RE: Religion

RE: Religion (Full Version)

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yoursMaam -> RE: Religion (8/17/2004 10:53:57 AM)
quote: Now, assuming we all believe in one or the other. Who's to say which one is the "true belief"? Each comes from a different culture. Each has a large following. Each has it's good points and teaches decent behaviors. My point is, NONE of the above can be physically proven. So, you can't really rule out one in favor of another. Try accepting them all. to paraphrase my catholic upbringing "in My Father's House there are many rooms." if you require proof for your faith, here's what can you prove. 1. that you have a mind which perceives things 2. that things are perceived. There is not too much more that can be "proven". If that is all that there is, then by perceiving things, you created your world. (in most religions that makes you God.) You must perceive something for it to exist. (this makes you Omnipotent, and Omniscient) Before you perceived of things they did not exist, and when you stop perceiving things, they stop existing. (As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be.) Because you perceived each and all of the religions, then they are each a true faith. God made us in his own image... How much closer can you get? "Sometimes you go away, but I am always here."

Thanatosian -> RE: Religion (8/17/2004 11:35:30 AM)
quote: quote: And that he was till the day he died a virgin~~ Im trying to think of the historical scholar who claimed to prove that Jesus actually lived with Mary Magdelene (in sin) and the whole "Christ was a virgin" thing was disseminated by the Apostle Paul, a flagrant misogynist. I wish my stupid books were not in storage. am not sure if he is a historical scholar or not, but this was in The DaVinci Code by Dan Brown

yoursMaam -> RE: Religion (8/17/2004 1:40:34 PM)
Thanatosian, Is that the same book that claimed that Jesus' body was entombed at the Vatican?

knees2you -> RE: Religion (8/17/2004 6:07:18 PM)
The diference between the true religion and the false religions is with out shadow of a doubt LOVE. God is Love. What other religion can declare you can go to heaven simply by accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and not by works lest any man should boast. What other religion claimes that your sins will be forgiven you simply by asking God for forgiveness. What other religion asks us to do the right thing when the wrong thing is done to us. There is only one (Christianity). and the difference is the dependence on God and not on our own abilities to make things happen for ourselves. Even A well Known Athiest, Professor Richard Dawkins says, That the World could not have come by Chance~~ Sincerely, Anthony~ quote: "It's funny how we can see, Yet we are still blind~"

SherriA -> RE: Religion (8/17/2004 9:26:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you I watched a special on the History channel and they could not dispute that Jesus existed. I don't think anyone disputes that Jesus existed. Some of us question the veracity of a virgin birth or a diety in human form. Jesus was a great philosopher and a significant teacher. But the son of God? I don't even believe in "god" per se, so believing that he/she/it lived on earth as a human is more of a stretch than my brain can make.

Sinergy -> RE: Religion (8/17/2004 10:58:03 PM)
quote: am not sure if he is a historical scholar or not, but this was in The DaVinci Code by Dan Brown He may have made reference to it, but I read about it in high school back in the day. Sinergy

compes -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 12:47:37 AM)
Okay, this is probably not the forum for discussions like this - try www.infidels.org. There is a lovely forum there for those non-believers, or for those who wish to attempt to 'save' non-believers. Fair warning – these people are SHARP! If you haven’t done your homework first – they’ll tear you up. As for me, yes, I doubt Jesus’ existence - as do a great many other people, some who are learned scholars. Was there a Jesus? <shrug> Sure, why not? Jesus was a popular name. Jesus son of Joseph would also be a popular combination. Shoot, there is a Jesus Ramirez where I work - but I don't think he's the son of (a) God. Was there a Christ? No. There wasn't. That would assume the existence of a biblical god, and I see no proof of such a being. Is God Love? If I believed in such a being I would want him to be at least neutral to us. But I would have to say that the old testament argues AGAINST a loving god. Explain the Midianites. As for something being shown on the Discovery channel as being the 'true' - I say bullshit. Discovery channel often shows biased, unproved shows for the same reason as any other mass-media outlet - for profit. Having a show that 'disproves' Jesus wouldn't sell very well. You have a book on cults? So do I. I have a bookshelf full of ‘em – along with 9 different bibles, the Quoran, and several feet of books that basically demolish the bible. (the psychology of science, pseudoscience, and religion are a hobby for me. It comes from being born in an odd town.) Can I DISPROVE God? Nope. Sure can’t. I also can’t disprove dragons, invisible pink unicorns, or Thor. But I don’t worship them either. Over 70% of America is Christian of one sect or another (some of ‘em are darned strange too!) So if you were born and raised in America the chances of you being Christian are pretty darned good. If you had been born in another country, say Iran, the chances of you being Islamic would be pretty darned good. The two religions are mutually incompatible. Each says the followers of the other are going to Hell (or at least NOT going to heaven) If there IS a loving god, he has automatically damned a great many people, just for being in the wrong geographic area. Islamic fundamentalists scare the crap outta me – these people can be brainwashed by their leaders into being human bombs. But Christian fundamentalists also scare me. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell – I see little difference from these people and Osama. Robertson advocates nuking Washington and replacing our Democracy with a Theocracy, Falwell says that anyone who is not born again is a failure as a human, that AIDS is God’s punishment on AMERICA for harboring gay people. And then our presidents listen to this crap and say stupid things. There is a trend in America that I find fascinating. The “Cafeteria Christian.” These are the people who take what they want out of the bible, and ignore the rest. I don’t understand how a Christian could do that and still call themselves devout. The biggest bit of cafeteria nonsense I see are those Christians who believe in Heaven, but not in Hell - which is a heresy that would have had them jailed in Boston in the late 1600's. Lastly, there is a lot of stuff that gets slung at me by the religious intolerant in hateful tones. I’ll answer a few of ‘em now to save a bit of time: Yes, I read the bible – I’ve studied it for years. Which part do you want explained? No, I won’t move to another country – one of my rights as an American is free speech. Another right is the ability to work within our government to change it. No, majority does NOT rule in America – if it did, Gore would be president! Minorities are protected in America, get your history teacher to explain that to you. Better yet, get the son or daughter of a slave to explain it to you. No, I won’t sit quietly and respectfully while you advertise your religion – not as long as your religion does not return the favor. Yes, you can pray for me if you like - it won't hurt or help, but I'll appreciate the gesture. Let me know you're doing it and I'll keep you in my thoughts too. Yes, I'll admit that I sometimes sound hateful- it is due to me being insulted over and over again, it is due to having political leaders who dismiss me. I'll treat individuals with respect automatically, and expect that in return. If I don't get it, I'll "brush the dust from my sandals" and keep on going. Compes For those who I've offended, I apologize. I'd be glad to talk with you about your faith if you are still interested. As I've said, the psychology of religion is a fascinating hobby. And yes, I know I have odd hobbies - but then on this board, who doesn't??

darkinshadows -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 3:23:42 AM)
quote: As for me, yes, I doubt Jesus’ existence - as do a great many other people, some who are learned scholars. There is more documented proof that Jesus (as a man) existed than there is that Caeser did, just a little information...[;)] quote: Islamic fundamentalists scare the crap outta me – these people can be brainwashed by their leaders into being human bombs. But Christian fundamentalists also scare me. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell – I see little difference from these people and Osama. Robertson advocates nuking Washington and replacing our Democracy with a Theocracy, Falwell says that anyone who is not born again is a failure as a human, that AIDS is God’s punishment on AMERICA for harboring gay people. I guess all Angel can say upon this matter is that... none of these people scare me. But that doesnt mean I have to follow their ideals either. Fear is nothing more than a control mechanism. And Its Angels choice not to be Dominated by anything or anyone I do not submit to. Am I saddened by their choices? Yes. Do I allow their behaviour to control my movements, my thoughts, my fears? No. There are and will be extremists in every religion, in every walk of life, in every community and in every country. But I, as a person, will not allow them to frighten my world. quote: There is a trend in America that I find fascinating. The “Cafeteria Christian.” These are the people who take what they want out of the bible, and ignore the rest. I don’t understand how a Christian could do that and still call themselves devout. The biggest bit of cafeteria nonsense I see are those Christians who believe in Heaven, but not in Hell - Again... the same can be said for any religion and any community... (even BDSM!) Does that make them wrong?... Does it make them right?... I can't answer that. Because it isnt my place. Freedom of individual thought is something to be cherished. Freedom of ones own will is something to be upheld. It isn't up to me as an to judge, that is what God will do. The world is full of assumtions and inuendos. It this, combined with the fear and the need to be powerful and the desire for 'more, more, more' that creates wars and unrest. It isnt God... or gods... or goddesses... or satan... or the devil... or whatever spiritual force one wishes to blame. That's just called 'passing the buck'. What would You want to call me? What do I call myself? smiles... I may be a 'Christian'... but thats just another label... (which I havent asked for). I am just a woman, loved by God... following His teachings the only way I know how. As myself.

kiki blue -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 3:39:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you This is a look at some of the Cults presiding in the World today! The thing about Christianity, is that it can viewed as a sect or cult as well. It's an offshoot of what was going on at the time. quote: Christians know that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. This is something I've always disagreed with. A newborn child has no sins. The acts of its parents bear no reflection upon the child, to me. A child can't help but be born. I am not a sinner just by being born. I do not need to be 'saved'. I don't agree with what constitues 'sinning' - I'm just having a good time. As long as I live by my morals and ethics - some of which may be borrowed from various belief systems - then I know I'm doing ok. I can't stand by any religion that has so much evil done in its name, or thrives on hypocrisy.

darkinshadows -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 3:49:51 AM)
quote: The diference between the true religion and the false religions is with out shadow of a doubt LOVE. God is Love. Alot of other religions embrace love within their teachings, not just Christianity. quote: What other religion can declare you can go to heaven simply by accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and not by works lest any man should boast Just because One believes in Jesus as ones Lord and that He died for Our sins.... doesnt mean you will automatically get a heaven pass. quote: What other religion claimes that your sins will be forgiven you simply by asking God for forgiveness. Yes... within christianity... this will happen... but not just you simply 'ask'... You have to mean it... deep down... Otherwise You would get people... doing things first then 'confessing' them latter... that doesnt work. And its this kind of reference that makes a mockery of Gods teachings. quote: What other religion asks us to do the right thing when the wrong thing is done to us. Ummmmm... quite a few actually. In fact... too many to list. quote: and the difference is the dependence on God and not on our own abilities to make things happen for ourselves. Sure, I depend on God. He is my Rock, my salvation, my Lover, my Friend, my Father... But He also gave me free will. So yes, I do depend upon my own abilities as well. Alot of what You have said, from a Chrisitan point of view, is true... but also, there are many ill-informed statements. A person can't 'rally for God' with false teachings and judgements that we as Gods children are not permitted to make? One has to read, consume and become self informed and self aware before trying to convert with blasphamy.(yikes, does that sound harsh?)[&:] I do understand Your point, but personally, I do not feel You are putting out Your message very clearly.

SentForu -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 5:27:38 AM)
I'm sorry ya'll, but I have to wholeheartedly agree with compres. I do believe that Jesus existed, just not in Christ form. A rather good teacher, of course. Exactly, I don't see a God who is loving. Just look at the Exodus and all the years wondering in the wilderness. They complained about wanting meat, ended up being punished. There are many, many examples of a "not so loving God". Before someone says I'm looking to blame a higher power for all the injustice in the world, I'm not. I don't believe, therefore can't blame someone I don't think exists. Christianity is Biblically based. If you're a devout Christian, you can't take bits and pieces of it to your liking. That would be hypocritical. I don't care how many examples you give me of near miracles, there are coincidences everyday. Do they prove or disprove God? In my opinion, no. No offence intended, but it seems hypocritical to profess to be a Christian, and be on this board period. This is a BDSM board. You have all sorts of kinks, homosexuals, fornication....etc. I'm not saying those are wrong, I have some myself. But, if you compare it to the Christian Bible, we are all going to Hell. You can believe all you want, but when it's all broken down, just believing isn't enough. You have to live it as well. Now, I'm just going by what the Bible tells me. I don't believe, therefore it doesn't bother me. Just throughing it out there for those who are on here "witnessing". Sorry if I have offended in any way. It is not intentional. Ya'll take care, Myra

darkinshadows -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 6:59:27 AM)
quote: Exactly, I don't see a God who is loving. Just look at the Exodus and all the years wondering in the wilderness That was a freedom of choice. If I moaned and was dis-satisfied... that is my free will. And I have to accept the consequences. quote: There are many, many examples of a "not so loving God". In Your opinion, I do not doubt there is. But In Angels opinion, there is not. But there are many, many examples of an extremely loving God(IMO). quote: Christianity is Biblically based. If you're a devout Christian, you can't take bits and pieces of it to your liking. At the risk of sounding corny... Amen to that!...[;)] quote: I don't care how many examples you give me of near miracles, there are coincidences everyday. If a coincidence is something that saves a life, or makes something better... then I do believe in miracles. quote: No offence intended, but it seems hypocritical to profess to be a Christian, and be on this board period. This is a BDSM board. You have all sorts of kinks, homosexuals, fornication....etc. I'm not saying those are wrong, I have some myself. But, if you compare it to the Christian Bible, we are all going to Hell. None taken [:)]... in fact the same could be said for anyone practising any religion being on this board, be it christian, buddist, muslim... the list goes on and on. But in my life..I am involved in BDSM with my husband. To label anyone and everyone who paticipates in BDSM activities as immoral or purely gaining sexual kicks from within it is something I personally would not be comfortable with. Its not up to me to judge what other people do. Sure, there are things in BDSM which within christianity (and many other religions)would be seen as a 'sin', but does that mean that the whole BDSM Community is immoral?...Is BDSM in itself immoral? Does everyone in BDSM activities practice rape play?... polygamy?... group fornication? No. To assume that all people within BDSM itself are immoral is the same as saying that all followers of Islam kill... or all Jewish Peoples are mean with money.... or that all buddists meditate for at least 8 hours a day without fail... or all Christians are self righteous... or that all cheesemakers are blessed... (sorry, I just had to slip in Monty Pyton somewhere...[:D]) I guess my feeling is that... some people believe... some don't... and everyone has different belief systems. Generalization is a dangerous thing(IMO)... People can't be grouped or generalized just because of what they claim their God is. I know some pain in the arse self opinionated christians... and some arrogant buddists... and some radical muslims... but I also know some Christians open to opinions of others... some selfless buddists and some peaceful, non offensive Muslims. Religion is a man made concept. God isnt just some book. To me He is all around, in everything I do... in everything that I see,taste, hear and touch. I know that life is full of lessons to be learned from... and that people won't always understand that part of me... just as I dont understand exactly where someone else is coming from. But I can listen and hear.... and be enlightened by their thoughts and see & accept them for who and what they are as I would wish to be by others... But the most important thing I try to do is I Love Unconditionally.

Thanatosian -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 9:52:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yoursMaam Thanatosian, Is that the same book that claimed that Jesus' body was entombed at the Vatican? not that I recall - as I remember it, it was the disciple Peter that was buried under the vatican, and Mary Magdalena (depicted as Jesus wife and mother of his children) was buried under the French museum

SentForu -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 1:00:20 PM)
No, no, no...lol. I don't think the BDSM community is immoral at all. Most of the acts are taught against in various religions. In my opinion, do what you want, as long as no one gets hurt and you can wake up to yourself every morning. I look down on no one. I have just as many, if not more, faults as the next person. Meaning, I try not to condemn. I just through my observations out there. Ya'll take care, Myra

compes -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 5:50:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dark~angel There is more documented proof that Jesus (as a man) existed than there is that Caeser did, just a little information...[;)] Thank you angel. Please quote your sources of 'proof' for me so that I may learn. Compes.

compes -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 5:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dark~angel quote: There is a trend in America that I find fascinating. The “Cafeteria Christian.” These are the people who take what they want out of the bible, and ignore the rest. I don’t understand how a Christian could do that and still call themselves devout. The biggest bit of cafeteria nonsense I see are those Christians who believe in Heaven, but not in Hell - Again... the same can be said for any religion and any community... (even BDSM!) Does that make them wrong?... Does it make them right?... As myself. No, angel, it just makes them "Unchristian". Either you follow the rules, or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose God's or Jesus' message. Put it into BDSM terms. Your loving Master has given you a list of things to do in order for him to reward you. You don't get to go down that list and pick and choose. If you want the reward, you have to do it all. I have no problem with any person taking the good of the bible and leaving the bad - Jefferson did that when he re-wrote the new testament to suit himself. But you can't be a Christian by ignoring some of Jesus's teachings - any more than you can be just a little bit pregnant. Compes

knees2you -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 6:17:07 PM)
well we have been talking soo much about whether or not Jesus or His Father Existed, I thought We could talk about His advisary~ One of the Chief Angles in Heaven thought that he could over throw God. He took a Third of the Angles form Heaven and tried to over throw Him. To bad for him, he lost out. Yes I'm speaking about the devil. lucifer. satan. I watched a program a lontime ago, a late night talk show. On it was one of the leading satanists. He was discussing on how someone could sell there sole to satan. I would tell You how he mentioned to do it, but then like Jesus nobody really believes, or they find it hard to believe, that He existed. I have friends that use to take every kind of Drug out there. One use to take an inject Airplane fluid. The peace that he Finally found was when he Gave His life up to the Lord. I've never seen anything or felt anything that would take You away from something so Dark, like Jesus Christ~ Sincerely, Anthony quote: "It's funny that we can see, Yet we are still blind~"

SentForu -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 7:01:57 PM)
knees2you, I did the exact same thing about 4 years ago. I was one of those druggies. I stopped too. Then I became a devout Christian. I taught Children's Church, was there everytime the doors opened. Then, after a lot of soul searching, I wrestled with it for many months, finding I couldn't force myself to believe anymore. Now, I had found peace, no more drugs. But, I have been out of the faith for about a year now, still no more drugs. Did that come from myself, or an outside force? In short, I have been drug free for over four years now. That came out of love for my children, and I needed to feel better about myself. Maybe your friend is the same, maybe not. At any rate, it's great that he has overcome that. Reguardless of the means he used to get there. Myra

knees2you -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 7:55:22 PM)
Angel, God himself said fear no man but me~ Considering what He can do, I do fear Him~~ Sincerely, Anthony[;)] quote: "It's funny how we can see, Yet we are still blind~"

Sinergy -> RE: Religion (8/18/2004 8:33:32 PM)
quote: Was there a Jesus? <shrug> Sure, why not? Jesus was a popular name. Jesus son of Joseph would also be a popular combination. Shoot, there is a Jesus Ramirez where I work - but I don't think he's the son of (a) God. "Nobody fucks with the Jesus" John Turturro, The Big Lebowski.

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