consider trying to steel another Dom's sub respectful. Or perhaps lies and cheating are ethical in your ethical schema. Or maybe you've just been lucky so far.


You know what's not respectful? Dumping everyone you meet into the same bucket of whatever previous experience you may have had. You are just as bad as those that you claim to be disrespectful. Why are you even here if you feel that way about us?

And do you even know what my definition of the term is? If not, I wouldn't rush to judgement.

Good luck to you.

Aramis




LadyPact -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/29/2009 12:12:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MilkSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis


quote:

ORIGINAL: MilkSadist
It is my unfortunate experience that people in this lifestyle, be they dom or sub, do not have any real ethics. Ethics and the lifestyle seem to be mutually exlusive terms. I have yet to meet one dom or sub that would not stab another in the back in a heartbeat. Actually having ethics, I can't help feeling out of place around other's in the lifestyle, particularly dominants.


I don't even know what to say to this LOL! I think you need to get some better friends in order to gain some positive experience. Yes, I will agree there are a number of folks who may deserve this comment, but I can't imagine that it is dire as you say and I do know many first hand that I would consider respectable and highly ethical.

Good luck!

Aramis


I have yet to meet one person in real life in the lifesytle that's remotely 'respectful'. Perhaps we have different views on what the word means. Maybe you consider trying to steel another Dom's sub respectful. Or perhaps lies and cheating are ethical in your ethical schema. Or maybe you've just been lucky so far.


In that case, I guess I've been very lucky.  I've been very fortunate to know lifestyle folks who have had the highest moral character.

One thing I do have to say here though.  A person can not be stolen.  If someone is taken away so easily, they really weren't yours to begin with.




MasterAramis -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/29/2009 12:14:12 PM)

Very nicely said!

quote:

If someone is taken away so easily, they really weren't yours to begin with.




xssve -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/29/2009 12:36:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: skeletoncrew

i did like the idea of defining what ethics are exactly, so we have SOME idea of what we are talking about:

ethics
–plural noun 1.(used with a singular or plural verb[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture. 2.the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics. 3.moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence. 4.(usually used with a singular verb[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

A code of ethics defines values, standards and principles, and defines the manner in which you strive to live your life.  I suppose you could have an "unethical" code of ethics, although that seems to defeat the purpose as well as being an oxymoron.

Hence the reason my brain hurts.


this might blow your mind a little bit and make it hurt some more, but for example Adolf Hilter WAS an ethical person...since "rightness", "wrongness", "badness", and "goodness" are 100% COMPLETELY subjective...sorry to blow your mind, but one CAN be an "evil" person and be COMPLETELY moral and ethical, it is all relative...and since i am talking about nazis don't get me started on the so-called "medical ethics" of the doctors that readily helped and supported the Third Reich all over Europe(and people wonder why i don't trust doctors)...

No. Morals are how you conduct yourself and are subjective and relativistic - ethics are how your behavior affects other people, and are are objectively analyzable.

Morals can be ethical or not, but if you examine ethical systems long enough, you'll realize that ethics are a simple cost benefit ratio: simply, how are the costs and benefits of a given act distributed?

The more symmetrical the cost benefit ratio, the more ethical the act - and symmetrical doesn't always mean "even"; i.e., when you take a job you negotiate for a certain level of compensation in return for performing certain duties - it makes no difference how uneven the split is if it happens to be mutually agreeable to both parties.

To shift the costs of behavior that benefits you onto others, against their will, is unethical.

Hitler benefited from the Holocaust, the Jews provided a common enemy for the Germans to unite against, which helped Hitler to consolidate his power - but the Jews bore the cost of that act asymmetrically (to put it mildly), thus, the act is unethical.

In fact, eventually, the entire German people ended up paying the cost of devoting critical infrastructure to eradicating the bulk of their skilled labor pool, and as is often the case in unethical practices, ended up badly compromising their own fitness as a group.






thishereboi -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (10/29/2009 5:12:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MilkSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

Before I begin, I am directing this question to those Masters who are part of a Master and slave dynamic. Secondly, i am not here to impose my views on anyone but to try to gain an understanding of what others do.

Many professions operate on a published Code of Ethics, Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants etc. Many Masters that I know of, operate on a Personal Code of Ethics, including myself. It dictates how I run my life and be the man that I am. Of late I have become curious as to whether my ethical approach to myself as well as to how I manage my property is similar or dissimilar to others. So I would like to know if indeed you have this? Did you write it out or is it just something you are?

Sincerely,

Aramis Duval


It is my unfortunate experience that people in this lifestyle, be they dom or sub, do not have any real ethics. Ethics and the lifestyle seem to be mutually exlusive terms. I have yet to meet one dom or sub that would not stab another in the back in a heartbeat. Actually having ethics, I can't help feeling out of place around other's in the lifestyle, particularly dominants.


Well if that is true then maybe you should change the places you go and the people you hang out with. In my experience the people you describe are in the minority.




MilkSadist -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (11/13/2009 10:10:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


In that case, I guess I've been very lucky.  I've been very fortunate to know lifestyle folks who have had the highest moral character.

One thing I do have to say here though.  A person can not be stolen.  If someone is taken away so easily, they really weren't yours to begin with.



First of all I said tried, not succeeded. so your statement is hardly relative. Try reading more closely next time. Second of all, this is a great example of the lack of ethics from people who claim to have them. Rather than acknowledge something was wrong, in this particular example that you responded to going behind others back in an attempt to undermine a relationship, you prefer to simply justify it, and on a misconception no less. Thank you for the prime example of a lack of morals. And the same for you aramis; you claim to have ethics then you support a statment like this.




MilkSadist -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (11/13/2009 10:18:28 AM)

[




mnottertail -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (11/13/2009 10:46:01 AM)

well, no.......not even close, their ethics, and they have them, do not coincide with yours, is all.

I could talk alot about this, but I can see it would be of little value to do so.

Ron




Malkinius -> RE: Master's Code of Ethics (11/14/2009 12:17:07 AM)

{fast reply}

Greetings all...

Just a quick comment on something I saw. It is impossible to have an unethical ethics system. Even if the ethics require you to violate them, that is still following them. <grins> It is the same way that no part of a constitution can be unconstitutional.

Be well....

Malkinius




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