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ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'm still getting over "God DAMN America"

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm still getting over "We're fighting God's war."

Geez.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
It would be touching if they were going to Iraq to protect their homeland but they aren't, they are going to Iraq to project US imperial power.

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ORIGINAL: IamElise

I'm still trying to get over any parent who would be smiling proudly and being able to make a speech during their child's departure into that God-forsaken war. Thank goodness that I raised children who question authority and don't have any interest in blowing up brown people.

Not an insult towards those who have loved ones "over there" I just don't get it. Not this war. Not this commander in chief. I believe Sarah, if elected, will at some point become president simply due to McCains age and recuring cancer. If this comes to pass, she'll be one of the biggest war mongers in the history of human kind. She doesn't understand basic diplomacy. Just our way or we'll blow ya'll up.

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ORIGINAL: IamElise

I'm still trying to get over any parent who would be smiling proudly and being able to make a speech during their child's departure into that God-forsaken war. Thank goodness that I raised children who question authority and don't have any interest in blowing up brown people.

Not an insult towards those who have loved ones "over there" I just don't get it. Not this war. Not this commander in chief. I believe Sarah, if elected, will at some point become president simply due to McCains age and recuring cancer. If this comes to pass, she'll be one of the biggest war mongers in the history of human kind. She doesn't understand basic diplomacy. Just our way or we'll blow ya'll up.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'm still getting over "God DAMN America"

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm still getting over "We're fighting God's war."

Geez.

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ORIGINAL: subtee

Yeah, I don't need to read them again and I don't care that you're condescending. That's your shtick and I can take it. I am certainly not arguing in circles; I'm reiterating the point that you obfuscate over. Over and over.

She didn't say that they are going over to fight insurgents who have come into Iraq after we started war there. She said they are going to fight the ones who attacked us in the first place. Her use of past tense matters.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

Glad to see such a rational point of view. 

I do have a problem with one of your statements though, and I highlighted it above.  I take personal offense to that remark.  As one who has proudly worn the uniform of this country, for you to suggest that I do not have the ability to question authority, or that I must have some sort of interest in blowing up "brown people" is disgusting.

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ORIGINAL: subtee

He's referencing Reverend Wright's comment, which has nothing to do with this thread.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius
1. Al Qaeda planned and attacked targets in the US on 9/11.

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2. Iraq had nothing to do with those attacks or the planning.

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3. Al Qaeda is now(and has been) in Iraq fighing US and Iraqi troops.

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4. Those going to Iraq and Afghanistan will be fighting against members of Al Qaeda.

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ORIGINAL: subtee

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ORIGINAL: Thadius
1. Al Qaeda planned and attacked targets in the US on 9/11.

Yes.

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2. Iraq had nothing to do with those attacks or the planning.

Two for two. Very important point which has been inappropriately spun for years by those who know better but had no trouble lying to us. It's so disrespectful and yet, sadly there are many Americans who still believe this.

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3. Al Qaeda is now(and has been) in Iraq fighing US and Iraqi troops.

Not exactly. Quote: "It is true that there are terrorists in Iraq, including many associated with a branch of al Qaida. But the Iraq-based al Qaida has no operational connection to the al Qaida that planned and carried out the 9-11 attacks." [http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/52350.html] (Same article.)

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4. Those going to Iraq and Afghanistan will be fighting against members of Al Qaeda.

Not the ones she meant, if indeed that is what she meant. Which to me is a leap.

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Al Qaeda Discusses Losing Iraq
May 27, 2008:  Al Qaeda web sites are making a lot of noise about "why we lost in Iraq." Western intelligence agencies are fascinated by the statistics being posted in several of these Arab language sites. Not the kind of stuff you read about in the Western media. According to al Qaeda, their collapse in Iraq was steep and catastrophic. According to their stats, in late 2006, al Qaeda was responsible for 60 percent of the terrorist attacks, and nearly all the ones that involved killing a lot of civilians. The rest of the violence was carried out by Iraqi Sunni Arab groups, who were trying in vain to scare the Americans out of the country.

Today, al Qaeda has been shattered, with most of its leadership and foot soldiers dead, captured or moved from Iraq. As a result, al Qaeda attacks have declined more than 90 percent. Worse, most of their Iraqi Sunni Arab allies have turned on them,  or simply quit. This "betrayal" is handled carefully on the terrorist web sites, for it is seen as both shameful, and perhaps recoverable.

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  http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070724-9.html

• The Al Qaeda Terrorists We Face In Iraq Are Part Of The Same Enemy That Attacked The United States On 9/11, And They Still Intend To Attack Us At Home.  While there is a debate in Washington about al Qaeda’s role in Iraq, the facts are that al Qaeda in Iraq is an organization founded by foreign terrorists, led largely by foreign terrorists, and loyal to Osama bin Laden.

Al Qaeda In Iraq’s Founder And His Successor Were Foreign Terrorists, Not Iraqis
Al Qaeda In Iraq Was Founded By Foreign Terrorists Linked To Senior Al Qaeda Leadership.  Al Qaeda in Iraq founder Abu Musab al Zarqawi was not an Iraqi and neither is his successor Abu Ayyub al-Masri.

• Jordanian Terrorist Abu Musab Al Zarqawi Founded Al Qaeda In Iraq And Pledged Allegiance To Osama Bin Laden.
  
  • Before 9/11, Zarqawi ran a terrorist camp in Afghanistan. 
    
  • According to our intelligence community, Zarqawi had longstanding relations with senior al Qaeda leaders and had met with Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. 
    
  • In 2001, Zaraqawi left Afghanistan and eventually went to Iraq to set up operations with terrorist associates after Coalition forces destroyed his Afghan training camp.
    
  • In 2004, Zarqawi and his terrorist group formally joined al Qaeda, pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden, and promised to “follow his orders in jihad.” 
    
  • Bin Laden publicly declared Zarqawi the “Prince of Al Qaeda in Iraq” and instructed terrorists in Iraq to “listen to him and obey him.” 

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: subtee

He's referencing Reverend Wright's comment, which has nothing to do with this thread.

Ah. Thanks.

The difference, of course, is that Rev. Wright isn't running for national office.

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ORIGINAL: subtee

FORT WAINWRIGHT, Alaska, Sept. 11 -- Gov. Sarah Palin linked the war in Iraq with the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, telling an Iraq-bound brigade of soldiers that included her son that they would "defend the innocent from the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/11/AR2008091103789_pf.html

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ORIGINAL: IamElise

Thadius. Over the last 55 plus years, we as a nation have waged wars on people in third world countries who tend to not have financial resorces to fight back on the same par. Those people happen to be of a tanner hue than the majority of Americans. Not to say that Americans with dark skin are not just as dedicated to the military, just noting that the majority have white skin. And certainly most of the commanders. We as a nation had a serious beef with the former Soviet Union for decades. Never did we advance on them personally. I don't know why since weapons of mass destruction seems to be the criteria for invading a country.

Kudos for you for doing what you believe. Maybe it's not so much questioning authority, I'm happy that my children do not agree with people who have placed themselves in authoratative positions.