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The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 7:31:40 PM

MissSCD

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This is why I vote the way I do. This is a woman's basic right to choose.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080909/NEWS/809090365/-1/WIRE04&title=Palin_Pick_Adds_Fuel_to_Abortion_Debate

Regards, MissSCD

Before you attack me, I personally do not believe in abortion. I think women the right to choose with certain limitations.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 7:37:41 PM

kittinSol

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Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 7:41:03 PM

MissSCD

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Joined: 3/10/2007
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kittinSol:

Your comments does not suprise me at all kittinSol. People believe in abortion. People do not believe in abortion. The underlying difference is legislative change. If that law is taken away from women, it will be a huge error on our part.

SCD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 3

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 7:42:46 PM

Roselaure

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Joined: 4/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.

It's innacurate to say that one believes in abortion. Abortion is not some abstract notion or a deity, it's a real concrete thing. One may not approve of abortion, one may support or oppose it, but it exists, thereby precluding belief or disbelief.

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Post #: 4

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 7:43:24 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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does Palin consider birth control to be the same as abortion?

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Post #: 5

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 7:44:14 PM

patwi

Posts: 296
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Nobody 'believes in abortion'. Abortion isn't a belief system.

I try to tell people that when they ask if I "believe in evolution, or Creationism." You cannot believe in abortion or evolution, because they just have nothing at all to do with a faith system. One is a medical procedure, one is a scientific theory. Nitpicky of me, I know.

For the record, I'm pro-choice as well and that's one big reason why no matter how fine and dandy Palin may seem, her party will never have my vote.

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Post #: 6

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 7:56:49 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.

It's innacurate to say that one believes in abortion. Abortion is not some abstract notion or a deity, it's a real concrete thing. One may not approve of abortion, one may support or oppose it, but it exists, thereby precluding belief or disbelief.

Argh, that's exactly the gist of what I wrote, except better written, argh.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:03:48 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

This is why I vote the way I do. This is a woman's basic right to choose.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080909/NEWS/809090365/-1/WIRE04&title=Palin_Pick_Adds_Fuel_to_Abortion_Debate

Regards, MissSCD

Before you attack me, I personally do not believe in abortion. I think women the right to choose with certain limitations.

This is straight from the RCN convention.

Sometimes the strongest points are made through humor.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184097&title=Bristol-Palin's-Choice

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:05:38 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

does Palin consider birth control to be the same as abortion?

I've no idea, you'll have to ask her personally. Although she obviously doesn't practice it (neither does her dau... forget it

).

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Post #: 9

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:09:41 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

I try to tell people that when they ask if I "believe in evolution, or Creationism." You cannot believe in abortion or evolution, because they just have nothing at all to do with a faith system. One is a medical procedure, one is a scientific theory. Nitpicky of me, I know.

For the record, I'm pro-choice as well and that's one big reason why no matter how fine and dandy Palin may seem, her party will never have my vote.

Good for you: it's not nitpicky of you, it's showing and demanding accuracy. With a delicate and sensitive subject, it matters to make a careful choice of words.

As for Palin's stand on abortion, I'm with you. It's one of the biggest reasons why her potential access to the highest office in the land scares the shit out of me (that, and a few other things, like her complete ignorance of foreign affairs). I believe fiercely in the right to choose, and would hate to see our hard fought for rights eroded away because of a fanatic like her

.

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Post #: 10

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:10:35 PM

subtee

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Joined: 7/26/2007
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~FR

It must be understood. She does not allow for abortion for rape or incest. It's something that can't be looked at in the abstract. If a woman (or girl!) becomes pregnant as a result of violence against her, Palin believes she should be forced to carry the baby to term.

It's extremist and won't happen, it's so far out of the mainstream of both parties. But it should be understood, nonetheless.

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Post #: 11

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:13:37 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

I agree with you, subtee. Many people just don't even think of this as relevant because they think it doesn't concern them directly.

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Post #: 12

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:16:53 PM

MistressNew

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Joined: 5/5/2007
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I agree with Bill Clinton: I want abortions to be legal, safe, and rare.

The ironic thing, of course, is that Bush is the greatest anti-abortion president in history and the rates of abortions have risen dramatically since he was elected.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 13

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:20:51 PM

MissSCD

Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
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kittenSol:

I just took a quick peak at your profile. It scared me. All that talk of God and religion in circles. At least I know where I stand with you. I don't. Thank goodness.

The problem with abortion has a lot to do with education. I took a pschology class in the military. We watched a filmed that showed an abortion in progress and the removal of the fetus.
Before that film, I was all for abortion.
After the film, I was anti abortion for my own self. What Palin says is what I beileve for myself through the devine intervention of education and religion.
What the government wants to do is make it illegal. Women would be getting illegal abortions like they did in the 60s.
I am totally against partial-birth abortion.
I think we need to learn how to live first instead of putting in the government's hand to try and over turn.
Palin's view point is a blow to women's rights in my opinion.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 14

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:24:55 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

WTF? You didn't get the fact that my profile makes fun of established religious myths, did you... Have you read what I've written here? Do you understand my stance on the subject? If you don't understand something... please ask, I won't bite you.

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Post #: 15

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:29:11 PM

thishereboi

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNew

I agree with Bill Clinton: I want abortions to be legal, safe, and rare.

The ironic thing, of course, is that Bush is the greatest anti-abortion president in history and the rates of abortions have risen dramatically since he was elected.

Yes and some liberals swore up and down he would stop them all if he was elected. Guess they were wrong, huh?

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Post #: 16

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:31:14 PM

lostkitten2

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Joined: 7/1/2008
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I am disturbed by the phrase "pro abprtion" as if we go out and entice women into our den of iniquity and convince innocent women that abortions are "good for you" and they should kill their babies muah hah hah. Seriously, it's a right to choose to have an abortion, if you feel it is necessary. I wouldn't give birth or carry to term a baby that had no brainstem, I would abort it. However, I don't appreciate people aborting babies simply because they are inconvenient at that time. That seems very irresponsible to me.

It seem to me that most "pro life" folks believe in the "you play you pay" version of pennance for sin, however they are doing very little to help these young women with their child once it comes (and all us moms know that is the hard part, when the fellas usually run away, or we loose our minds.) Babies are a LOT of work, and I can't condemn a 18 year old for not feeling ready to be the sole caretaker for another life. Sorry fellas, sometimes you do pull through, Kudos to those that stay and man up to your responsibility, but it's not often, perhaps you aren't often given the options, but I have heard of a LOT of separations lately when the kids is 18 months...

There is a direct correlation between abortion and increased risk of breast cancer, is that a punishment by god or simply the body not knowing what to do with developed mammary glands when no one nurses them and all the hormones suddenly drop? It doesn't happen with miscarriages.
So what do y ou call someone like me who is not "Pro abortion" but is "Pro Choice" so long as it is made responsibly and not simply as birth control? Because that is damaging to their own bodies, and can cause damage to future kids, emotionally for many different reasons.

Palin is a very poor example of a woman, simply because she is not parenting her 5 (4?) kids and they are clearly quite messed up for it. Seeking love and comfort they missed out on from other places, while Mom is off fulfilling her abitious career goals.......I believe if people were parenting their kids better, there wouldn't need to be so many abortions......but that's another hill to die on...

< Message edited by lostkitten2 -- 9/9/2008 8:34:43 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:38:33 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lostkitten2

There is a direct correlation between abortion and increased risk of breast cancer, is that a punishment by god or simply the body not knowing what to do with developed mammary glands when no one nurses them and all the hormones suddenly drop? It doesn't happen with miscarriages.

A common enough mistake, but a complete falsehood.

"Most of the information on whether induced abortion modifies the risk of breast cancer among women comes from epidemiological studies, which are either case-control studies, or historical cohort studies. For information on abortion, all published case-control studies have relied on interviews of cases and controls with the inherent problem of recall bias. This bias occurs because women with breast cancer (cases) tend to truthfully report induced abortion while controls, who often are healthy women, have no "incentive" to provide information about personal and sensitive matters such as induced abortion. Such bias can produce elevated relative risk estimates in case-control studies. As a result, the outcome of such studies has been inconsistent, with some having indicated a small increase in risk, while others have not.
Historical cohort studies, on the other hand, are more methodologically sound. Two major studies have been carried out using this methodology, and neither found an increased risk of breast cancer associated with first trimester abortion."

World Health Organisation factsheets

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:42:46 PM

Thadius

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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

Palin is a very poor example of a woman, simply because she is not parenting her 5 (4?) kids and they are clearly quite messed up for it. Seeking love and comfort they missed out on from other places, while Mom is off fulfilling her abitious career goals.......

I wasn't going to jump into this thread as a man I feel that this issue is better left to the states and women that have to make the choice. However, the section I just quoted is a perfect example of the attacks I am sick of seeing in the media and in posts around here about any candidate. I didn't realize that you were that intimately familiar with the Palin family, please fill us in on everything

. How much time is spent with the kids? Does her husband help out at all? What are their favorite foods (besides moose stew)?

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/9/2008 8:46:42 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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Woolf kebabs - I see Palin has helped popularise shooting at woolves from helicopters. But back to the issue at hand... Ding dong.

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