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RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:08:08 AM   
Archer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

She's in a church (her church) before she was running as VP candidate.
Her remarks FIT the audience, they fit the situation and they fit the mainstream christian doctrine of praying that your decissions (or those of the political leaders) are in keeping with god's will.

The rest is muck raking sensationalism and bias.



Oh well, I guess christians and muslims have a lot in common.

They decide what god thinks for him.



WOW just WOW how you love to twist from the original idea of praying that the actions are in keeping with gods will to deciding what God's will is, to praying after the fact that god will understand would make an Olympic gymnast green with envy.

Love how you shift the definitions and argument so easily.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:08:47 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		If ABC or any other member of the mainstream-media wants to prove once and for all that they are not "in bed" with Barack Obama they'll conduct an interview with Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton, ask them one question, and post the interview it in its entirety.  The one question?  "Please explain in detail why you have said that Barack Obama does not have the experience or judgment to be President?" :-)

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:10:40 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
Remember the ear that Peter cut off?


And Jesus rebuked him for it.
His instruction not to use arms came after that incident.  From then on, they obeyed.

Do you have the garden link at all?
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:11:05 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Uhmm,

The primaries are over.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqrVfvXgJuQ

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/12/2008 9:12:33 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:11:24 AM   
Archer


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Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

She's in a church (her church) before she was running as VP candidate.
Her remarks FIT the audience, they fit the situation and they fit the mainstream christian doctrine of praying that your decissions (or those of the political leaders) are in keeping with god's will.


It all comes down the being saved via Jesus.  If you pray to god that the will be Gods, then you are opening yourself to being wrong - so when you come face to face with Jesus, you can avoid rejection because of an 'honest' mistake.
Fortunately, Jesus - or rather God - isn't so easily fooled.
 
the.dark.


Ah the argument that they were not honestly believing that their actions were in keeping with what they understood to be God's will argument. toss a few more assumpotions in and you might have a mess nobody can work out of.

I am assuming that the prayer is in all honesty just as it is at face value, to do otherwise is to engadge in judgement of the sort we are admonished not to perform.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:11:51 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

She's in a church (her church) before she was running as VP candidate.
Her remarks FIT the audience, they fit the situation and they fit the mainstream christian doctrine of praying that your decissions (or those of the political leaders) are in keeping with god's will.

The rest is muck raking sensationalism and bias.



Oh well, I guess christians and muslims have a lot in common.

They decide what god thinks for him.



WOW just WOW how you love to twist from the original idea of praying that the actions are in keeping with gods will to deciding what God's will is, to praying after the fact that god will understand would make an Olympic gymnast green with envy.

Love how you shift the definitions and argument so easily.



Praying to god is easy, praying to god that your actions are right when all the reported teachings a religion is based on says its wrong, is just self justification and rationalization. Its what religious terrorists do.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/12/2008 9:12:24 AM >

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(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:18:20 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

She's in a church (her church) before she was running as VP candidate.
Her remarks FIT the audience, they fit the situation and they fit the mainstream christian doctrine of praying that your decissions (or those of the political leaders) are in keeping with god's will.


It all comes down the being saved via Jesus.  If you pray to god that the will be Gods, then you are opening yourself to being wrong - so when you come face to face with Jesus, you can avoid rejection because of an 'honest' mistake.
Fortunately, Jesus - or rather God - isn't so easily fooled.
 
the.dark.


Ah the argument that they were not honestly believing that their actions were in keeping with what they understood to be God's will argument. toss a few more assumpotions in and you might have a mess nobody can work out of.

I am assuming that the prayer is in all honesty just as it is at face value, to do otherwise is to engadge in judgement of the sort we are admonished not to perform.



That is absolutely NOT what I said.
It is a case of covering all the basis.  It has nothing to DO with dishonesty.  It has everything of not being entirely sure of ones own instincts.
 
And do not start on the whole judgements being down to God statement, when you are quite capable and openly visable at doing what you are claiming you are 'admonished not to perform' in this very thread.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:22:21 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		And you have bought into the idea that Palin was praying for something that is not in evidence even when the full quote parralells other speaches that have been accepted as praying that the decissions made have dicerned god's unknowable will properly.

You assume the prayer was one thing.
I assume that the speach was just what it says. I pray we are right in our judgement of what is the right thing to do. A prayer that extends to every religion I can think of in some form or another.


(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:23:35 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
Remember the ear that Peter cut off?


And Jesus rebuked him for it.
His instruction not to use arms came after that incident.  From then on, they obeyed.

Do you have the garden link at all?
 
the.dark.

 
Just my Bible. John 18:10 
 
You are correct that he was quickly corrected, but was it for the reason of being peaceful, or was it for the purpose of not disturbing the events to come.  He needed to be taken, for the rest of the events to unfold. Included in the "rebuke" "the cup my father has given me: shall I not drink"
 
My apologies for the use of garden... it was an olive grove.  My confusion is from later in John 18:26 where:
 
"One of the servants of the high priest, being his kinsman whose ear Peter cut off, saith, Did not I see thee in the garden with him?"


Just my simple take on things.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:25:12 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		It is exactly the way I read it if there is an encode decode communication problem then lets work on that.

so when you come face to face with Jesus, you can avoid rejection because of an 'honest' mistake.

How is that anything but accusing of dishonesty when you put ' honest'  inside quotation marks?????????

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:27:50 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		WTF happened to seperation of church and state?????????????????

(that was using fast reply btw.....)


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/12/2008 9:29:06 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:29:26 AM   
Thadius


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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

WTF happened to seperation of church and state?????????????????


Does that mean that a member of the state cannot speak at a church?  How about being able to pray at a church?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:32:32 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Burn em all at the stake.....

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:34:15 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

You are correct that he was quickly corrected, but was it for the reason of being peaceful, or was it for the purpose of not disturbing the events to come.  He needed to be taken, for the rest of the events to unfold. Included in the "rebuke" "the cup my father has given me: shall I not drink"
 
It is often discussed b scolars whether it was one of those 'event to unfold' thangs.  Yet, if you take into account Matthews recording, I would suggest that the interpretation is much clearer, the rebuke is much more powerful.  Backed up by Mark with Jesus opening a peaceful end to the arrest. 

 
quote:

My apologies for the use of garden... it was an olive grove.  My confusion is from later in John 18:26 where:
 
"One of the servants of the high priest, being his kinsman whose ear Peter cut off, saith, Did not I see thee in the garden with him?"


Ah, that makes things clearer - I was starting the think I missed something in one of my favourite 'books'!
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:40:22 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

It is exactly the way I read it if there is an encode decode communication problem then lets work on that.

so when you come face to face with Jesus, you can avoid rejection because of an 'honest' mistake.

How is that anything but accusing of dishonesty when you put ' honest'  inside quotation marks?????????



Because 'honest' doesn't really fit - but at a loss for words, it was the closest.  Misunderstood could possibly be a little closer.  But rather than ask my intention and continue a reasoned debate - you made a snap judgement - based on the actions you perform, not upon the way I write.  Judgements, which as you say, you are admonished not to perform.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:42:42 AM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

WTF happened to seperation of church and state?????????????????

(that was using fast reply btw.....)



Not to put too fine a point on it but, the commonly held belief that there is a "seperation of church and state" comes from a private communication between President Jefferson and a friend.
 
Our constitution guarantees that the state cannot impose its will on the church. The state does not enjoy the same protection FROM the church.

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:43:43 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		I too enjoy Matthews recounting of the incident as the man is healed, and thus prevents Peter from being arrested as well for an assault on the man.

There is indeed room for discussion of what is meant by the telling them to sheath their swords, yet none would deny that in that there is at least an acceptance that a man can be armed for defense.

I appreciate you taking this discussion to another level,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:44:46 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Which church would that be? There are dozens, if not hundreds, of different christian denominations.

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(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:48:38 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Absolutely I agree that it is very likely that Jesus was instructing the 'right to arms'.  I also believe (through much personal study and reflection) He went on to advocated the none use of it - or rather self control and self regulation.(If that makes any sense)
 
I have enjoyed this short, yet respectful discussion.  Thank you.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/12/2008 9:49:25 AM >

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: ABC has posted Palin interview excerpts - 9/12/2008 9:54:10 AM   
subtee


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Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


So now, I ask you what is wrong with a person of faith praying that what is about to happen is in accordance with God's plans and desires?  Is this not the same as what some of the subs and slaves do around here almost daily in "I hope master/mistress likes what I am doing", or "I hope that master/mistress enjoys this surprise" ?

Nah, I guess not because that would make the person praying into a normal human being.  Afterall, everybody knows this woman is an extremist.





Why you do that? CL said she didn't say it, so I put up the transcript. Makes me want to tackle you.

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 80
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