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RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 4:58:02 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Palestinian moderates.

Like smart blondes and UFOs, MC, I've been hearing about these for years, but never seem to run across them...

You wouldn't in the American media but then, willful ignorance of the middle east seems to be the forte of Americans.

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Post #: 21

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 6:44:01 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

You wouldn't in the American media but then, willful ignorance of the middle east seems to be the forte of Americans.

That's right, MC. Every time I talk with someone from that part of the world, or listen to them speak, or read what they have written, there is a news crew from Fox right there to edit it for me...

Here is a riddle for you. How do you spot a middle eastern moderate? He's the one that is dead.

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Post #: 22

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 6:44:14 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Transcript: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God...That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."
[Emphasis added]

You lose track of what she is asking for and the use of punctuation seems out of place. Let's break it down though.

She asks the folks to pray for a few things... what are those things she prays for:
1. our military men and women who are striving to do what is right
2. for this country
3. that our national leaders are sending our soldiers on a task that is from god (basicly praying that the task is in line with God's will)
4. that the plan is God's plan

So now, I ask you what is wrong with a person of faith praying that what is about to happen is in accordance with God's plans and desires? Is this not the same as what some of the subs and slaves do around here almost daily in "I hope master/mistress likes what I am doing", or "I hope that master/mistress enjoys this surprise" ?

Nah, I guess not because that would make the person praying into a normal human being. Afterall, everybody knows this woman is an extremist.

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Post #: 23

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:00:27 AM

kittinSol

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Transcript:

"GIBSON: You said recently, in your old church, "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God." Are we fighting a holy war?

PALIN: You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote.

GIBSON: Exact words.

PALIN: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln's words when he said -- first, he suggested never presume to know what God's will is, and I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words. But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that's a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God's side. That's what that comment was all about, Charlie.

GIBSON: I take your point about Lincoln's words, but you went on and said, "There is a plan and it is God's plan."

PALIN: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That, in my world view, is a grand -- the grand plan."

Trying to bring Lincoln into the discussion was pathetic backpeddaling at its best, and not even very well done either - a politician who can't even cover her own arse? Scary

.

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Post #: 24

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:02:41 AM

Archer

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"Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds; let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own."

Guess who??????

John F Kennedy Inaugural address

"And, O Lord, give us Faith. Give us Faith in Thee; Faith in our sons; Faith in each other; Faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose."

Guess Who????????

FDR D-Day prayer

The purposes of the Almighty are perfect, and must prevail, though we erring mortals may fail to accurately perceive them in advance. We hoped for a happy termination of this terrible war long before this; but God knows best, and has ruled otherwise. We shall yet acknowledge His wisdom and our own error therein. Meanwhile we must work earnestly in the best light He gives us, trusting that so working still conduces to the great ends He ordains. Surely He intends some great good to follow this mighty convulsion, which no mortal could make, and no mortal could stay.

Abe Lincoln 2nd Inuagural speech

So it seems the God's plan theme has a history of comming up in politics.

< Message edited by Archer -- 9/12/2008 7:08:33 AM >

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Post #: 25

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:04:11 AM

kittinSol

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But Archer, we're in the XXIst Century

. See why a stance like Palin's would sound frightening? Bush was on a similar 'God told me to' trip, and look where it got us.

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Post #: 26

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:09:21 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

You wouldn't in the American media but then, willful ignorance of the middle east seems to be the forte of Americans.

That's right, MC. Every time I talk with someone from that part of the world, or listen to them speak, or read what they have written, there is a news crew from Fox right there to edit it for me...

Here is a riddle for you. How do you spot a middle eastern moderate? He's the one that is dead.

Typical flippant remark of someone who knows nothing. The west lines up behind one lot of militants and the east lines up behind another. If the west really believed in civilised values (which I see no evidence it does) it would use its influence as a honest broker. Bring the moderates together and sideline the extremists of both sides. Of course the US doesn't want that which is why it tries to keep everyone who wants to support the moderates of both sides out of the middle east.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Post #: 27

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:12:38 AM

Archer

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The stance that we should hope that our actions our political leader's plans are really as right and just and in keeping with the plan God has?

That's been standard mainstream Christian prayer for a very long time.
I hope that I am doing what is right and fair and just is a universal prayer, even amoung non christians.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 28

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:14:59 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Transcript:

"GIBSON: You said recently, in your old church, "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God." Are we fighting a holy war?

PALIN: You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote.

GIBSON: Exact words.

PALIN: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln's words when he said -- first, he suggested never presume to know what God's will is, and I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words. But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that's a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God's side. That's what that comment was all about, Charlie.

GIBSON: I take your point about Lincoln's words, but you went on and said, "There is a plan and it is God's plan."

PALIN: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That, in my world view, is a grand -- the grand plan."

Trying to bring Lincoln into the discussion was pathetic backpeddaling at its best, and not even very well done either - a politician who can't even cover her own arse? Scary .

http://www.puma08.com/2008/09/05/on-the-palin-prayer-issue/

quote:

Here is the excerpt in question:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a “task that is from God.”…
“Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God,” she said. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God’s plan.”

What AP chose not to provide is the full context of the statement, which is provided below:

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

Slight difference in what is being said, eh? Talk about context. Gibson also seemed to want to ignore the context, in his questioning.

_____________________________

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Post #: 29

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:18:21 AM

kittinSol

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Okay. Keep spinning, keep spinning: we'll just stay on firm ground and try not to get dizzy.

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Post #: 30

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:23:20 AM

meatcleaver

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Quote posted by Thadius

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

That last line is nonsense. What intelligent person prays that what they are doing is actually god's plan? Its like saying I'm going to kick my neighbour's head in but afterwards, I'll pray that it is god's plan. Tough if it ain't!

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Post #: 31

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:24:33 AM

kittinSol

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That's because he moves in mysterious ways.

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Post #: 32

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:24:35 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Okay. Keep spinning, keep spinning: we'll just stay on firm ground and try not to get dizzy.

Who is spinning anything? I am presenting what was said.

Just like there is a huge difference between:

Pray that what I am doing is right.
and
What I am doing is right.

One is a hope that the actions are proper, the other is a declaration that it is proper.

I thought you of all people would be able to see the difference, especially since you are rather good at deciphering the nuance in Obama's words.

Just sayin.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Post #: 33

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:24:36 AM

Archer

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Sp[inning?????? That's a laugh beyond belief that citeing the entire statement vs cherry picking one phrase in the sentance is spinning something.
If anything is spin it is the spin put on it to make it seem outside of the mainstream to pray that our political leaders plan is somehow in keeping with what is right according to God.

To proove it is basicly mainstream christian thought and prayer I redirect you to the sections of speeches by three presidents John Kennedy, FDR and Lincoln, that I posted previously.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 34

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:27:02 AM

CarrieO

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k

The video of her speech given to her church.

For what it's worth.

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Post #: 35

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:28:46 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Quote posted by Thadius

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

That last line is nonsense. What intelligent person prays that what they are doing is actually god's plan? Its like saying I'm going to kick my neighbour's head in but afterwards, I'll pray that it is god's plan. Tough if it ain't!

Are you suggesting that intelligent people don't pray? So much for that understanding that you claim is so rampant in Europe, eh? Intolerance is acceptable as long as it is aimed at Christians.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Post #: 36

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:29:19 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I thought you of all people would be able to see the difference, especially since you are rather good at deciphering the nuance in Obama's words.

I am, really

? Where?

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Post #: 37

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:36:53 AM

kittinSol

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Palin spinned it herself, in full view of the cameras during that interview when she tried to cover up her religious speech with the excuse that it was in reference to Lincoln, when it clearly wasn't - not once does she talk about him during the original church clip. That's one humongously obvious piece of public spinning. Then I see her supporters spinning the plate into the other direction yet again by ignoring her latest Lincoln reference. It's spin in all its glory.

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Post #: 38

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:39:22 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Quote posted by Thadius

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

That last line is nonsense. What intelligent person prays that what they are doing is actually god's plan? Its like saying I'm going to kick my neighbour's head in but afterwards, I'll pray that it is god's plan. Tough if it ain't!

Are you suggesting that intelligent people don't pray? So much for that understanding that you claim is so rampant in Europe, eh? Intolerance is acceptable as long as it is aimed at Christians.

I said what she said is nonsense which really had nothing to do with whether your average christian prays or not. By the way, Hitler used to pray too apparently and he was also convinced he was doing god's work. She's just justifying her temporal beliefs by invoking her religion.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Post #: 39

RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 7:43:29 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Quote posted by Thadius

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

That last line is nonsense. What intelligent person prays that what they are doing is actually god's plan? Its like saying I'm going to kick my neighbour's head in but afterwards, I'll pray that it is god's plan. Tough if it ain't!

Are you suggesting that intelligent people don't pray? So much for that understanding that you claim is so rampant in Europe, eh? Intolerance is acceptable as long as it is aimed at Christians.

I said what she said is nonsense which really had nothing to do with whether your average christian prays or not. By the way, Hitler used to pray too apparently and he was also convinced he was doing god's work. She's just justifying her temporal beliefs by invoking her religion.

So now you are comparing her to Hitler. Very impressive.

You asked:

quote:

What intelligent person prays that what they are doing is actually god's plan?

The answer is every Christian that I know.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Post #: 40

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