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RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/7/2008 11:11:35 PM

Brain

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I used to believe the Republican Congress was responsible for Clinton being fiscally conservative but I don't anymore, not after the money they have spent the last eight years. It's absolutely sickening they don't mind cutting people's health care or Medicare but they had no problems with spending on things like the bridge to nowhere until it cost them in the last election. Now they are against spending not because they are fiscally conservative but because they are against anything positive the Democrats would like to do to make life better for the American people.

That's the way the Republican party is now, divisive and contrarian. It's kind of like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said, the Republicans are 100% corrupt and the Democrats are 60% corrupt.

I sure would like to see Robert Kennedy Jr. run for president but I'm sure some nut will probably try to assassinate him.

(in reply to Masternslave07)

Post #: 41

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/7/2008 11:19:45 PM

Brain

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It's the Republican Party that's scary not Keith Olbermann. When you combine your religion and government together that equals fascism. And that's what we have now a fascist American Federal Government. No wonder George Bush is taking away all the rights in the Bill of Rights bill of rights and there is only one right left, spying on people and the patriot act and that's why Keith Olbermann is mad and I don't blame him.

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 42

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/7/2008 11:26:13 PM

corysub

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Things will definitely be much better if Obama is elected president. All the money wasted on war that could have been spent securing the borders and giving health care to 50 million Americans who have none. That is a disgrace to America with all its wealth it won't even cover those people like the other industrialized Western countries that give it its people health care. And it would be nice to have a president that believes in the Constitution instead of trying to destroy it with signing statements

Fifteen percent of Americans that do not have a defined healthcare program and depend on government (read taxpayers) largesse to pay their doctor, ER, and hospital bill. Hospitals cannot turn down anyone who comes
into the ER with an emergency. Withhout trying to disect why some of these people do not have coverage,
it must be remembered that 85% of Americans DO have coverage in the best healthcare in the world. We live
in a small town and the facilities here are as good, the doctors as well versed in state of the art procedures as
when we lived in Manhattan. People come across our borders for specialized operations and cures. The American drug industry is world leader. Obama would change this system for the European model of socialized medicne. If anyone has ever gone to a doctor or dentist in Europe...as we did in Germany, you will find the "best" opted out of the system and take private pay.

Not only will Obama put a bureaucrat in as "gatekeeper" for our individual healthcare and survival, the cost will
be staggaring. Why is it that the price of petrol in Europe is five to eight dollars a gallon more than in the USA?
It's all in TAXES/liter. There is no such thing as a "free lunch or free healthcare". The government is a non-profit
institution and lives off the teet of taxpayers.

As far as the Constitution, I believe it provides that everyone is entitled by their creator to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Where does it say the pursuit and redistribution of the wealth? Hey.. maybe I missed that and could be wrong.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 43

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/7/2008 11:31:44 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I can see the first balanced report:

Today in the news...
The GOP sucks and want to murder us all...
Meanwhile, Obama continues to enlighten the world, bringing peace and prosperity to all that are willing to believe. His speech made me see the light, and was almost orgasmic.

Well, Thadius, why don't you find me an example of a Progressive Governor who called out the National Guard on his own citizens and killed them.

Please. I want to see this. Good luck in your search.

Fact of the matter is, it has only been fascists who have had their minions murder innocent Progressives.

We haven't forgotten.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 44

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 3:36:52 AM

SilverMark

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Joined: 5/9/2007
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I think it should be Olberman and Hannity moderating the debates....then a best 2 out of 3 falls immediately following.....now that would be entertaining!

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 45

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 3:49:43 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Things will definitely be much better if Obama is elected president. All the money wasted on war that could have been spent securing the borders and giving health care to 50 million Americans who have none. That is a disgrace to America with all its wealth it won't even cover those people like the other industrialized Western countries that give it its people health care. And it would be nice to have a president that believes in the Constitution instead of trying to destroy it with signing statements

Fifteen percent of Americans that do not have a defined healthcare program and depend on government (read taxpayers) largesse to pay their doctor, ER, and hospital bill. Hospitals cannot turn down anyone who comes
into the ER with an emergency. Withhout trying to disect why some of these people do not have coverage,
it must be remembered that 85% of Americans DO have coverage in the best healthcare in the world. We live
in a small town and the facilities here are as good, the doctors as well versed in state of the art procedures as
when we lived in Manhattan. People come across our borders for specialized operations and cures. The American drug industry is world leader. Obama would change this system for the European model of socialized medicne. If anyone has ever gone to a doctor or dentist in Europe...as we did in Germany, you will find the "best" opted out of the system and take private pay.

Every international statistic says otherwise and every international statistic says Americans pay between 50-100% more for the privilege of an inferior system compared to people in other developed countries. Last year even the American Medical Association said that the American healthcare system was the worst in the developed world. Americans also have shorter lives than western Europeans, even wealthy Americans don't live as long as poor western Europeans.

I could give you anecdotal evidence as to why American healthcare is bad, every system has its problems but the fact of costs to citizens and how long people live, is there for all to see.

http://www.healthcare-int.com/stats.html

Though I have to admit, because European healthcare is state run, it does not seek corporate profits like the American system but focuses on reducing cost by promoting healthy living as opposed to curing people once they are ill. This way, resources can be allocated to people who are ill, rather than giving treatment to people who don't need it. My brother who lives in California says you'll get treatment for anything in America as long as you are healthy and can pay for it but once you are sick and money is tight, they don't want to know you and the insurance company will tell you to basically fuck off and die. OK, a slight exaggeration but before he went to live in America, he wouldn't hear a thing said against anything American.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/8/2008 4:04:11 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 46

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 5:06:04 AM

caitlyn

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Very rare that we would ever agree on anything, but this is one time we do.

The American healthcare system has devolved into nothing more than profiteering.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 47

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 5:41:47 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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By this, do you mean to say that the government under such a system begins to act as if it owns you, and seeks to micromanage every aspect of your life under the guise of "healthcare"?

quote:

but focuses on reducing cost by promoting healthy living as opposed to curing people once they are ill.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 48

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 5:47:16 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

By this, do you mean to say that the government under such a system begins to act as if it owns you, and seeks to micromanage every aspect of your life under the guise of "healthcare"?

quote:

but focuses on reducing cost by promoting healthy living as opposed to curing people once they are ill.

Promoting good healthcare is not micro-managing people's affairs. Imformation is made available for people to make the best choices for themselves and society as a whole. People can eat fifty cheeseburgers a day, drink ten pints of beer and smoke 100 cigarettes a day and still not be denied healthcare. However, people might take heed of the advice because they want to live longer and have more active and productive lives.

America promotes capitalism through militarism, I have never seen you have a problem with that sort of promotion.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/8/2008 5:48:17 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 49

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 5:55:33 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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But the government does take ownership of your body though, right?

I mean, it is theirs to care for. By definition it becomes theirs.

Bureaucrats here already try to legislate many of our choices for us, such as limits on fast food restaurants and sin taxes on things like smoking... I'm sure that if they had an excuse like cost-savings then they'd push for more and more and more control, as government and bureaucracy naturally tends to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Promoting good healthcare is not micro-managing people's affairs. Imformation is made available for people to make the best choices for themselves and society as a whole. People can eat fifty cheeseburgers a day, drink ten pints of beer and smoke 100 cigarettes a day and still not be denied healthcare. However, people might take heed of the advice because they want to live longer and have more active and productive lives.

America promotes capitalism through militarism, I have never seen you have a problem with that sort of promotion.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 50

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 6:15:39 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

But the government does take ownership of your body though, right?

I mean, it is theirs to care for. By definition it becomes theirs.

Bureaucrats here already try to legislate many of our choices for us, such as limits on fast food restaurants and sin taxes on things like smoking... I'm sure that if they had an excuse like cost-savings then they'd push for more and more and more control, as government and bureaucracy naturally tends to do.

Not at all. You can pay for your medical care like Americans do, through insurance. Some people do this because it is a way of getting minor treatment more quickly but when it comes to major treatment, even people who would like to see an end to state healthcare, tend to fall in love with state healthcare and use the state healthcare system because it is better than private care and with an added bonus,they won't go bankrupt through it which is a plus.

Cost saving was the wrong way to put it. Saving costs in one sphere of healthcare means more to spend in another sphere.

Government legislating in a hope of influencing choices is as old as governments. One should be asking in whose benefit are they legislating for. If they raise taxes on tobacco and use the extra for healthcare, fine by me, I can see who will benefit. If they lower taxes on tobacco and have to cut costs accordingly, one would have to ask is this for the benefit of the smoker or the tobacco company.

Each European country has its own system, they aren't all the same but if any European government tried to introduce an American style private system, it would be political suicide. That says something about the respect for the American health system. Remember, we are talking about the health system, not the quality of healthcare that is available if you are lucky enough to afford it. If you are rich, you always have choices, if you aren't, your choices are severely limited whcih ever side of the pond you are on. Statistics show that ordinary Europeans have made the right decision in backing national healthcare.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 51

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 8:05:49 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I'm sure that the bureaucrats would find ways to force everyone into the system, like "...in the name of equality". "After all, why should the rich have better healthcare than the poor?"

Wait, isn't that the current excuse...

Then, once everybody's in it'll be,

"No cheese burger for YOU -

Eat your SALAD"

I can see our future now, it looks like a schoolyard scene from "The Wall."

< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/8/2008 8:12:24 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 52

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 9:10:53 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'm sure that the bureaucrats would find ways to force everyone into the system, like "...in the name of equality". "After all, why should the rich have better healthcare than the poor?"

Wait, isn't that the current excuse...

Then, once everybody's in it'll be,

"No cheese burger for YOU -

Eat your SALAD"

I can see our future now, it looks like a schoolyard scene from "The Wall."

Sanity, apart from Britain, traditionally Europeans have a better diet and a more healthy life style than Americans so the bureaucrats needn't over concern themselves and since I probably pay 50% less than you for better health care with the percentage chance of living a longer, healthier life than you, I would worry about what your own bureaucrats are doing for you.

"After all, why should the rich have better healthcare than the poor?"

The rich need the poor as much as the poor need the rich. The rich live in a society that allows them to accumulate wealth, they are not above society and for your information, when it comes to having serious illness, rich Europeans tend to choose their national health service for their healthcare because it is better than what private healthcare provides.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 53

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 9:29:53 AM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I can see the first balanced report:

Today in the news...
The GOP sucks and want to murder us all...
Meanwhile, Obama continues to enlighten the world, bringing peace and prosperity to all that are willing to believe. His speech made me see the light, and was almost orgasmic.

Well, Thadius, why don't you find me an example of a Progressive Governor who called out the National Guard on his own citizens and killed them.

Please. I want to see this. Good luck in your search.

Fact of the matter is, it has only been fascists who have had their minions murder innocent Progressives.

We haven't forgotten.

Where did this rant come from? You lost me.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 54

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 9:30:54 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I guess you miss the point, which is that government and bureaucracy naturally seek to grow themselves and, if allowed control over our healthcare, they as a group will realize that (due to future socialized medicine) they're fully responsible for our the cost of caring for our bodies and they will incrementally seek control over how we take care for them and how we use them.

Even if it isn't occurring right now in all of Europe doesn't mean that it isn't coming. Governments always seek more control, more power - very seldom less. And in many ways it's already happening! All I am pointing out is that socialized medicine will only add fuel to that fire.

Cheeseburgers? Forbidden.

Alcohol? Never.

Bicycling? With the proper gear, permits and license only.

Reproduction? Only through strict government oversight.

Swing sets? Felonious to posses.

And so on...

< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/8/2008 10:17:29 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Post #: 55

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 10:10:45 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I can see the first balanced report:

Today in the news...
The GOP sucks and want to murder us all...
Meanwhile, Obama continues to enlighten the world, bringing peace and prosperity to all that are willing to believe. His speech made me see the light, and was almost orgasmic.

NOW you're getting it! :)

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 56

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 10:36:06 AM

housesub4you

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Joined: 4/2/2008
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Back to the actually thread, I thought Mathews would have gotten tossed just for his hair screw ups, dam crap was flying everywhere.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 57

RE: Olbermann / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/8/2008 3:38:31 PM

cloudboy

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As usual, John Stewart is ahead of the curve.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 58

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/9/2008 12:28:08 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I guess you miss the point, which is that government and bureaucracy naturally seek to grow themselves and, if allowed control over our healthcare, they as a group will realize that (due to future socialized medicine) they're fully responsible for our the cost of caring for our bodies and they will incrementally seek control over how we take care for them and how we use them.

I sure you would find that there are more bureaucrats controling American healthcare, even if they are private ones.

The American military-industrial complex is far bigger than European health bureacracies. The huge bloated military (huge numbers of desk soldiers) and the amount of pivate companies that exist for military services and products which depend on government contracts, are effectively in the employ of the government. European health bureaucracis are benigh compared.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 59

RE: Oberman / Mathews Lose Anchor Seats - 9/9/2008 5:29:44 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

That's a black hole for you. American military power / American troops in Europe...

It seems that any discussion involving you gets sucked in that direction. That or the joys of Socialism.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/9/2008 5:34:29 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Post #: 60

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