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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 12:23:23 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag


Often the concept of power is tied to self worth because we (as a society) associate having power with personal worth, which means conversely we assume if a person is powerless they must be worthless (literally worth less than someone who has power). If we divorce ourselves of that notion, then we can assign personal worth and self worth without relating it to personal power. That is, a submissive can be powerless in a relationship and still have value. We can do this by assigning value based on something else... usefulness. That is, a submissive may have no power (control) in a relationship, but if they are useful they still have worth. I think that sets up a much healthier dynamic and better suited to a D/s relationship (since usefulness leads to service, something generally part of D/s relationships in some form).



An excellant post... very much enjoy the provoking thoughts it has generated for myself.

In the above paragraph, I have a different approach with regards to the D/s Dynamic. I agree with you that the notion of power is associate with personal worth. However, I don't agree that one can think that divorcing self-worth from power aligning to slave/submissives usefulness is going to improve the situation. In fact what your asking is that the person not only indentify their worth with usefulness but ones power is actually to be useful. In effect your just relabeling power as being usefulness..... the labels in effect are related and can't be seperated. If one is useless they are also powerless... if one can be useful they can have power.

Instead of realigning how self-worth to usefulness or try to divest if from the concept of power.... I look to broaden self-worth into the fullfillment of three basic psychological needs. Autonomy, Competence and finally Relatedness.

from the aspect of my slaves

Autonomy is about self-responsibility. My slaves must make the individual choice to follow my will every time I exercise it upon them... directly or indirectly. This is a fundamental choice to be who they are. They and no one else is to make this choice... It is about them make the choice "To Obey"

Competence is about my slaves pleasing me. It is not narrowly defining the pleasure to being useful. Attachment to specific behaviors of usefulness can actually have a long term harm. Everyone as we grow old will become less and less usefull. Who at 60 can do the same things and as well as 30. Granted experience does help us improve... but fighting against time is a loosing battle. But a Master that establishes the bar and decides what is pleasing to him. Any slave that pleases the Master is Competent... is it not what you do... but what please Master!

Relatedness is about my slaves and my vulnerability to one another in being true to who we are within. As we become closer and closer.. making the efforts to share our inner selves to each... sharing exactly who we are .. our desires, our strenghts, our weakness.... taking these steps the bond becomes tighter and tighter as time(with learned experiences) goes by. This is about the efforts required by both of us to be bound intellectual, emotional, physical and even spiritually.


As one grows in the fullifillment of these basic needs, we are push to a greater sense of self-worth and value. In a desire to grow and strengthing the power of the relationship. I do not seek to make a slave powerless.... I in fact seek to enhance their power and mind. Not by the simple thoughts of making a person more useful... or behaving appropriately in the different manners.... but by building upon and enhancing the Character Strenghts and virtues of the person. Character strengths such as Intergrity, Kindness, Leadership, Humility, Prudence, Optimism... to just name a few.

I do not see the D/s Dynamic as a Power Exchange Relationship... I see it as a Power Enhancing Relationship. We each seek bring that inner person outwards and demonstrated within our relationship dynamics. It takes personal power... the more power the greater we are able to be who we are within. A Power Enhancing Relationship that couples to a sharing of Personal Power that I control!



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Power - 11/30/2005 3:58:49 AM   
ExistentialSteel


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KnightofMists, that was an interesting post. I, too, don't try to make a slave powerless. I want to make her "better" in everyway I can if that means she is happy.

To me the simple fact is that a dom or sub is happier when they can exercise their drives without being judged. When the other person understands, accepts and enjoys what you do, you are validated and happier.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 4:37:49 AM   
candystripper


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Wow, KoM...what a post. This expresses exactly how i would want my realtionship with my One to develop.

i'd love to put a link to Your post in my profile. May i?

candystripper

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 5:58:00 AM   
Driver1961


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Enters, dips lid, smiles to all.............

Yes Candystriper- Excellent thread this has developed to....

Iron Bear, Padriag and Knights of Mist, I dips my lid for your resonating consistant applicable comments.

I respect authority with self-question, yet follow 'Presence'. This topic of 'presence' has been bandied around numerous times in front of me, and at times (my presence) has closed doors to me because of others (unconciously to me)being intimidated by me. Ah, (smiles) Such is Life.

My 'positional authority' was a policeman for 17yrs but I have developed beyond that to 'People Development with elements of Personhood'. I'd regard 'personhood' and 'slavejali's' from a chapter of the Mahabharata as not dissimilar to Maslow's developmental theory of 'self-actualization'. Undoubtably and hopefully more posts will bring to my notice other theorists.

The truism of Power is not about authority. Look at history and today's world. Those with supposed 'power ' through 'authority' are generally 'full of themselves', narcisstic , and deluded by the tyranny of their wealth of money or conquests. The blind have and will always follow blindly in their submission to these people. BDSM is no different and we have numerous threads citing this problem.

"Simply power is presence" as posted by the aforementioned. It is the 'essence' of a person. It is 'lived' by that person....It is not 'promoted' nor bandied about by that person, but simply 'lived' by them. It is of intrinsic values not self labelling. (I am a Master/Sir- sure offer me that respect of label but don't follow me unless you truly believe that I have your best interests at heart)

Thankyou all for some excellent thoughts.

Dips lid graciously...........departs.



_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 6:16:51 AM   
candystripper


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Another great post by one of our Gentlemen. Yes, i also see parallels between Maslow's "self-actualization" and Mahabharata's "personhood". However they do not seem synonymical to me. i believe i achieved extraordinary personal power -- possibly as defined in Padriag's description of "personhood" -- at a very tender age. i would guess it happened when i was only 5 years old, though of course it has developed as i have aged.

By contrast, i would say i have not yet achieved "self-actualizxation". i am moving towards it as i satisfy the lower tier needs -- by enhancing my life. My understanding is, Maslow posited His theory of the "tiers of needs" and "self-actualization" as a model of the theory of continuing development by an adult, so if He was correct, one would normally move up to self-actualization later in life, if ever.

candystripper


< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/30/2005 6:19:26 AM >

(in reply to Driver1961)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Power - 11/30/2005 6:43:59 AM   
Padriag


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KoM, I very much enjoyed your post and there are parts of it I do agree with. Your thoughts on developing the slave as a person are very much in tune with my own as well as what I posted previously about Personal Development. Where I disagree is the use of the word power, we seem to have very different definitions. I'll try to elaborate on what I mean and see if we can sort it out.

When I refer to power, I use a very traditional meaning. Literally from Webster's 7th Collegiate, power is 1a: a possession of control, authority or influence over others. With that in mind my earlier comment regarding debates about authority, power, control being arguments over symantics should become clearer... by that definition from Webster's it is symantics. Keeping that definition in mind when I discuss power I am speaking directly of control, of authority of influence. In a D/s relationship it should be the dominant who possess the larger share of those qualities. After all, its a bit hard to control someone if you don't actually have control (how you get that goes back to my previous post regarding leadership and dominance... ie positional authority, permission, etc.)

Now that said, this is why I disagree with parts of your post.

First I asserted, and still feel, that power and self worth need not be associated. This is a social artifact left over from a few thousand years of human history wherein those who had literal power were seen as being more important, thus worth more... and thus the natural converse of that being that those who were powerless were therefore worth less... the literal root of the word "worthless". In short, I'm saying society is wrong. Worth can, and in my opinion should, be based on other things, and usefulness being a chief basis. We already do this in our lives with many things, so its not really a new concept. Why do I value one tool over another... because one is more useful to me than another. A person may value a car or cell phone or virtually anything based on its usefulness... why then not value people in this same way? Do we not already estimate the value of employee's on this basis... on their usefulness to a company, to the employer (their usefulness often measured in the productivity)? Its not a new concept at all and all I'm really suggesting is that we finally let go of an older concept that is largely out moded.

You stated that rather than divest the power as a measure of self worth, you wanted to broaden it into autonomy, competence and relatedness. While I agree with those concepts I can't help but wonder, are we back to symantics again? Taking your defintions in turn I don't see you enhancing their power, only their usefulness to you. Your definition of autonomy is merely a statement that they freely choose to obey you. That's not autonomy, thats consensual slavery... obedience. Your definition of competence is very much a definition of being useful, specifically useful to their master by pleasing him. The third area you gave, relatedness, is about establishing a personal relationship which I won't stretch to say is about being useful (its more about being connected, security, a person with whom you can be vulnerable), but neither is that about power. So my question then is, how are any of these things about power? Using Webster's definition none of them are about power at all. That said, it would seem you've come to the same thing I have... that their self worth should be based on their usefulness, not on their power (control). So indeed, are we not debating symantics?

That said I pondered the different usages of the word "power" because there do seem to be differing defintions about things and well... I'm just terribly curious about things. This is what I concluded after two cups of tea. (You know you're a serious tea drinker when you start measuring time in the number of cups of tea you drank )

As I said before, the concept of power and self worth being related is an old one and quite literally goes back thousands of years in human history (gee, no cultural baggage there). Not surprisingly we tend to cling to the concept without consciously meaning to, a fondness for familiar ideas. Add to this that in western cultures, and American culture in particular, so much emphasis is placed on independence, on personal efficacy. Thinking about those two things what emerged to me was this, that for so long we as a society have identified individual worth in correlation to individual power, that today we still use the word even though we've largely changed the meaning. We have "power naps" and "power lunches" and "power drinks" and "power ties" in futile attempts to be "powerful" when what we really want is to be valued, to be seen as worthy... literally "of worth." We throw around the word of making a slave "powerful" when what we really mean is we want to build up her worth, her self esteem, or at the very minimum increasing her usefulness to us personally. We're using an archaic word with a modern concept... small wonder there's a bit of confusion about just what it is we mean.

That said, think we can find some common ground in our definitions and terminology?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 7:07:32 AM   
IronBear


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In one sence I agree that self worth and power are not the same, yet in another more esoteric sence, self worth is a measure of personal inner power (some may call it spiritual power). In all I have posted in this thread regarding power, I have not refered to either Power or Authority (both intrinsically intwined) in a BDSM or kink sence but in an esoteric sence. In the matters on my Lodge I was given power and authority when I bacame a Master. The The further I progressed the more of each I gained and the less I was inclined to use either unless it was necessary or within a ritual format. I once thought (when I first joined lodge), that it would be the ultimate buzz to have what my Father and his Father before him had (power and authority wise) as the Grand Master. There is no ultimate buzz, only a certain loneleness and the weight of obligation to carry. In truth other than as a Gorean Master I know nothing of the Authority and Power used in BDSM and may never know it. I do know the power and authority as well as the obligations and discliplines in owning a kajira.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 7:11:53 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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In a brief fluffy post I will just say that all these people having a truly in-depth discussion on the nature and expression of power is REALLY getting me turned on (doesn't help that I wasn't in the mood to masturbate last night either).

One thing I just want to reiterate- slaves/subs do not lose any abilities when they get into a relationship. They do not suddenly forget any of the skills or talents or abilities or innate power than they had beforehand. You can't "give" will away, you can't "exchange" your talents and skills and power.

And I don't really know of any masters who would want them to do that.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 7:19:49 AM   
IronBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

In a brief fluffy post I will just say that all these people having a truly in-depth discussion on the nature and expression of power is REALLY getting me turned on (doesn't help that I wasn't in the mood to masturbate last night either).

One thing I just want to reiterate- slaves/subs do not lose any abilities when they get into a relationship. They do not suddenly forget any of the skills or talents or abilities or innate power than they had beforehand. You can't "give" will away, you can't "exchange" your talents and skills and power.

And I don't really know of any masters who would want them to do that.



LA lass, you just had to talk about you getting turned on .. right in the midst of a wild electrical storm raging outside right now here in Qld (a huge turn on for me), didn't you?

One of the more powerfull lodge members I have and a man who is has both authority and power in the business community is in his spare time one of the most subserviant subs I know (His wife doms him). He simply knows when to lay aside the mantle of power and allow his inner child out to play. there is no imbalance at all. Thankyou for you sage comments they really summed it up nicely.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 11/30/2005 7:30:54 AM >


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 8:04:44 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

KoM, I very much enjoyed your post and there are parts of it I do agree with. Your thoughts on developing the slave as a person are very much in tune with my own as well as what I posted previously about Personal Development. Where I disagree is the use of the word power, we seem to have very different definitions. I'll try to elaborate on what I mean and see if we can sort it out.

That said, think we can find some common ground in our definitions and terminology?


once again an excellant post.... now I am up way to early... and haven't even had my mocha yet... but here goes anyways *G*

I believe that the definition to "power" we is different. In specifically understanding the definition that you are using, I can better appreciate and understand what you are talking about. If I am correct in my understanding. What you talking about is Decision Power! Decision Power entails as you said, control, authority. Within a D/s dynamic and specifically the M/s dynamics with my slaves, this type of power is indeed one that is being curtailed. Curtailed in their ability to exercise this descision power and is not about making them Powerless in their ability(quality) to make decisions. In my M/s relationships, my slaves are stripped away from the Decision Power. They in effect or limited in their Automonmy in making only and exercising one choice. To Obey! As a added note, I believe that if a slave/submissive is to hand over Decision Power or stated "control of self" they first must have control of self. You can't give what you don't have. Sometimes within D/s relationships, the slave/submissive must learn to have self-control at the same time they are handing it over. This occurs so fluidly, that often individuals fool themselves in thinking that the Dominant as taken control of the chaotic submissive. It is my opinion that the Dominant has either enforced Control upon someone (which is their own control of another) or they have taken the easier path of teaching another to control self and then recieved this control.

Now for me "Power" is in different forms. But when I was talking about the Power.. I use the definition "Ability to Act or not Act". now one can have the ability but not do it. IE... I have the ability to ride a bike and do not do so. Just because I do not ride the bike does deminish my ability to do so. Within my M/s relationships, as I have stated, I take the authority to act, but not their ability to do. What I am saying is that Power has a hierarchy to me, which suggests that the Power of a higher level uses the Power of a lower level. The hierachy is not to be confused with have some sort of value of importance with the higher level being more important than another... but more as a building blocks of one upon another.
In my understanding of power... one has "authority" to act as a higher building block upon the "ability" to act. If one is a Doctor.. you gain authority to act as a Sugerical Doctor in the legal sense. But, even if the Doctor license is taken from him. His ability to act is not taken. Now, if I remove his hands... I take away his ability to act. since he has no ability to act... he will not have authority to act as well. I will not be Master over my slave unless I have been given the authority from my slaves... but, I would not be given this authority unless I have the abilities that they recognize my abilities as being what they deem to be a requirement to have this authority. My ability to be a Master is not gain from them but from other lower blocks of Power... IE Character, Skills, Talents etc.

well... I need to run off instead of running off at the mouth.... and I still have much to share and exchange in thought and ideas with you. But, Padriag, I will say again that I very much enjoy your depth of thought and the articulated manner that you express it. It is always a pleasure, I think one of a basis of positive growing relationship of any sort is establishing common grounds of understanding of definitions and terminology. Not only understanding the common ground, but appreciating the differences. IE your a Southern Gentleman... while I am a Redneck Asshole *G*

take care






_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Power - 11/30/2005 3:48:41 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

As one grows in the fullifillment of these basic needs, we are push to a greater sense of self-worth and value. In a desire to grow and strengthing the power of the relationship. I do not seek to make a slave powerless.... I in fact seek to enhance their power and mind. Not by the simple thoughts of making a person more useful... or behaving appropriately in the different manners.... but by building upon and enhancing the Character Strenghts and virtues of the person. Character strengths such as Intergrity, Kindness, Leadership, Humility, Prudence, Optimism... to just name a few.

I do not see the D/s Dynamic as a Power Exchange Relationship... I see it as a Power Enhancing Relationship. We each seek bring that inner person outwards and demonstrated within our relationship dynamics. It takes personal power... the more power the greater we are able to be who we are within. A Power Enhancing Relationship that couples to a sharing of Personal Power that I control!




I read this post and if I didn’t know the man, I would say to myself, “yes, these are rather nice words but let’s see how you actually live your life”. In fact I have said these things about my Lord when I first met him. It is rather rare in life to meet someone whose actions are so aligned with their words.

Power, value and usefulness; my personal power is linked to the value that I have but how do I define that value? Is it through how useful of a slave I am or is it because of who I am? A woman with integrity, intelligence, curiosity, compassion and humility…

This is something that I struggle with from time to time, equating usefulness with value. I find myself falling in that trap as the weeks go by and I am not able to be in direct service to my Lord. I start to question my value to him as his slave.

From previous posts, you may know that I have a long distance, M/s relationship. We see each other often and I get to satisfy my desire to be of direct service to him. But during the weeks that we are apart, my service is mainly in an indirect manner. Much less satisfying for me, but does it make me less valuable or less powerful?

It helps to remind myself that he didn’t fall in love with me because I was useful to him. I didn’t perform some list of actions to prove my “worthiness” as a slave. We started this relationship because we valued the character strengths that we each exhibit. Our relationship structure is M/s because of my desire to be completely devoted to him, to allow him to control whatever he wishes and his need to have that control. So my value lies not within how well I can serve him a mocha, but within my character strengths and virtues.

My Lord seeks to use these strengths to improve him, me and our relationship. He doesn’t seek to make me what I am not, or mold me into some perfect ideal of a slave. Rather he helps me become a better me. He helps me become aware of my inner-self and accept the things that I learn and encourages me to behave in a manner that reflects this growth.

That sounds all pretty and romantic, but its not. It’s hard work, blood, sweat and tears (literally *rubs marks left on my ass from the barbeque brush*). It is not easy submitting your will to another, to daily make the choice to obey. But if it is done right, at the end of the day you feel more powerful for it. Not because you have the authority in the relationship, but because there is power in aligning your demonstrated behaviors with your ideal self.

Knight's kyra

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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 5:41:14 PM   
kyraofMists


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Padriag,

From one tea drinker to another (oolong and chai are my favorites), I have always enjoyed your posts. They are very articulate and thought provoking.

I am curious on what your definition of “useful” is. Is useful the actions that I can perform as a slave or do you have a different definition of useful?

I see useful as the things that I can do, like making the bed, cooking meals, serving him, being a play partner. Why I do not like linking my value or worth in relationships to my use is that one day I may no longer be able to do these things either due to age, sickness or disability.

My father has a disabling condition that prevents him from working and severely limits his ability to do things. Along with dealing with the illness, he is also struggling with not feeling valuable because his self-worth was tied up into what he could accomplish or how useful he was to the family.

I have struggled over the last few years not to say, “I am valuable because I can do XYZ.” I prefer to say that I am valuable because of who I am.

It could be that our opinions appear different because of the definitions we are placing on the word useful.

*goes to make a cup of chai*

Knight’s kyra

(in reply to Padriag)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 5:47:38 PM   
AbstractSavant


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Ahh...fascinatingly enough. I spent about 30 minutes reading through this thread...enjoying a cup of orange roiboos, and then a nice cup of chai.

Nothing like getting turned on and drinking soothing teas while enriching my mind.

I felt sort of guilty, like I was watching a great discussion of philosophy from behind a cabinet or something.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 6:10:33 PM   
ImpGrrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
i cannot resist adding my two cents. By the phrase "driving her deeper into submission than she currently desires to go" i can only assume You are asking "what if i get her to things she hates/fears/suffers from just to please me?" My rejoiner is this violates the very basis of a M/s or D/s relationship. It is an abrogation of the duty He undertook to protect her from harm. It also abrogates the duty He undertook to help her discover her submissive nature -- by imposing behavior on her that is not yet within her range. It is selfish and cruel, and violates the promise He made to her, to treasure her and love her. If this happened to me, i'd leave. Pushing limits is a fun thing; learning together new ways to bring one another sexual joy. Pushing her completely out of her range is a different kettle of fish; at that moment, the Man has abrogated His role as Dom or Master and has become her tormentor.

candystripper




Not all relationships are set up with these promises and mandates - please keep that in mind.

(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 9:18:20 PM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Padriag,

From one tea drinker to another (oolong and chai are my favorites), I have always enjoyed your posts. They are very articulate and thought provoking.

Well thank you, that was really sweet of you to say. I've had a really long day (worked 11 hours) so I'm kinda worn out and a little annoyed over something else (not important), but I'll try to answer your post an then get back to the rest of the thread tomorrow if I have time.

quote:

I am curious on what your definition of “useful” is. Is useful the actions that I can perform as a slave or do you have a different definition of useful?

I see useful as the things that I can do, like making the bed, cooking meals, serving him, being a play partner. Why I do not like linking my value or worth in relationships to my use is that one day I may no longer be able to do these things either due to age, sickness or disability.

My father has a disabling condition that prevents him from working and severely limits his ability to do things. Along with dealing with the illness, he is also struggling with not feeling valuable because his self-worth was tied up into what he could accomplish or how useful he was to the family.

I have struggled over the last few years not to say, “I am valuable because I can do XYZ.” I prefer to say that I am valuable because of who I am.

It could be that our opinions appear different because of the definitions we are placing on the word useful.

That's an excellent question for a variety of reasons. Lots of people struggle with that, trying to feel useful, especially these days when the world is changing so rapidly and often folks get displaced by those changes. It can be rough trying to adapt. Before I give you my definition, let me suggest some reading that you might find useful and so might your father. Two books, both by Nathaniel Brandon, "The Six Pillars of Self Esteem" and "Honoring the Self".

Usefulness can be a lot of things. But a very basic one is having purpose, function, utility in relation to someone else. That leaves a lot of possibilties open.

The most common way people think of being useful to someone else is by doing something that directly helps or pleases that person. BTW, something to keep in mind about usefulness... its always in relationship to someone else. That is, nothing is useful until its useful to someone. Common ways a slave might be thought of as useful are fixing meals, taking care of their Master when he isn't feeling well, giving a back rub, doing tasks for him, pleasing him sexually when he desires it and so forth... all very direct forms of service with immediate results.

Now lets step outside the box a bit.

First lets think about indirect results and indirect forms of service. Suppose a slave does something nice for someone else and this person in turn remarks to her Master what a great gal he has... that's still being useful to her Master isn't it, only its indirect. She did something for a third person, and because that person was pleased or impressed or what ever, it in turn caused that person to compliment her Master which made him feel good... and that's useful to him (someone who cause you to feel good is definitely useful, even if they way they cause it is indirectly, we tend like people who make us feel good). Even more indirect, suppose a slave isn't public about her relationship. However, lets say she does really great at her job, earns a degree at school, etc. People think well of her for it, that makes her Master proud of her... that's still being useful (because of course we want to be proud of you, who wants a slave you have to feel ashamed of?). So being useful doesn't even have to be related to the lifestyle, it can be vanilla things, things that don't directly affect or serve but are still indirectly useful.

Now lets go a little further outside a box and think about intangibles. What about qualities you possess, aren't they useful? For example, in my tool box I have two hammers. One is a 24oz waffled head framing hammer, the other is a 16oz smooth head finishing hammer. Each has different qualities that make them innately useful in different ways. The framing hammer is great for when I'm pounding large nails and don't want to work myself to death (just don't hit your thumb with it, trust me, its nine kinds of pain you don't want to know about ), but the finishing hammer is best when I'm doing trim work or things where I don't want to damage the walls or woodwork. People can be innately useful too. Having integrity makes you innately useful... integrity means you can be trusted, and I'd say that's a pretty darn useful quality in just about anybody! Being dependable and being able to get things done without supervision make you innately useful... its nice when someone can give you a task to do and know you'll get it taken care of... that's one thing less for them to worry about and that definitely useful.

So there are lots of ways we can all be useful... some of it is through direct forms of service... doing something for someone. But sometimes its indirect things, we do something and it creates a chain of events that benefits someone else (for example if you donated to a charity to help people affected by Katrina or Rita, you were indirectly useful to all those people, pretty cool). And sometimes it just a skill or a quality we possess that gives us a specific kind of innate usefulness.

Thinking of it that way, I bet you can make a pretty good list of ways you can be useful. Bet you could help your dad do that too.

quote:

*goes to make a cup of chai*

Knight’s kyra

Bit of trivia for you.. Chai is an urdu-hindi word... it means tea. Thus chai tea literally translates as... tea tea, kinda silly isn't it.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 9:20:51 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
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PS - was having Apple, Cinnamon & Raisin black tea while writing this... I buy in bulk direct from Twinnings.

Twinnings

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Power - 11/30/2005 9:22:05 PM   
MistressYlwa


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What could I possible say that would come close to what has already been stated.

Well done, All.

Mistress Ylwa


You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

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RE: Power - 12/1/2005 7:14:30 PM   
kyraofMists


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Padriag,

Thank you for the response. Definitely a different perspective to consider. You have given me much to think about.

And thanks for the link to Twinnings.

Apologies to the OP for taking the thread off topic a little.

Knight's kyra

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RE: Power - 12/1/2005 7:39:27 PM   
angaothsi


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At the risk of being a very off topic here may I please say, this has been an extreamly wonderful thread, well written exchanges of ideas, though not everyone agreed compleatly with each other it was all done in a very mature, articulate ,and thought provoking manner. I want to thank everyone for taking the time to provide such wonderful posts. And since I am already off topic to begin with, being from Louisiana, i am a coffee and chicory girl, no sugar no cream, why ruin the flavor, though I do enjoy a nice cup of chai from time to time. Blessing everyone!

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RE: Power - 3/12/2006 10:33:34 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

I want to share an understanding of Power that I appreciate. Power is the ability to stay in your centre no matter what is going on outside of yourself, and with that, the ability to know what you want and the steps necessary to create it. If you are in your centre then Play is about an expression of you, weather top or bottom it is your choice and your experience. If you are giving away power to another consciously, then applying this premise, you are therefore ironically in a Powerful place. Likewise if you feel as a top that you need to force the issue the question do you really have Power?


If ever a thread was worth raising from the dead, it's this one. ;)

Darkness, that stormy weather of the soul and the ability to harness it and unleash it with control. It's no wonder to me that some Masters who have that ability think they are Gods. To shape and dictate where the lightening strikes, when the rain falls, how fast the heart beats, such, to me, are elements of BDSM power. Without that bit of darkness, the sunshine blinds me. Without the shadows, there is no unknown and I need that because my own shadows love the dance, the touch of fear, the primal and visceral that lays within me and can't be pulled out by 'kind' or 'nice.' Kind and nice are eaten alive in the face of that power. Without the unknown, there is no journey to take, no territory to discover, no growth to be had. "Firm but gentle." How often I see those words and to my mind, they do not hold hands very well with power and control. They have their place and, indeed, gentle and tender thoughts are part of an intimate and loving relationship, but it's not the relationship I may have with another which feeds the beast. Relationships feed my humanity, but the darkness, the blood, the roar and rage of controlled power feeds those things which fall outside of my humanity. Those things I sought and which brought me to where I reside today, in BDSM. The deer makes no gift of her meat to the hunter. He takes it and eats it at his leisure. What is beautiful for me, is that there is no death when he eats my power because it remains in tact and whole within him. He digests it then utilizes it and snaps it out the end of his whip, the blade of his tongue.. he makes the rain fall in the form of my tears. He makes the Earth stand still or rotate with single words dropped from great height so that I quake with unknowing. Shall the world spin to the left or right today? Always, always, his choice. Such is why his direction and clarity are so important. Without being told right or left, I can spin out into the void, not knowing where the handholds may be. This is how it is for me.. how I wanted it, how I craved it.. how I live it .. without that.. without that darkness.. without the control of that wild.. I am lost. The ability to stay in my center is the last thing that I need. It's the edge, the very edge.. to the point where you fall or fly that brings me back again and again.. so I can dance knowing I may trip and fall .. yet still taking that chance.

"May the Force be with you." ;)

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 3/12/2006 10:38:24 AM >


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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