Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (Full Version)

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Sanity -> Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 2:38:54 PM)


"No energy for you!"


quote:

Here is the text of Reid's proposed new ban on oil shale, that he is trying to add as an amendment to the CR or move seperately as a "stimulus" package, or we should say an anti-stimulus package if this is included.
Sec 1602 continues ban on oil shale. The language follows:

SEC. 1602. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, including section 152 of division A of H.R. 2638 (110th Congress), the Consolidated Security, Disaster Assistance, and Continuing Appropriations Act, 2009, the terms and conditions contained in section 433 of division F of Public Law 110–161 shall remain in effect for the 19 fiscal year ending September 30, 2009.
It would be an insult to all Americans if Senate Democrats worked to bailout Wall Street while damaging our future prosperity by banning development of vast energy reserves in oil shale.

http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=JimsJournal.Detail&Blog_ID=9a2397c9-e8a5-2da3-c8a3-2cd5fe8fa96b



thornhappy -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 3:06:27 PM)

Which extraction method are they using?  Older methods use hellacious amounts of water, which is in short supply in the oil shale locations. 

thornhappy



farglebargle -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 3:30:58 PM)

GOOD.

The sooner we get off our asses and develop Space Solar, the sooner we WIN. Too bad we didn't start sooner, huh?

Petrochemicals are for losers.




kittinSol -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 4:04:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

"No energy for you!"



Does this mean we'll get to see you pedalling to get the generator going? Will you wear those bicycle shorts [8D] ?



slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 4:32:46 PM)

Hahahahahahaha!!!



Vendaval -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 5:33:35 PM)

Knowing where the deposits are located and being able to extract the oil efficiently and cleanly are two different issues.  Here is the quick and dirty low-down on the process complete with nifty diagrams and cross-sectional representations of geological strata.


JPT Online
Official Publication of The Society of Petroleum Engineers

"Oil-shale extraction technology has a new owner"

1 February 2008 in Facilities (PFC), HSE, Production (PO), US/Canada

"Oil shale is a type of sedimentary rock that contains solid bituminous material, known as kerogen, that releases oil or gas when heated. While oil-shale deposits are found in many places around the world, the largest deposits by far reside in the Rocky Mountain region of the U.S. Oil-shale reserves are estimated at nearly 2 trillion bbl in the states of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming alone, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. This quantity would be sufficient to meet U.S. demand at current levels for the next 250 years.

However, successfully harvesting this vast resource has been technically, economically, and environmentally challenging. The most common methods of recovering oil shale include a mining step, in which the shale is mined from the surface or underground and then transported to a facility for further processing. The waxy, solid nature of the shale necessitates a heating process, known as retorting, to release the trapped oil and allow it to flow out of the rock matrix.

The large environmental and processing costs associated with this method of oil-shale extraction have prevented it from becoming a major petroleum source. According to an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) prepared by the U.S. Department of the Interior’s Bureau of Land Management, the environmental impacts include emission of greenhouse gases during mining and processing, disturbance of mined lands, need for disposal of the spent shale, use of water resources, and impacts on air and water quality. These factors contribute to the relatively high cost of producing oil from shale, which the EIS estimates at greater than USD60/bbl."

http://updates.spe.org/index.php/2008/02/01/oil-shale-extraction-technology-has-a-new-owner/



slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 5:37:43 PM)

In other words, another energy red herring Vendaval...



bipolarber -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 5:55:51 PM)

But you have to admit, it "sounds good" politically...



DarkSteven -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 6:27:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
It would be an insult to all Americans if Senate Democrats worked to bailout Wall Street while damaging our future prosperity by banning development of vast energy reserves in oil shale.



Oh boy.  Now it's coming.  "Everyone ELSE got to eat at the taxpayer trough big time.  Why not MY special interest?"

This is complete bullshit and just one of the reasons that the bailout cannot go through.

Last I heard, oil shale wasn't worth it because it was too hard to extract the oil.  Great idea for research, but nowhere near implementation yet.



MsRobinSanders -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 6:47:03 PM)

Looking for more information...Who is the Reid you are referring to and who does he work for? And what entity controls the petroleum and gas  extraction from shale?



Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 6:48:07 PM)


Roughly half the price we're paying Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada and Iran, etc.

Thanks for the link, Ven.

quote:

These factors contribute to the relatively high cost of producing oil from shale, which the EIS estimates at greater than USD60/bbl."



slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 6:50:32 PM)

So The Enviormental Impact Statement meant nothing to you Sanity?



Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 6:50:43 PM)


This isn't for any bailout, it's just lifting the ban on this type of American energy production.

And if it's too hard to extract the oil from it, why the Democratic ban. What's the use?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Oh boy.  Now it's coming.  "Everyone ELSE got to eat at the taxpayer trough big time.  Why not MY special interest?"

This is complete bullshit and just one of the reasons that the bailout cannot go through.

Last I heard, oil shale wasn't worth it because it was too hard to extract the oil.  Great idea for research, but nowhere near implementation yet.




Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 6:54:08 PM)

Harry Reid is the top Democrat in the United States Senate. The shale is on public and private lands throughout the West, but especially concentrated (I believe) in Colorado and Utah.

Who controls the oil and gas?

American companies, hopefully. Why send all our energy dollars overseas, when we have vast untapped reserves right here...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsRobinSanders

Looking for more information...Who is the Reid you are referring to and who does he work for? And what entity controls the petroleum and gas  extraction from shale?



Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 6:55:11 PM)


Are Democrats against tapping any and all sources of domestic energy?

It certainly seems that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So The Enviormental Impact Statement meant nothing to you Sanity?



slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 7:04:27 PM)

Answer the question please Sanity,you plucked one central idea out of Vendaval's post and you ran with it...totally ignoring the body of the link...I would like to know what you think of the environmental concerns ...are Republicans for any domestic energy source,no matter how dirty and environmentally harmful?



philosophy -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 7:12:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Are Democrats against tapping any and all sources of domestic energy?

It certainly seems that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So The Enviormental Impact Statement meant nothing to you Sanity?



........well, the environmental impact of utilsing oil shale is enormous. Certainly way more than other ways of getting hold of petroleum. Now, two schools of thought here......one, you have to factor in the environmental impact into the cost of the oil; two, you don't have to, because that cost will be paid by tax payers not yet alive.
Most of us are in the option one camp...where are you Sanity?



Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 7:20:19 PM)


According to Vendeval's article, the extraction process is "environmentally challenging" phil, but that doesn't mean that concerns can't be mitigated and properly balanced against the good of the American people who truly need affordable energy and an economy that isn't funneling every last dollar overseas.

An outright total ban on every energy source other than a few things like wind and solar is  totally irresponsible leadership.



MsRobinSanders -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 7:20:58 PM)

Thanks Sanity.
I am for any development of energy resources that are American in order to reduce the HUGE ($700 billion per year) amount of money that we Americans pay for the amount of oil that we buy overseas...some 70% of the oil we use is imported.

BTW Shale is also cracked for natural gas and we have enough to last us a long long time. (250 years)



slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 7:23:45 PM)

And the embracing of any old dirty energy source is enviormentally irresponsible leadership



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