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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 1:30:51 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

slaveboy,
 
I know this was a reply to slavemike but here is my take on the situation.  As a small female who is often about alone at night I pay close attention to anyone who is either near the ATM machine where I bank or footsteps behind me on the way home.  Their color or clothing is not an issue, rather their level of sobriety or drunkeness.  


Vendeval, I understand what you are saying.  You're a woman, so you are more subsceptible to crimes that I am not.  I don't generally worry about being the target of a sexual assault.  I worry about getting robbed or beat up when I am out alone at night.  I know I am going to catch flak for it, but I am generally more alert around a group of young black males than I am around a group of young white males in the situation I described.  Maybe it's a prejudice, but I don't think I am wrong for feeling that way.  Like I cited earlier, Jesse Jackson felt the same way.

quote:

Slaveboy would you care to guess at the socio-economic factors that contribute to the frightening percentage of young black men under the age of 30 going thru the criminal justice system in this country...look up the numbers in comparison to other ethnic groups,and explain to me why they are so skewed.Is the black race predisposed to criminal activity or is it  possible that there are other explantions for this situation...


I don't need to guess Mike; I am fully aware of the plight of blacks in this country.  I believe 1 in 4 black males is under some type of supervision in the criminal justice system.  Many, many books have been written on the subject of the disproportionate numbers in regards to crime amongst blacks and whites.  It doesn't change what I said.  I don't consider it racism for a convenient store clerk to be more more alert when young black males enter their stores. 

Whites commit crimes, and most of them are from poor backgrounds.  No argument from me there.  But again, I am not afraid to go into a trailer park at night by myself.  You won't catch me anywhere near poor, predominately black neighborhoods at night.  I don't consider that a prejudice.  It's common sense based on what we all know about crime in this country. 

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 1:37:29 PM   
slvemike4u


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Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		But the thread isn't, and my point wasn't to adress  any one's individual bigotry or racism.The thread is about an assertion of "white privilege" in our society.Your points actually draw attention to one of the effects of unequal opportunity and advantage...

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 2:03:25 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Mike I know what the thread is about.  You formed an example about convenient store clerks' prejudices towards young black males.  I addressed it; I don't see it as a symptom of white people's propensity to see black people in a different light.  Your example is a prejudice based on what goes on in the streets of America every night. 

The article is bullshit.  Palin is getting flak for her past.  I find it laughable that the author cites media sources over her education records, than says the media isn't reporting it like they would if she was black.  All the nonsense the author spews is upper-middle class, liberal white guilt that they had advantages others didn't.  I see a lot more obsession with race coming from the left side of the political spectrum than I ever see from the right side.  As I and others have said, black America has been conned year after year by the Democratic party.  It's in the Democratic Party's best interests to stir up class warfare, and racial tension.  Poor people do have ways out of their situation in this country.  As I said earlier, anyone from a poor background can qualify for all sorts of grants, loans, and scholarships to go to college or trade schools.  We don't have any barriers to a higher education for those that apply themselves. 

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 2:09:30 PM   
hoodie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

John Kennedy asked a long time ago whether any white man in this country would willingly trade places with a black man,unfortunately to a large degree we as a society have not reached the point where this is immaterial ...and anyone who disagrees is fooling themselves.Now of course this is a generalization ,but the whole conversation is based on generalizations and as such it is appropriate....when one can say the color of ones skin truly doesn't matter than we will have reached equality...till than in this country it is still by and large a fortunate thing to be white...


I did a few searches, and could not find a single page that attributes the above quote to John F. Kennedy.  A little help with a source, please?


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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 2:32:22 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		The blood running Thur my veins is mixed, My grandmother was a full blooded native American, I have served 23 years in the military, in every little shit hole that America has chosen to become involved , yes my mixed blood has been spilled several time to defend the right of everyone, any color of skin...The bashing of the white race for every little social problem around the world....Its so easy just to say the white man did and has held me back for so long, just bull shit in my opinion...The majority of the white race has more then made up for the mistakes of our past generations...My two cents...

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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 2:35:14 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		tidy wrap up if i may....

Apparently, when discussing race in America, the only major players are whites and blacks...with the occasional Mexican (apparently they are representative of  all Latinos) thrown in for flavor.

Not all whites feel priveleged or guilty about the race problem in America, because they can't be held responsible for the acts of their ancestors, and not all blacks are the helpless waifs begging for help and handouts from generous, guilty white people but actually contribute to society, and find creative ways to live without committing crimes and blaming their plight on the acts committed against their ancestors...did i miss anything?

Oh yes...and Merc is a brother...

That being said...let's be mindful that there are people who do view race as some sort of "qualifier" for a person's worth.  To pretend this doesn't happen, or to pretend it happens less than we know it does is being willfully ignorant.  There are racists in all races...this is a sad part of the American experience. 

Using Bristol Palin as an example of white privelege is pitiful...not every white pregnant teen is a governor's daughter.  This isn't a race thing...it's a status thing.  i think it's irresponsible to use race as underlying reason for every social ill in this country.

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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 2:38:08 PM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Was not the link in the op just an attack on Palin and didn't really go into racial issues in the US?

< Message edited by Raechard -- 9/19/2008 2:39:01 PM >

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(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 2:51:49 PM   
hoodie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Was not the link in the op just an attack on Palin and didn't really go into racial issues in the US?


It was an attack on the Republican ticket, but mainly Palin, yes.

What many have objected to was the titling, "White Privilege",  when truthfully, the Palin's have more privilege than most whites just by their stature in society.





_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to Raechard)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 2:52:46 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since nobody 'lumped' you with anybody else, I fail to see where your (and the other posters') indignation is coming from. Cloudboy posted a link to a site that was clearly addressing a very valid point, which is that different standards are held for white people and for those of a different colour - from my observations, the 'white privilege' page made some seriously valid points. You're denying that Palin's daughter would have been judged radically differently had she been from a different ethnic background, are you? Are you refuting that Obama's experience has been questioned when Palin's has been given a free pass in a certain segment of the press? Would Palin herself not be laughed out of this election were she a single black mother with the same 'credentials' she has (i.e. a soft degree obtained after quite a few laborious years)? Has Obama's impressive academic path been dismissed as irrelevant?

Does this make it any clearer?


I thought it was interesting, that when you changed her race, you also took away the husband. Would it make a difference if she was a married black mother?

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:14:04 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

John Kennedy asked a long time ago whether any white man in this country would willingly trade places with a black man,unfortunately to a large degree we as a society have not reached the point where this is immaterial ...and anyone who disagrees is fooling themselves.Now of course this is a generalization ,but the whole conversation is based on generalizations and as such it is appropriate....when one can say the color of ones skin truly doesn't matter than we will have reached equality...till than in this country it is still by and large a fortunate thing to be white...


I did a few searches, and could not find a single page that attributes the above quote to John F. Kennedy.  A little help with a source, please?

Sorry Hoodie ,I took a few liberties and parphrased a bit...but just look at the transcript fr JFK's civil rights speech ,here is the pertinent section....
   
The heart of the question is whether all Americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities, whether we are going to treat our fellow Americans as we want to be treated. If an American, because his skin is dark, cannot eat lunch in a restaurant open to the public, if he cannot send his children to the best public school available, if he cannot vote for the public officials who will represent him, if, in short, he cannot enjoy the full and free life which all of us want, then who among us would be content to have the color of his skin changed and stand in his place? Who among us would then be content with the counsels of patience and delay?
 


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to hoodie)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:16:14 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Was not the link in the op just an attack on Palin and didn't really go into racial issues in the US?


It was an attack on the Republican ticket, but mainly Palin, yes.

What many have objected to was the titling, "White Privilege",  when truthfully, the Palin's have more privilege than most whites just by their stature in society.




Agreed,but white and poor is still an advantage over black and poor.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to hoodie)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:18:34 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: brokenmind

Mike do you think all wealthy and privileged people were born that way? You cannot change at what socio/economic level you were born into but you can damn sure decide where you end up. 


......up to a point perhaps......but not necessarily. A whole host of factors can put differing levels of resistence in your way....and when higher education is based on the ability to pay then a whole slew of career paths are blocked to those from lower income families.

Higher education is based on a person's willingness to work his or her ass off. The idea that lack of parental income denies educational opportunity to anyone is the biggest load of bullshit there is.

I should know. Only person who contributed a dime to my college degree is me. In the United States, a person who is willing to work towards a college degree can get a college degree. Might not happen in four years, but it can happen.

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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:20:22 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Agreed,but white and poor is still an advantage over black and poor.

Being any color and not poor tops them both.

Being not poor is always the best choice.


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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:21:04 PM   
slvemike4u


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Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		CL the point is there are more hurdles and obstacles to overcome...no one is saying it can not be done..

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:22:29 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

CL the point is there are more hurdles and obstacles to overcome...no one is saying it can not be done..

Then why all the excuses and hand wringing over those who choose not to do it?

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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:28:55 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Was not the link in the op just an attack on Palin and didn't really go into racial issues in the US?


It was an attack on the Republican ticket, but mainly Palin, yes.

What many have objected to was the titling, "White Privilege",  when truthfully, the Palin's have more privilege than most whites just by their stature in society.




Agreed,but white and poor is still an advantage over black and poor.
Really?  i mean, based on the whole idea of "White Privelege",  wouldn't the stigma be taken away some for poor blacks?  According to some, since they're "destined" to be poor, being underpriveleged,  it should be pretty run-of-the-mill.  Now all the poor whites, being priveleged and all...it should be much harder, since apparently it hardly ever happens...based on "White Privelege".  White Privilege can become very inconvenient to poor white people i suppose.

< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 9/19/2008 3:29:56 PM >

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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:31:56 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Higher education is based on a person's willingness to work his or her ass off. The idea that lack of parental income denies educational opportunity to anyone is the biggest load of bullshit there is.

I should know. Only person who contributed a dime to my college degree is me. In the United States, a person who is willing to work towards a college degree can get a college degree. Might not happen in four years, but it can happen.


Exactly, I saw many a person go to college on their parent's dime and flunk out.  I was one of those people.  .   But I went back and finished it. 

I don't feel a damn bit guilty for having privileges that other's didn't.  I am not going to apologize because my parents had money.  For some reason, upper middle class whites think they should feel guilty because their parents weren't janitors. 

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:55:43 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


I should know. Only person who contributed a dime to my college degree is me. In the United States, a person who is willing to work towards a college degree can get a college degree. Might not happen in four years, but it can happen.


...you didn't get some help on the basis of your military service? Not a dig, just asking.

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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 3:58:58 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


I should know. Only person who contributed a dime to my college degree is me. In the United States, a person who is willing to work towards a college degree can get a college degree. Might not happen in four years, but it can happen.


...you didn't get some help on the basis of your military service? Not a dig, just asking.

Of course...time was that was a reason most enlisted....get help with college tuition.

However, it just emphasizes my point: there are many options available to people who are determined to get educated. A premise that people in the US are somehow prevented from obtaining a college degree is simply not true.

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RE: White Privilege - 9/19/2008 4:03:59 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Even if he did get help based on his military service, he earned that help. That means he was the one contributing.

As for the convenience store clerk example, I get nervous looks at many stores.  I am a 6 ft tall white male with long hair and a beard.  I resemble the "biker" stereotype enough that people jump to the conclusion that I am going to be violent.  Occassionally, they jump to the other extreme and assume that I am a wanna be 60s style hippy. 
The funny thing is, I am a well spoken veteran of 2 branches of the military and was even approached torun for public office before leaving Iowa.  Had I actually run and been elected, then I would be robbing people.

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