RE: Religion (Full Version)

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compes -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 7:08:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Newflowers, as i mentioned in the old Testament,
God states that his word is Law and His word can not be Broken.

But if You want to Believe in Transedentalists,
Then Your life is in Your hands, Not the Creator.

Someone show me proof of the Big bang Theory???
Not gonna Happen.

Even Professor Richard r. Dawkins a leading Atheist. {For most leading Atheist. Say's And I Quote~~} We could not have gotten here by chance~

Sincerely, Anthony[;)]



Your quote of Dawkins is not quite correct. Let's put it into context, shall we? From The Improbability of God


quote:

We can safely conclude that living bodies are billions of times too complicated - too statistically improbable - to have come into being by sheer chance. How, then, did they come into being? The answer is that chance enters into the story, but not a single, monolithic act of chance. Instead, a whole series of tiny chance steps, each one small enough to be a believable product of its predecessor, occurred one after the other in sequence. These small steps of chance are caused by genetic mutations, random changes - mistakes really - in the genetic material. They give rise to changes in the existing bodily structure. Most of these changes are deleterious and lead to death. A minority of them turn out to be slight improvements, leading to increased survival and reproduction. By this process of natural selection, those random changes that turn out to be beneficial eventually spread through the species and become the norm.


Would you like to talk about un-provable things? Then I think we should also talk about the existence of the utmost holy Invisible Pink Unicorn


As for proof of the big bang - well, there is a LOT of evidence that the universe that we inhabit started out very small once. How small is currently being debated - there are proponents of a big bang, and a newer group that seems to have better evidence of a 'big whoosh' - based on string theory. If you're interested, see the article in the Scientific American Magazine.

I don't think it would be wise for you to start knocking the theories that science uses to explain and understand the world - these theories keep your house heated, your car running, and your computer connected to the Internet. Besides, if scientific principles can be so easily discarded because they are "only theories" then too can biblical "theories." For instance, it is easily arguable that the creation story in Genesis is only a 'theory'.

quote:

Now, it is important for us to understand that no one was actually present at the creation so we don't really know what happened. Genesis 1:1-3 is only a theory, and as such cannot be treated as fact. And it is only fair that I share with you that there are other theories of the creation. For example, some Sumerians and Babylonians, Gilbert Islanders, Koreans, and Greeks believed that the world was created from the parts of a slain monster; some Zuni Indians, Cook Islanders, and Tahitians have a theory that the world was created by the interaction of primordial parents; and some Japanese, Samoan, Persian, Chinese, and Hindu have a theory that the world was generated from an egg." And, of course, there is that dogma being foisted upon us by the liberal media and intelligentsia, the theory of evolution.



Compes



Sinergy -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 7:38:08 PM)

Hello,

quote:


Ok everybody Breath slowly.
Just putting out what I've learned~
I'm not hear to convert by any means.


I am not worried about you trying to convert me. If you were, I would
suggest you approach it from the "faith and belief" standpoint because
the psuedo-science approach to conversion probably wont work with me.

The joy of a degree in history and comparative religion.

quote:


I used to be a Paganist, and a Buddhist~


Not sure Paganist is a word, there are Pagans and Wiccans.

JM, CBW, BTYG

Sinergy



compes -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 7:57:00 PM)

Angel, I don't think that any religion is made of people who think entirely alike - there is a wide range of beliefs within each religious group. For example, I know liberal Christians who believe in sanctified gay marriage, and I know conservative Christians who are honestly convinced that homosexuals are going to hell. Both of these sets of Christians mine the bible to find ways to support the beliefs that they already hold. "God's Word" is used to approve both group's agendas.

But if I were to logically ask, "What if you're wrong? What if there IS no god?" then I'm usually condemned for making that suggestion. This is a common complaint from non-believers; that we are not allowed to even question someone else's beliefs - as mentioned by Douglas Adams

quote:

Douglas Adams

Now, the invention of the scientific method is, I’m sure we’ll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked. If it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn’t withstand the attack then down it goes.

Religion doesn’t seem to work like that. It has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, “Here is an idea or a notion that you’re not allowed to say anything bad about; you’re just not. Why not? — because you’re not!”

If somebody votes for a party that you don’t agree with, you’re free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it. But on the other hand if somebody says “I mustn’t move a light switch on a Saturday,” you say, “I respect that.”


kiki blue
I don't like people trying to force their religion on me either - especially when they get very sanctimonious about it. I don't mean the door-to-door people, I just tell them the truth, that I'm Atheist. (Most religious people at my door seem to flee when I say that, which I find a bit baffling. I look very average - maybe I should change deoderants?)

I find it disturbing that the religious are allowed to attack my convictions and call it "Witnessing" but if I question or disprove their beliefs, I'm called a "Heretic."

What bothers me the most are those who say, "Why do you hate God" or "you know it's true, you're just denying it." Or the one that I hear the most, "Every knee will bow - even yours". I know that there is no possibility of discussion here, but it is still very difficult to be the better person, and just nod and walk away.

I realize that I get a lot of this due to the very conservative area where I live. I would love to be surrounded by "live and let live" people.


LadyShoshin
My sympathies - I too have a very conservative, religious parent - my father. I haven't told him anything about my religious beliefs, or about BDSM. Neither has my gay atheist sister. He still thinks we are loyal Christians, which we were at one time. He is old, and happy in his life, and I think it would be immoral to tell him about us due to the unhappiness and worry it would cause him.

I didn't realize that Wicca has the same sort of "better than thou" attitudes between peoples or sects - I should have known - people are people. Maybe I've just never met a Wiccan that was petty towards me - all my experiences have been positive.


Compes



LadyShoshin -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 8:00:23 PM)

The two sure things to stir people up are politics and religion and nope, paganist isn't a word, I know 'cause I are one. *lol*

I don't think anyone is here to "convert" anyone, I think we are here for a free exchange of ideas and opinions with BDSM at the core. Of course this is the off topic board, so this discussion is in the right place.

I was a sole practioner with a bias against Wicca because of the people I had met, it wasn't until I lived with 2 Wiccans, shared some coven time with them & learned that there is room in Wicca for Shamanism, that I chose to step into Wicca and took my first vows. I wasn't converted to Shamanism, from what I know of my preschool self I was born to be a Shaman, I just needed the right teacher.

Words on a message board are not going to convince anyone to change their strongly held belief systems, but maybe we can share a bit of ourselves so we all grow a bit.



compes -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 8:05:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin
Words on a message board are not going to convince anyone to change their strongly held belief systems, but maybe we can share a bit of ourselves so we all grow a bit.


Amen! [:D]

Compes



SentForu -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 8:28:56 PM)

LadyShoshin,
Would you mind giving me some of the details and beliefs of Wicca?

Thanks,

Myra



LadyShoshin -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 8:40:45 PM)

There are several permutations of Wicca, as there are of Christianity, the one I was accepted into is Alexandrian. Try http://paganwiccan.about.com/ for some information. Also try http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm and of course http://wiccanet.com/ They can give you the information far better than I could. Also I don't feel that going into details of my beliefs is appropriate on a board where there are people who wouldn't care for it to take up their bandwidth. Oh yes, in case you hadn't guessed, respect and informed consent are as important in Wicca as in BDSM. *grin*
quote:

ORIGINAL: SentForu

LadyShoshin,
Would you mind giving me some of the details and beliefs of Wicca?

Thanks,

Myra



SentForu -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 9:09:11 PM)

LadyShoshin,
Thanks for the sites. Actually, I was interested in learning about it. Not saying I would believe myself, I just like to learn about different cultures and religions.

Thanks again,

Myra



newflowers -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 10:46:48 PM)

quote:

Newflowers, as i mentioned in the old Testament,
God states that his word is Law and His word can not be Broken.

But if You want to Believe in Transedentalists,
Then Your life is in Your hands, Not the Creator.




Anthony, perhaps you'd like to refer to your NT at this time and note where it says that the advent of Jesus and fulfillment of the promise of God supercedes the "law" of the OT.

For the record, transcendentalism is a 19th century philosophy not a religion. I said I teach it and I both like and adhere to the concept of being able to question ones beliefs and having coherent, rational answers to know why you believe what you say/think you believe.

Again, I agree to disagree.

newflowers



knees2you -> RE: Religion (8/22/2004 11:26:43 PM)

[:)]I live in Las Vegas,
Don't make any bones about. "I live in Sin City!"

The day after the Fourth of July I had gotten A money
order form Rent it was $640 dollars.
I wasn't feeling well and thought I had brought the Money order home.
When I went to pay rent the next day, I did not have it.
I couldn't find it. Normally I would have it filled out, but wasn't feeling well.
I had lost that money order, and was told that I probablly would never get it back~

Later that evening I got a message from someone where I had
got the Money order from, and they couldn't believe this being Vegas and all, that Someone had turned it in.

{Praise God~} What I had been doing is known as tithing~

It stopped the Advisary from being able to touch my money~

When my Roomate was told what it could do for Him he was
Skeptical. I told him to Put Gods word to test. Told him to deny God that He won't protect You and Your Money. Till this day He has never been broke~"

{Praise God}

Sincerely, Anthony[:D]

quote:

"It's funny how we can still see and Yet be blind.~"



LadyShoshin -> RE: Religion (8/23/2004 7:17:02 AM)

Believing in it isn't as important as your goal to increase your knowledge. I don't try to convince anyone that they should become Wiccan or follow the Shamanic path, but with solid information, they can choose whichever belief (or nonbelief) system that works best for them.



compes -> RE: Religion (8/23/2004 7:31:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

It stopped the Advisary from being able to touch my money~


Why is it that when people do good, it's "God's Fault." But when people do evil, it is due to their own sinful ways?

Compes



LadyShoshin -> RE: Religion (8/23/2004 7:43:50 AM)

quote:

Why is it that when people do good, it's "God's Fault." But when people do evil, it is due to their own sinful ways?

Compes


Because under some systems of belief God (or however you choose to recognize the Deity) is the ultimate good, incapable of evil intent. While we humans are subject to our Adamic nature, in that leave us alone with perfection and we will somehow manage to disrespect and spoil it. So the idea of all good things coming from a Deity makes sense in that system of belief.



kiki blue -> RE: Religion (8/23/2004 7:52:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: compes
Would you like to talk about un-provable things? Then I think we should also talk about the existence of the utmost holy Invisible Pink Unicorn


I think I've been converted.



dixiedumpling -> RE: Religion (8/23/2004 11:25:06 AM)

knees2you,
I totally disagree with the notion that only Christians have morals. There are plenty of people who profess no religion at all and yet they are very moral people. THIS idea that only Christians can have good intentions is what turns people off. There is value in all religions. Just as atheists can be moral law abiding people, Christians can have bad judgement and end up in jail. You can not make a blanket statement about the character of all people in a particular faith system. People are people. And if you look around, it's not hard to follow the line of reasoning that there's a 'bad seed' in us all.



knees2you -> RE: Religion (8/24/2004 6:33:06 PM)

Just an FYI, The information I got about Richard Dawkins
did not state He was talking about God Exisisting. He was saying that The World could not have come here by Chance. It was to complex.

I've done alot of reaserch and homework~
I made a CD, but that is hear nor there.

Then again nobody on here probablly saw the Passion~

Sincerely, Anthony

quote:

"It's funny we can still see, Yet we are still blind~"



SentForu -> RE: Religion (8/24/2004 6:43:39 PM)

Actually, I saw the Passion. Loved it. It was a well made movie, in my opinion.



compes -> RE: Religion (8/25/2004 12:07:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Just an FYI, The information I got about Richard Dawkins
did not state He was talking about God Exisisting. He was saying that The World could not have come here by Chance. It was to complex.

I've done alot of reaserch and homework~
I made a CD, but that is hear nor there.

Then again nobody on here probablly saw the Passion~

Sincerely, Anthony



Then you have obviously not read enough of Richard Dawkins to understand what he said. The quote that I provided makes no mention of god, only of evolution - contradicting what you say Dawkins has said.

If you are saying that Dawkins believes that life did not arise by chance, you are both right, and very very wrong. Dawkins, along with everyone else who knows evolution to be true, will be the first to admit that no person appeared fully formed out of random particles. Read his book, "The Selfish Gene" to see one possible way out of many that self-assembling particles could create the basics of life.

Compes



LadyShoshin -> RE: Religion (8/25/2004 7:01:41 AM)

Thought for Today
"When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow."
Anais Nin, writer


(in reply to knees2you)



knees2you -> RE: Religion (8/25/2004 11:39:00 AM)

Compes, Well I think You have got all the bases
covered as to why God and Jesus does not exist in Your mind.
Other then the fact that You really haven't mentioned any real reason Why They might Exist.

Last Year I was in the Hospital and was very I'll. At one point the
Devil came to me and said the road I was going down
was going to kill me! He looked me squarely in the face and said
he was going to take me there.

That is when I knew where my belief Really was.

Theres a group called {Danzig} If You listen to there music
You would know that the Devil is alive and well~[&:]
Same with {Slayer} If one exists so does the other~~[:o]

Sincerely, Anthony

quote:

"It is funny that we can still see, Yet we are blind~"



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