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RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 11:55:20 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Besides, both candidates have drawbacks. Sure, "intelligent" racist types will avoid Obama. Nothing will change that bias. Nothing.

But, I wonder, how many voters are worried about McCain's highly advanced age? The man is currently showing 1:3 odds (by insurance corperation actuary tables) of not finishing his first term, due to sudden DEATH.

As FOX NEWS noted earlier this week "Palin has nice tits..." but how many REALLY want this woman to be President when she hasn't the vaugest idea about foreign policy, domestic policy, military command.... ?

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 12:27:38 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Good point, Thadius.  Even if polled after casting their votes people may or may not tell the truth about the reasoning behind their choices on particular candidates or policies.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
The good news is that some data will be collected with this election cycle, the bad news is that it will be difficult to decipher whether the results are based on race or policy.


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 1:29:45 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I can only testify towhere one vote will be going.  If we had one candidate who could run without spewing forth partisan hetred, they would have my vote.  The sad part is that they can't.  It is easier for these assholes to whip idiots into a frenzy by using the "us or them" lie.  "They" caused all of the evils in this country.  "We" want to make it all better.  Both major parties say that exact same thing and both will do nothing to help any of us. 
They pay lip service to issues that they could care less about.  They pretend to listen to you when they smile and shake your hand.  Then they vote for the same old garbage that helps none of us.  The few that have actually tried to do anything good for the people of this country either didn't last, ended up becoming corrupted, or are dead due to a "terrible accident."

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 5:43:40 PM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Any brow would be an encouraging sign.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 6:49:09 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		Even though divide and conquer is an ancient tactic it is no less effective now than it was then.

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RE: The race factor - 9/20/2008 7:35:59 PM   
SoulPiercer


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Joined: 5/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf
Since apparently some white Democrats will vote republican simply because Obama is black, I wonder how many Black Republicans will vote for him for the same reason?


I would guess it would be a very small percentage. Speaking from experience, if you're black and typically vote republican, it's because you figured out a long time ago that while the democrats talk a good game, they simply do not deliver. The fact that Obama is bi-racial will not likely earn him that much support from black republicans.



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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The race factor - 9/21/2008 1:39:18 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		General Reply -
 
Here is a poll about this subject, click on the link and scroll down the page for the graphs and results.

"Poll: Racial views steer some white Dems away from Obama"
By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSON, Associated Press Writers

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles."


http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-obama-race;_ylt=AsndlUZu3mL9.brGLL_l88Cs0NUE

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to SoulPiercer)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The race factor - 9/21/2008 2:47:23 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        Ummm... Ven?  You do realize that's the same link I used in the first post, right?

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The race factor - 9/21/2008 7:32:58 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		That was my    moment for the week!
 
Onwards and upwards, take a look at this article about race and religion.
 
 
Op-Ed Columnist
 
"The Push to ‘Otherize’ Obama"

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: September 20, 2008 "What is happening, I think, is this: religious prejudice is becoming a proxy for racial prejudice. In public at least, it’s not acceptable to express reservations about a candidate’s skin color, so discomfort about race is sublimated into concerns about whether Mr. Obama is sufficiently Christian.  
The result is this campaign to “otherize” Mr. Obama. Nobody needs to point out that he is black, but there’s a persistent effort to exaggerate other differences, to de-Americanize him.
 
Raising doubts about a candidate based on the religion of his grandfather is toxic and profoundly un-American, cracking the melting pot we emerged from. Someday people will look back at the innuendoes about Mr. Obama with the same disgust with which we regard the smears of Al Smith as a Catholic candidate in 1928."
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/opinion/21kristof.html?hp

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The race factor - 9/21/2008 9:05:46 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       It's almost hard to believe there was a time when The Times mattered.

      I think people will try to mask the real reason for their choice behind whatever is available.  A cheap smear based on his last name, and another politician who WAS sworn into Congress on the Koran before never being heard from again.

      25 years ago, the poll disparity with the final count was huge in the CA Governor race.  They called it the Bradley Effect, and it amounted to a landslide for the white guy.  I really believe the number will be smaller this time, but we are a long way from perfect yet, and it's going to matter

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The race factor - 9/21/2008 9:52:49 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Have you heard this guy? I mean oh my god! This guy has problems!

http://www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr09-03-08.html

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 9/21/2008 9:53:43 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The race factor - 9/21/2008 10:55:24 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		         OMG, Cyber!  Where did you come up with that link???  I kept checking the margins, figuring it had to be the Onion or something.

       I think I have a new standard reply to people who send me not-funny anti-McC emails.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The race factor - 9/21/2008 11:41:17 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Someone sent it to me. I looked into it and this guy's name is Rev. James David Manning who has a church in Harlem. He's a very big Clinton supporter. He thinks black people are stupid for supporting Obama because the Clintons did more for blacks than Obama has or will.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The race factor - 9/22/2008 12:29:34 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Have you heard this guy? I mean oh my god! This guy has problems!

http://www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr09-03-08.html



Incredible.

Firm

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The race factor - 9/23/2008 9:05:28 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Just read an interesting article.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/liberals_warnings_about_obama.html 

quote:

 
If Barack Obama loses the 2008 election, liberal hell will break loose.

Seven weeks before the 2008 presidential election, liberals are warning America that if Barack Obama loses, it is because Americans are racist. Of course, that this means that Democrats (and independents) are racist, since Republicans will vote Republican regardless of the race of the Democrat, is an irony apparently lost on the Democrats making these charges.

That an Obama loss will be due to racism is becoming as normative a liberal belief as "Bush Lied, People Died," a belief that has generated intense rage among many liberals. But "Obama lost because of white racism" will be even more enraging. Rage over the Iraq War has largely focused on President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. But if Obama loses, liberal rage will focus on millions of fellow Americans and on American society.

And it could become a rage the likes of which America has not seen in a long time, if ever. It will first and foremost come from within black America. The deep emotional connection that nearly every black American has to an Obama victory is difficult for even empathetic non-blacks to measure. A major evangelical pastor told me that even evangelical black pastors who share every conservative value with white evangelical pastors, including pro-life views on abortion, will vote for Obama. They feel their very dignity is on the line.


snip

quote:

 

Andrew Sullivan of The Atlantic: "White racism means that Obama needs more than a small but clear lead to win."

Jack Cafferty of CNN: "The polls remain close. Doesn't make sense ... unless it's race."

Jacob Weisberg of Newsweek and Slate: "The reason Obama isn't ahead right now is ... the color of his skin. ... If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth."

Nicholas D. Kristof of New York Times: "Religious prejudice (against Obama) is becoming a proxy for racial prejudice."

Gerald W. McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, in a speech to union workers: "Are you going to give up your house and your job and your children's futures because he's black?"



The ground work is being put in place and as the article suggests, it may become a self fulfilling prophecy.  Instead of accepting that it may be based on the issues or positions that each candidate and party is presenting, the excuse is being put forth now.

I am not sure whether the race factor will be a wash or if it will play a significant role in this election, I am beginning to doubt whether any data collected from exit polling will be accurate.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: The race factor - 9/24/2008 1:39:15 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

The ground work is being put in place and as the article suggests, it may become a self fulfilling prophecy.

If we are fortunate enough and Biden keeps opening his mouth, this will be a dead issue by the time the election rolls around.

Even so, I still find it extraordinary. For the first time in the history of the United States, a black man has won a major party's nomination for President. But now, if he doesn't get elected on the very first try, it can only be due to racism? Anybody with that much cerebral atrophy shouldn't be allowed out without a keeper.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/24/2008 1:46:52 AM >

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: The race factor - 9/24/2008 2:10:42 AM   
TabrisMaceth


Posts: 190
Joined: 9/23/2008
From: The Ghost Matrix
Status: offline 		Blaming Obama losing solely because of racism is a stretch. You also have to take into account all those pissy Hillary supporters who are basically throwing tantrums because they don't get to vote for the canadite they wanted. Nevermind this about voting for the next leader of this very nation we live in. Oh, no! Democracy is a popularity contest, and should be treated as if we are all twelve year olds!
If Obama does lose, at least we'll have Palin to fall back on when McCain dies of old age. She has a pet grizzly named "Big Ben" and can knock a moose out with a single punch! If you say that's a lie, you're a sexist pig!

-Tabris

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RE: The race factor - 9/24/2008 9:19:56 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I don't have time to read all those articles right now, but the posts seem to miss one point.

Current voter registration is what percentage of those eligible ? How many new registrations are there this year ?

There is a quite large pool of untapped votes out there. There will be some Black people who will register because it is their first chance ever to vote for an OTW candidate. There are no doubts that there is also a contingent of White people who will vote for the first time to keep Obama out.

I have already pointed out that I am White, and I am for Obama. This has nothing to do with race. There is a fairly large contingent of people who will vote Obama regardless of race, of which I am a part. We really can't take four more years.

When I was in business a Black Man came in looking for a job as a tech. He asked if I had a problem with hiring a Black guy, at which point I pulled out a wad of money and pointed to it and said "This is the only color I care about, business is business". I hired him.

This is the same thing only different. (sorry if that saying is on anyone's list of pet peeves, but it fits) I see as we do it the republican way, the beautiful green color of money seems to be fading away. Upscale resorts in other countries won't take the Almighty buck, countries in Europe will do just about anything to avoid it as well, by using euros or whatever.

Not to be cliche, but I think it could be said that the money is greener on the other side. They made it that way. The people in charge. McCain only opposed Bush on a few scant issues, like global warming, big deal. That is a long term problem and can't be solved with knee jerk reactions. Reactions likely to further cripple our economy while we should be tending to it, regrowing it, nurturing it. Helping it recover.

Wake up people, skin color has nothing to do with it, but one day you might wake up and see that the ink has disappeared from your dollars.

T

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RE: The race factor - 9/24/2008 10:02:30 AM   
Taboo4Two


Posts: 170
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: NH, TX
Status: offline 		There is a great deal of current research that shows the "Bradley / Wilder Effect" to be a thing of the past. http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf


In the most recent primary elections Obama consistently outperformed projections in his battle with Clinton. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/persistent-myth-of-bradley-effect.html

Obama might lose because he is black and McCain might lose because he is old. Predjudice is alive and well in 2008.

Domino

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The race factor - 9/24/2008 10:18:59 AM   
Thadius


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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taboo4Two

There is a great deal of current research that shows the "Bradley / Wilder Effect" to be a thing of the past. http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf


In the most recent primary elections Obama consistently outperformed projections in his battle with Clinton. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/persistent-myth-of-bradley-effect.html

Obama might lose because he is black and McCain might lose because he is old. Predjudice is alive and well in 2008.

Domino


Afternoon Domino,

Did you read the study that you linked to first?  They found that there is a definite Bradley (Wilder) effect, especially when it influential.  They suggest that the Whitman effect is a myth.

Secondly, I would suggest that the study in the second link is faulty.  One simple fact is left out of that study, it was a study of the current Dem primary, Bradley and Wilder both won their primaries, thus the theories based on their names are still intact.  Also it doesn't take into account that there were 2 "minorities" running in the primaries, which makes the comparisons even more suspect.

Just my thoughts on it,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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