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RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 9:32:14 AM

christine1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Do farmers consider themselves "high brow" these days?

i think that depends on how much of tan they have.

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(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 21

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 9:33:46 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

I asked a question hereabouts about the vetting of Sara Palin, and was told that in the general estimation, these concerns were felt to be non-issues.

Now, I suspect the same is true of Democrats, they thought about Obama's race, and said, 'non-issue'.

To all the knee-jerkers out here. Nobody other than the low-brow righties have cast any dispersions about what the fallout of race may be.

You ain't hearing anyone crying foul anywhere, other than rightie-tighties.

6

Six, oh sure, Stanford is full of "rightie-tighties."
Where is their campus?
It escapes me now.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to NumberSix)

Post #: 22

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 9:34:38 AM

NumberSix

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Nope, only clowns and businessmen; you see they are alot alike, they both wear suspenders.

Whether or not that will effect a racially motivated groundswell or not, I am not at liberty to say.

6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 23

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:01:55 AM

cyberdude611

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Ever heard of the Bradley Effect? Look it up. It is a phenomenon where people who are racist will say they are voting for a non-white candidate in order to ward off perceptions of racism. Then when they are in the privacy of the voting booth, they vote for the white guy.

They've done studies and found this effect to be significant. In some areas especially where racism is an issue, it can skew opinion polls as much as 10% points.

This effect first documented in 1982 California governors election. Tom Bradley, a black candidate, was going up against George Deukmejian. The polls before election day all consistantly showed Bradely should easily win. Exit polls also showed Bradley winning and the media declared Bradley the winner. However, when the votes were all counted, Bradley lost. Research indicated that some white voters had told pollsters that they were voting for Bradley but when they went to the voting booth, they cast a vote for Deukmejian.

The same exact thing happened in 1989 Virginia governors race between Douglas Wilder and African American Marshall Coleman. The opinion polls in that race were showing Coleman would easily win. But those polls were off by 9% and Coleman lost. Post-election research again showed some white voters lied to the pollsters.

In psychological terms, this is called cognitive dissonance. It is when a person's actions do not comply with their true beliefs. The racist person may even actively campaign for the non-white candidate in order to ward off the racism perception. Then when they are alone in the voting booth, and they know their vote cannot be traced back to them, they vote against that non-white candidate.
When I was in college majoring in psychology, this was one of the things I did a final paper on for a class. And there is a lot of evidence this effect does exist and exist in enough people to change the outcome of an election.

So keep this in mind when you look at the public opinion polls. And on election night, dont put any faith in those exit polls. That is when people are really going to lie. This is actually one of the things I am going to be watching closely on election night because I've done the research on this, and I want to see if it actually happends on a national scale.

(in reply to NumberSix)

Post #: 24

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:09:00 AM

NumberSix

Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

Where is their campus?
It escapes me now.

Do the names Nixon, Reagan, Schwartzenegger ring a bell for you?

how about any of these pinko commies?
Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak;
Alejandro Toledo, former President of Peru;
Warren Christopher, former Secretary of State;
former U.S. President Herbert Hoover;
Dana Gioia, Chairman, National Endowment for the Arts;
William Perry, former Secretary of Defense;
U.S. senators Jeff Bingaman, Kent Conrad, Max Baucus, Ron Wyden and Dianne Feinstein;
Supreme Court Justices Stephen Breyer and Anthony Kennedy and former justice Sandra Day O’Connor

Nevertheless, they did a study, so what? You are completely missing the point while trying to be cute. Was no hue and cry, they simply stated fact, that some will not vote for Obama since he is black, which is no less truth than that Sara Palin shouldn't be promoting birth control by abstinence since her family is the illustration of its failure.

Still no hue and cry.

The whale is undoubtably one of the largest mammals alive today.

There is some other self-evident and intuitively obvious news for you to point out the sky is falling for someone with.

LOL, pops, you kill me!!!!!
6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 25

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:14:13 AM

cloudboy

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I'm not sure if Obama is up for the challenge.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 26

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:17:48 AM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I'm not sure if Obama is up for the challenge.

Link aside, that's probably something the Dems should have considered BEFORE giving him the nomination, huh?

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Post #: 27

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:20:35 AM

NumberSix

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Perhaps the Dems sized up the competition and said we will play the second string with a handicap, and do just fine.

6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 28

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:23:27 AM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Do farmers consider themselves "high brow" these days?

i think that depends on how much of tan they have.

Only from the shirt sleeves down

MrGreenJeansDom

(in reply to christine1)

Post #: 29

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:25:57 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

Perhaps the Dems sized up the competition and said we will play the second string with a handicap, and do just fine.

6

And this is coming from people who say George W. Bush made dumb decisions???

If McCain actually wins this thing, I'm going to be laughing so hard, I might hurt myself.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to NumberSix)

Post #: 30

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:35:32 AM

NumberSix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

Perhaps the Dems sized up the competition and said we will play the second string with a handicap, and do just fine.

6

And this is coming from people who say George W. Bush made dumb decisions???

If McCain actually wins this thing, I'm going to be laughing so hard, I might hurt myself.

LOL, so we should vote with the socialist Republicans, and the racists? that's some real change?

Trust me, this is gonna be a george bush all over again, well we would have won the election, but then we had to go lose 400,000 jobs this month...

anyways, short selling was held up for 90 days the election is less than 50. You don't think these larger financial institutions are going to slash and burn like crazy and clamor to open shorts at the end of the 90 to force out the smaller and snap them up at bargain basement prices?

We will see how many of these folks are looking to be Tim Pawlenty's 'Wal-Mart conservatives'.

It is my view that unless some multitude of dream jobs are created between then and now, McCain doesn't stand a chance.

Now, I could be wrong. But that's my reasoning.

6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 31

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:39:20 AM

cloudboy

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Actually, its not all about winning. I don't subscribe to flushing one's values down the toilet or pandering to assholes to win.

In the end, our country deserves the leadership it selects. Hopefully we will learn from our mistakes.

Whoever wins will inherit a pile of shit. Let's just hope they can stop our national slide and declining living standards.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/20/2008 10:40:23 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 32

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:40:32 AM

Thadius

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Joined: 10/11/2005
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Unless something has changed, short selling is only halted until Oct. 2nd.

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Post #: 33

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:51:16 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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No, don't vote with the racists... whatever you do!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBCzQ1r00cg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpzHQ_PC1uI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oWmw379Lk

quote:

LOL, so we should vote with the socialist Republicans, and the racists? that's some real change?

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to NumberSix)

Post #: 34

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:51:39 AM

NumberSix

Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
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I could be wrong Thadius, but I was watching AIG pretty closely yesterday, (for reasons of my own) on the WSJ site, and I thought I read that the 700+ financial institutions couldnt be shorted for 90 days (or maybe it said up to that, and it comes to the same thing, it will take 30 days for the wise stewards up top to consider the slash and burn) either way, we are going to dump some hella jobs leading up to the election, no two ways about that.

6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 35

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 10:58:39 AM

NumberSix

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Joined: 12/30/2006
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Furthermore, while we are jousting in Simplicityville USA, let us consider that the great multitude of people recently foreclosed on do not have access to phone or internet and are not in a position to explain their views regarding their losing a house but the company gets bailed out.

People of foreclosure, raise your hands! How many are voting for continued de-regulation or outright turning the cheek on finance, and the war, and happy to vote for McCain?

STATS ARE MEANINGLESS in this context.

6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to NumberSix)

Post #: 36

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 11:01:20 AM

DomDolf

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Joined: 7/11/2008
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Since apparently some white Democrats will vote republican simply because Obama is black, I wonder how many Black Republicans will vote for him for the same reason? What about all the independents that will make their decision based on race? Could this offset things?

I believe that when all other factors are considered if a person does not have a clear preference they will either not vote or vote based on party affiliation, religion, race, sex or some other seemingly unimportant matter in the grand scheme of things.

Like it or not, whine, bitch, piss or moan about it, racism is on all sides. As long as people are human there will be racism on all sides. Some will hide it and some will scream it out loud. As far as I'm concerned they are all idiots and we will have those throughout our history too.

I am sure that some people will use anything to explain why their candidate either did or did not win when this all over.

Dolf

< Message edited by DomDolf -- 9/20/2008 11:13:48 AM >

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 37

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 11:38:18 AM

SilverMark

Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
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Popeye,
Ok, My curiosity has gotten the best of me....where is it you find these pearls of wisdom you are always sharing?

Hillary voters for McCain, Obama's health plan covering illegals anymore than we already pay for them?...etc....etc...

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 38

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 11:38:22 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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Hi Heretic,

Thanks for the post.

With respect to Democrats versus Republicans, I found these statements very interesting...

The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home - among his fellow Democrats... Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president - white, black or brown [my italics]...

With respect to race affecting the election, the following seems particularly on point:

more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama... On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks [my italics]...

But when it comes to attitudes toward blacks more generally, the one thing the study didn't look at is black attitudes toward blacks (whether they're voting for Obama or not). For some shocking results, I'd be willing to bet that one would qualify.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/20/2008 11:41:16 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 39

RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 11:40:34 AM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

Furthermore, while we are jousting in Simplicityville USA, let us consider that the great multitude of people recently foreclosed on do not have access to phone or internet and are not in a position to explain their views regarding their losing a house but the company gets bailed out.

People of foreclosure, raise your hands! How many are voting for continued de-regulation or outright turning the cheek on finance, and the war, and happy to vote for McCain?

STATS ARE MEANINGLESS in this context.

6

I agree stats are meaningless on this one. However I do believe you are pointing the finger on this one in the wrong direction. The one person on the ballot that has been pushing for fixing the problem with housing and calling for more regulation is McCain, both in 2002 and 2005 legislation was put up to fix this problem.

To bring this back to the thread topic:

When tightening of regulations were talked about, or when doing away with the NINJA(no income, no job, approved) loans were talked about, folks were called racists and cited as targeting minorities. The fact is that folks of all races were getting these loans, loans that should have never been made. Both party's had their hand in the cookie jar, and both are responsible for where we are. The race factor as ugly as it is, unfortunately is going to play a role in this election.

From reading the original article and some other studies it is clear that at least 1/3 of all white Dems won't be voting for Obama because of his race. However you slice it, that is a huge part of one's own base to be not voting because of something superficial. I suppose the same could be said of those voting for him because of race. There is no previous example to draw any valuable information to make comparisons. The closest is state wide elections, and they aren't very encouraging.

The good news is that some data will be collected with this election cycle, the bad news is that it will be difficult to decipher whether the results are based on race or policy.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to NumberSix)

Post #: 40

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