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compes -> RE: Religion (9/12/2004 5:04:29 PM)
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ORIGINAL: smile2cu
We seem to assume that Christianity is the only religion in this country. I'm Jewish. Jesus was a practicing Jew. Christianity, as we know it, started after Jesus's death/time on earth. It is quite different from what he/He had in mind.
So let me answer these questions from a Jewish point of view, which, perhaps, would approximate what Jesus would have thought.
I addressed my comments toward Christianity for a couple of reasons. First, I was questioning Knees' religion. Second, in the USA Christianity is the dominant religion. Third, it's the religion that I grew up in, and the one that I know the most about.
Actually, introducing other religions that are older than Christianity offer an excellent example of questions to ask believers in Christianity, and kind of go along with my question about why God would not save those people if they had never heard of Christianity.
A comparable question to ask a Christian would be to ask if Orthodox Jews are going to Heaven? After all, they are following God's laws as laid down by God to Moses.
This question actually had some very personal importance to me at one point. My best friend and his brother are Jewish. (Although never orthodox) As a teen I was worried that they were not going to be 'rewarded' - and I witnessed to them. (Eventually converting my best friend's brother - which has since backfired on me now that I'm Atheist! Ahhh Karma! LOL)
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The Old Testament makes no explicit statement about an afterlife, although many jewish people believed in it. The concept of Hell, comes from the Hebrew Gehenna, which was a garbage dump near Jerusalem, where refuse was burned. Thus the concept is one of being discarded, rather than being punished.
So the was no original need to be "saved." If there is a Heaven the unsaved child goes there, of course.
Hell also comes from Sheol - a 'covered over' place - related to garbage too. (The burying of burned garbage.) It is the New Testament that introduces eternal torture.
But going along with this concept of children getting a free pass to Heaven. If Children can go automatically, then how about the mentally incompetent? You know, the 40 year old with the mind of a child? What about those people who had never even HEARD of the god of the Bible or Torah? I have generations of Choctaw ancestors that this would be important to.
Did Andrea Yate's 5 children go to Heaven automatically? And if so, what does that say about the morality of infanticide?
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All people who follow the moral laws given to Noah, (basic morality), are judged as equal to those who follow jewish (or christian) law.
Not sure why Jesus didn't say anything about slavery. I like to think we're in the process of making the world better than it was then. Anyway, that's supposed to be our job.
With the arrival of Jesus, are we still required to follow the laws of the Old Testament? Jesus and the "Jerusalem Church" said "Yes". Paul found that a difficult sell, and said "No".
God created a real world, not a fairy tale. A world that has free will includes evil.
"Why is it that no biblical prophesy has been demonstrated to be fulfilled?" That's a "When did you stop beating your wife?" type question.
I can think of lots of fulfilled prophesies. But you're right that there's a lot of allegory and exaggeration in there too.
I'll wager if you get any two theological experts together and ask for lists of fulfilled prophesies, you will not only get different lists, but those lists will contradict each other in major ways. And each religous sect with such a list will stridently exclaim that THEY are in the right!
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I think Jesus sincerely believed he might have been the messiah. But in the jewish sense, the annointed one. Not the divine son of God, which came from Hellenistic myth.
Finally, the Bible is not meant to be taken as literally correct. Particularly not in its English translation. It misses Hebrew idiom. It misses what's called Midrash, which is a way of telling a story, which is specifically understood to be fictional. And then there are simply poor translations.
So as an instruction manual for life, it's kinda like a bad Japanese translation of an auto-repair manual.
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Pls choosing the suitable position at random to match with the ear-part of Adapter. But if that Axles are too thick (over-fired) and can’t lower down, that way pls remove the axles with the Bodies together, then can proceed further.
Except that in the case of the Bible, (or the Tanakh) there are words that even the professional translators have lost the meaning to. Plus the possibility of missing words that change the meaning of the text. Plus dueling interpretations of the text - which is why the Jewish have the midrashim and the responsa - storys and answers to questions about the Tanakh.
You would think that an omnipotent God would have the ability to create a book that offers clear cut instructions that would translate correctly into any language. But there are problems with understanding the words in the original language. Who would have thought that God needed an editor?
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Sorry for the long reply. But I hope I may have shed a little light on the subject.
~smile~
I always welcome new viewpoints. But as for light on the subject - my own convictions have focused a high powered spotlight that has answered all of my religous questions to my complete satisfaction.
Compes
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The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
--- Richard Dawkins
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