RE: You Call Yourself a What?

RE: You Call Yourself a What? (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/1/2008 6:40:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CookieSlave quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 A good example of using labels to minimize others rather than to build a relationship. This tendency of yours comes out in several ways in your posts. It is why people who actually do the real-life thing successfully are saying that you are thinking about this wrong. SailingBum was correct, and clear. If you choose to find no value in his words, that's on you, not him. Now that has got to be one of the smartest things I've seen in this thread. [;)] -cs Written by one of the smartest posters on the boards.

SlyStone -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/1/2008 7:13:47 PM)
"It is why people who actually do the real-life thing successfully are saying that you are thinking about this wrong." So now we have degenerated to the real against online thing, not withstanding that I engage in bdsm in real life, as if that makes me better or smarter than someone who does this online or who is in a long distance phone relationship or whatever, because it doesn't. Who are we to judge someones perceptions and opinions on if they "do the real life thing". That is a slippery slope that I do not care to venture on. So tell me, what exactly are you basing your presumption on, that all real life successful people posting here disagree with me, and what does that have to do with anything at all? Why not just say that you disagree with me, and you are right and I am wrong, and that is that. I wouldn't give it much credence since you haven't provided an argument that changes my opinion, but I would respect you for voicing your opinion. But when you speak of and for "the people", you lose me, and yeah, that's on me for sure.

RedMagic1 -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/1/2008 9:30:51 PM)
Again a slam instead of a concrete response. You say I speak for "the people" -- in quotes -- when the words "the people" do not appear in my post. Who on this thread has agreed with you? I'm counting nobody. Do you think every single poster on the thread is a fake profile operated by a horny net geek? I'm willing to believe that at least somebody on the thread does or has done real-life D/s successfully. Aren't you? You write like someone who is frustrated and confused. If you were happy with your relationship status, and your ability to meet kinky women, would you even have written the OP? There's no slippery slope here. There's just you, revealing a lot more about yourself than perhaps you realize. Good luck.

ranja -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 12:44:23 AM)
Ooh eeh, emotions flying, did a nerve get touched? people who never met and who might perhaps even have labelled eachother as ...fake...all flustered about...labels....this is why i like cyber as well as real ....the emotions are just the same even though the labels might suck, and unless your computer get a virus it is decease free, jippy. Be well everybody

Evility -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 2:56:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 It is why people who actually do the real-life thing successfully are saying that you are thinking about this wrong. I do the real-life thing rather successfully myself (thank you very much) and I happen to agree with a fair amount of what Sly has written in this thread. The only point where we differ is that I am smart enough not to debate it with the masses here. The dude who was brave enough to speak up about the emperor's wardrobe was not well received either.

WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 4:25:45 AM)
I've been using CM for a few years now. In regards to most of the people I have encountered they all have been pretty real. Sure, a few full of bullshit, but they are in the minority compared to the rest. Then again, i'm not exchanging emails with everybody on this website. In fact, I've been pretty selective in the profiles I have responded to in the past. I honestly can't say that most of the people on here are full of bullshit and have labels shoved up their ass. I have seen a few of these types wander into the message boards and generally they get lynch mobbed over some stupid post they make. In terms of myself, I come with subtitles and multiple labels. I'm way more beside a Male Dominant. However I use the labels and terms that best fit me instead of me trying to fit inside of the labels. If you ask me it's not very Dominant to attempt to live my life to some sort of stereotyped idealism of a label anyways. I really don't need somebody's approval or rating system to inform me of what I am or I am not. I know myself far better compared to anybody else. I would hope anybody who is using a label are using the ones that best fit them as well. First and foremost, I look to see how much of a real person somebody is compared to how much of a real label that they are. Those who tend to shove the fact we all are human off to the side, I tend to question the level of fantasy land their mind is in. There's this thing called reality, some people don't seem to have a good grip on it at times. Sure keeping a slave shoved in a permant Latex catsuit might sound hot as hell, but.... it's not realistic. Actually such things speaks volumes alone about a persons real experiences are as well. No matter how experienced somebody proclaims to be, the truth often is revealed in the things they express. All you have to do, is kick listen listen and read what the other person is sharing with you. Plus there are frequent misconception and stereotypes about BDSM and the lifestyle, that well anybody with any amount of experience will quickly be able to spot it as well. In terms of Dominants confused and lost by the concept of control, LOL.. it's because they really are. In fact many of them simply believe it's about barking out and giving commands and orders. There are many Doms that are incapable of training and controling a small dog much less submissive human partner. Simply telling a dog what to do or not to do, does not mean it's automatically going to happen. In fact, many of the the best trained and behaved dogs actually trust and love their owners. Plus, it makes a difference in the temperment of the animal. Some people pick out Dogs with crappy dispositions and personalities and expect miricals from these animals. The same can be said about our pick in relationship partners, a Dominant has to use some judgement and take responsibility for thier own choices, even the crappy ones. But yes, there are Doms that are confused by control. This is why I appreciate seeing members such as Leadership527 make posts on here. So some of us, we have had to lead, control and manage groups/teams of people. Some of us know how these basic principals apply to D/s personal relationships and vice versa. It's far more involved then barking out orders of "on your knees bitch". Because no bitch is really getting down on their knees unless they want to do it. You can get people to do some pretty amazing things, if they trust you, believe in you, look up to you. They are actually getting something out of it as well. Being a Dominant is no excuse or a license to become a self centered asshole in life, one with unrealistic expectations, that's not grounded in reality, no excuse for letting insecurity or being so in love with yourself that people loose respect, trust and faith in you. There are certain qualities that will turn anybody off, including Animals. Some animals don't like certain types of people. Hell, Animals can sense this bullshit as well. So just because one enjoys and has a thrist to be in control of a D/s relationship does not mean it's going to automatically happen. In case you have not noticed there are people that are drawn to this lifestyle with the notion they can pick up some cheap easy slave that does not give a fuck about anything. Basically, they have this notion they will find somebody that will put up and deal with their dysfunctional Bullshit. Nothing wrong with a submissive having limits, every human being has limits and should know what they are or are not. A responsible Dom will know how far to push these limits and work within these limits. Not sit and complain because they don't own a true slave that has no limits. Hell, even in regards to cultures and history where slavery was legal, there were laws regarding the treatment of slaves. Even society itself has had a say in what is or is not proper treatment of slaves. The things about limits is that people only think in the context of BDSM play activities and they loose track of limits in other areas. A person without any limits is a bit like expecting to find the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. After all, Murder is a limit for many people, along with stealing, burning down buildings, or whatever else. Legal or not, these things are often limits for many people. Some people get so wrapped up in BDSM that they forget to look at their whole life. They get confused by their own fantasy escapism because reality fucks with their world. People pop into this message board every day and make a post about why they can't find anybody real or this or that. People bitching about subs/slave with too many limits. Doms/Masters that have unrealistic expectations or with having too many unrealistic expectations of what a Dom or Master should be. LOL... reality has a way of fucking with fantasy time and time again. When reality fucks with your fantasy world, all the bitching and rants in the world does little to change it.

juliaoceania -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 5:24:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Evility quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 It is why people who actually do the real-life thing successfully are saying that you are thinking about this wrong. I do the real-life thing rather successfully myself (thank you very much) and I happen to agree with a fair amount of what Sly has written in this thread. The only point where we differ is that I am smart enough not to debate it with the masses here. The dude who was brave enough to speak up about the emperor's wardrobe was not well received either. What exactly do you agree with? Personally I do not agree or disagree with him... all he has done is present his opinion about strangers and what they mean by their labels, what they are trying to say about themselves. His view is that they are confused... I know a lot of people who would think that everyone on this site is deeply confused about who we are, what we want from our relationships, etc..... I wonder how you feel when your lifestyle, your relationship... etc... is trashed by society at large? Most people on the outside do not know what we mean by our labels... unfortunately there does not seem to be much understanding within the culture either.... I agree with redmagic, he sounds rather frustrated, he is the one complaining here after all (and defensive too). Now he can continue to belittle those he claims to want to understand, or he can ask those same people what their expectations are as he gets to know them. It is not that hard to understand that many sub types are afraid of being harmed by dominant types (and that fear is justified). It is not easy to trust another person to completely take control over you, and unless you have been there, you really do not know how scary that can be. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand why someone would list lots of limits on a profile on a site like this. What I think when I hear a dominant type complain about submissives having too many limits is that they lack empathy for us, and they do not want to take the time to understand us and why we may fear that which we crave. That is just my opinion... I would never be interested in someone that complained about such things

SlyStone -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 5:26:21 AM)
"Again a slam instead of a concrete response." Funny how everything you type is concrete and everything I type is a slam. I had no idea you were so sensitive :) You say I speak for "the people" -- in quotes -- when the words "the people" do not appear in my post. Actually I don't say you speak for the people, I say you think you speak for the people. Perhaps you do, perhaps you are the final word on all things bdsm, but based on your postings here I kinda doubt it. I am still not clear why you grasp for the approval of "people" at all, rather than take a stand for yourself. Personally I could care less if I am agreed with here, but I think that is a difference between you and I. "You write like someone who is frustrated and confused. If you were happy with your relationship status, and your ability to meet kinky women, would you even have written the OP?" So now I am unhappy and have trouble meeting kinky woman and you have determined my motivation for writing the post, AND you have learned all that by reading what, about 6 or 7 postings? Your presumption and your bumbling attempt at amateur psychoanalysis, directed personally at me , are equally astounding to me. WhiplashSmile that is a great post and I am going to have to reread it when I have time and comment than.

oceanmaiden56 -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 1:26:24 PM)
What about all these slaves/subs who call themselves "girl" when they are over 40? It has been a long time in the past, sweethearts, and you cannot continue to live in the past. Grow up! Especially if you have kids. Slaves/subs are people too, and I am proud to call myself a "woman" sub. Don't put labels on yourself as far as age goes; whether your young or old or in between. Be honest with yourself, like yourself, and no labels and more people will like you.

DesFIP -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 5:42:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Evility I do the real-life thing rather successfully myself (thank you very much) and I happen to agree with a fair amount of what Sly has written in this thread. The only point where we differ is that I am smart enough not to debate it with the masses here. The dude who was brave enough to speak up about the emperor's wardrobe was not well received either. But Evility, how many people are you looking for to have a relationship with? If only one or two, then what does it matter if you restrict your search to plumbers who only work on first floor, gold fauceted sinks. There may be ten thousand different plumbers around but you won't be a perfect fit with the others. I didn't want to be a submissive, I wanted to be the right one's submissive. And it didn't matter to me how many other plumbers were waving their snakes at me, because I wasn't letting any wrong snakes in my drain. Only the right one. The difference I see is that the op thinks you should allow any old snake in your drain. And I think you should hold out for just the one that completes you. Which is why I am proud to say that I am not a submissive, I'm his submissive. Because if I hadn't met him, I might well not be anyone's submissive.

IronBear -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/2/2008 8:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SlyStone If a "plumber" were to state on his card that he only fix's first floor bathroom sinks with gold plated faucet handles, there will no doubt be a few people with first floor gold plated faucet handles with overflowing sinks in need of a professional plunger, but for the most part this is not going to help most people looking for a plumber to fix a garbage disposal spewing out last weeks spaghetti dinner. There are submissives who have a list of limits longer than their list of interests and there are dominants confused and conflicted by the concept of control. I really don't care about that, but I think if they would be honest about their bdsm needs they would probably meet each other and live happily ever after in conflicted bliss, and save the rest of us who are looking for someone or something more honest a great deal of time and effort. I know labels suck, and many people refuse to take them on, but it seems to me, and I may be wrong, that the vast majority of people in the bdsm community, especially the online community, do in fact take on labels, and people searching for partners use these labels as guideposts. They are stark one word declarations of who or what we are, the problem is that they may in fact be real or they may be delusional yearning for what we want to be or wish we were. I realize that there are no bdsm label police that are going to go around calling out impostors, and we all have to use our own filters to filter out the bullshit from the reality, I am just wondering if people think about the bdsm label they take on, does it have any meaning to them, or is it just a convenient way to broadly define themselves. In other words do we define our labels as we go, or are certain labels so defining that if we chose them are we implicitly accepting certain inherent defining characteristics? Speaking only for my self the answer is a resounding afirmative. As new interests take hold or old ones no longer hold any joy for me I'll mofify my profile accordingly. However I will list few subjects I refuse to tak part in, not because I will participate in most areas, but because I prefer to tackle those matters on a person to person basis and thus reduse the negatives in my profile.

fragilepieces -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/3/2008 4:39:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oceanmaiden56 What about all these slaves/subs who call themselves "girl" when they are over 40? It has been a long time in the past, sweethearts, and you cannot continue to live in the past. Grow up! Especially if you have kids. Slaves/subs are people too, and I am proud to call myself a "woman" sub. Don't put labels on yourself as far as age goes; whether your young or old or in between. Be honest with yourself, like yourself, and no labels and more people will like you. I'm over forty. If my Master says, "good woman" versus "good girl" I doubt it will have the same effect, as a matter of fact I'll probably giggle like a school girl...opps 'school woman'. Edited to add: Being called girl has almost a humbling effect. That is the reason I enjoy being called girl although I do not refer to myself as girl, he does. "Come here girl, good girl.." I do not think the label girl has anything to do with maturity in this case.

ranja -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/3/2008 9:49:48 AM)
No woman of any age would want to lose their inner girl would they? is it even possible? On the other hand if i get approached here and some Dominant opens His mail to me saying Hello girl...i do feel He is taking liberties and it is unlikely we will be compatible (...and oh dare i admit it...immediately i will label Him as a Gor person or inexperienced)

oceanmaiden56 -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/4/2008 2:55:49 AM)
You make a good and valid point. When my Dom praises me by saying, "good girl", I must admit I usually end up with a smile and that I have pleased him. But it's the female sub/slaves who write things like, "girl is looking for a Master", that gets my panties in a bunch. Who are they trying to kid? I just don't understand.

oceanmaiden56 -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/4/2008 3:05:58 AM)
I like the way you think, ranja. You are certainly right about the "inner girl". There are certainly occasions when I laugh or cry like a little girl. But, I just cant stand to read some female sub/slave's message referring to themself's as "girl". Is that normal talk for a female sub/slave? Girl is sooooooooo confused.

colouredin -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/4/2008 3:12:27 AM)
FR To the OP in my view there is a bit of a mix as to why people pick the labels that they do. When I first picked the label submissive that was the label I most identified with however I also felt that it meant that i had to mold myself around that term. I dont now and my definition of the label is far more moulded around me. In fact in my current relationship I am refered to as slave because of the meanings that the Dominant attaches to the word, but really it doesnt much matter. It all does come down to semantics I think because there isnt one rule for what the words do mean. We catagorise everything as human beings even though the catagories placed on humans are ever changing. Your OP seemed to state an element of anger and one true wayism which I would expect lead to flaming, the statement to do with subs having lists of limits clearly implying being this way mitigates the title of sub, in fact I would suggest the bulk of the OP has very little bearing on the question you asked at the end. So were I to respond to what you were actually saying there isnt anything that mitigates the personal use of a label it doesnt matter. I could tell you that I was a giant green monster and it would make no differance to me whether you believed it or not if it was something that I came to identify with in my every day life. It seems so often to come down to compatability if you dont like what you read then move on to someone else. It really shouldnt matter to you why generic people choose a label its theirs and they own it. Sure within this context its a handy way to search for people but at the same time CM misses out many options it could include so could well be even the people themselves dont like the label. In an online capacity its mearly a tool. In a real life capacity it is who we are for our own reasons and I kinda understand why people get offended when who they are is questioned

SlyStone -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/4/2008 6:01:01 AM)
I liked your post, I think both you and Julia made very good points as to why you were/are offended by the OP. If I could summarize, you think I am trashing people for being confused and conflicted, and in Julias case I think she also feels that I am attacking the lifestyle/community as a whole. No one wants to be told how to feel or how to act, and no one wants to be criticized for being who they are. It is a fair argument, and I get it. In my opinion the false argument. which appears to be the prevalent one on this thread, is be to say that all labels are created equal, because I don't think they are. To compare being a father or mother or sister or brother to being a dominant or a submissive or even a slave doesn't work for me, it may for you. Personally I see BDSM labels as being to fluid and to self defined to bare comparison. I am not saying that the role is any less important or meaningful, I am saying that there is difference. And by "role" I do not mean acting a part, I realize that these are internalized expressions of self. I realize many here will disagree with this, and I welcome hearing from you. Again, I was not talking necessarily about people here or anywhere for that matter, my comments were generalized to people who practice bdsm, and within that generality, people who chose self imposed titles/labels. At times there appears to be a conflict between the title and reality and I was wondering what is the cause of that disconnect. If that is ranting than so be it. I do feel it is naive to believe that there is no deception, be it self deception or covert deception, within the bdsm community. It seems that a world where someone can show up here or pop up at their neighborhood dungeon and declare themselves to be something, anything , it is not unreasonable to question motive and intent and just because this is an outlaw lifestyle does not mean that it should be exempt from examination.

colouredin -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/4/2008 6:24:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SlyStone In my opinion the false argument. which appears to be the prevalent one on this thread, is be to say that all labels are created equal .... people who chose self imposed titles/labels. At times there appears to be a conflict between the title and reality . Ok well personally i dont think you can have a value judgement to a label, I dont think that the title mother is any better or worse that the title slave. They are just words being a mother doesnt mean anything other than having a child and being a slave doesnt mean anything other than having that relationship. A relationship is lived out among the people in the relationship, no two mothers are the same no two slaves are the same. However I would say a better comparison would be teacher. What is a teacher? Is it simply people who are trained and get paid for imparting knowledge on students? cant a friend be a teacher? there isnt a specific definition for it. My teacher may be your dunce just as my submission may be nilla to you. It doesnt really matter because its mine not yours. Personally i didnt choose my current title, I chose submissive initially because that is the term with which I identified just as a teacher may choose trainer or guide. I am called slave within my current relationship because that is what he chooses to call me therefore its not self imposed but it is imposed. What I wonder is who has the right to decide who can impose these titles but ourself. Look at the labelling theory, if a child is labeled stupid people will treat him as such and he will fit the label however its up to the child to accept the label, it can be shrugged off and not become a self fullfilling prophecy. A mother can shrug off the label mother we choose to let the labels stick no one else so in that regard all labels are self imposed or at least self accepted. If someone were to tell me i was a bottom i would tell them they were wrong, they could call me it as much as they wanted but it wouldnt affect me, it wouldnt stick because i dont associate with the term. I believe there is deception especially online, I know of many men pretending to be women but thats not really what we are talking about here, what we are talking about is how submissive is submissive enough to use the term. When people say fake often what they mean is that the person doesnt have the same opinion as them, I dont walk around calling hitler fake because he wasnt. I am sure there are also people in the lifestyle that say they are interested in something that they arent, sure thats dishonest but again its not really what we are talking about. You are talking about people calling themselves submissive when they dont fit your definition of what submission is. Seriously do a search on submission vrs slave see how peoples definition of the terms differ. There isnt one authority who gets to pick, sorry.

RedMagic1 -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/4/2008 8:01:19 AM)
Sly, look at this pragmatically. How much time did you take making your profile? I took about ten minutes, over a year ago. I've updated it slightly every few months, swapping in something I did that I thought was cool, and changing the list of CD's I'm listening to. That's it. Is your own profile a masterpiece of introspection that reveals your innermost soul to the world? Or is it something you put together when you were in a particular mood, at a particular moment? I ignore profiles, pretty much. I couldn't give a crap about the limits women write on their profiles. What I care about is if she has a heart and a brain. If she trusts me, her limits will change, because she will want to be around me, want to please me, want to explore with me. Fer crissake, I got a letter 48 hours ago from a lady with a prodomme seeking-clients-only badass-as-hell profile, where she's telling me she enjoys being spanked by someone she trusts. Human beings are not static. They are dynamic. Their needs and desires change based on the situation they are in. They change based on how much you can inspire them to change. You make it sound as though it is a weakness of mine that people agree with me. I don't see how it is a bad thing that a lot of women think that I "get" where they are coming from, and want me in their lives. It certainly has made things more fun for me. Between CM and two other sites, I've now met 19 or 20 women online-to-real since May 2007, and I've decided to stop counting. I know for a fact that some men have met more than me, and others have met fewer and found someone they decided to marry. In my own case, as a result of those meetings, I've made a small handful of longterm Platonic friends, and a small handful of longterm friends with kinky benefits. The second woman I ever met from CM called me a couple days ago, and asked me to visit her as soon as I could. I said yes. Unfortunately, part of the reason is that she has a problem she needs some help with, but it's clear she wants to do more than just problem-solve while I'm there. Who cares what people call themselves in a profile? What matters is how they behave in real life.

juliaoceania -> RE: You Call Yourself a What? (10/4/2008 9:01:28 AM)
quote: But, I just cant stand to read some female sub/slave's message referring to themself's as "girl". Is that normal talk for a female sub/slave? Girl is sooooooooo confused. In Gor it is.... Some subs have been taught to refer to themselves this way.

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