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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 12:51:53 PM   
RCdc


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ORIGINAL: shymetalsub

Well, a simple question really. Discuss!


How do you discuss a yes or no answer?  Seriously?
Anyway.  It's cool to admit to being an atheist.  It's uncool to admit you have a faith or belief - unless it's thought of as cool by the atheists, like Buddhism.
Being an atheist gives you the ability to be nasty about people who have faith like it's a god given right.  Oh the irony.
Being a person of faith means you are automatically accused and condemmed of being judgemental by cool people.
If your an agnostic, you either want to be cool, or are really uncool but are to scared to admit either.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:16:55 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
the whole issue is a none issue without evidence of god's existence.

The issues then become: how do you define God, and what do you consider evidence?


Its not for me to define god since I don't believe there is anything to define, its for those that believe to define god and prove their hypothesis.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:30:04 PM   
RCdc


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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Its not for me to define god since I don't believe there is anything to define, its for those that believe to define god and prove their hypothesis.


I don't get that mentaility though meatcleaver.  People don't have to prove their hypothesis to me whatever deity they worship because it doesn't involve me.  Why is it up to people of faith to prove one way, when people of non faith believe they have no need to prove the other?  Why do you not believe that it works both ways?
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/2/2008 1:31:19 PM >

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:33:00 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		I have tried too many times to not believe in gods and theisms, but it always comes back, in one form or other, a new direction, or more of the old stuff I tried to rid in the first place. The odd thing is, if I follow a new direction, it always comes back to what I believed before the trying to rid it and then the new direction. So I guess whether I like it or not, there is a something out there. What that something is, the Christian god or the god of gods that is at the head of all faiths that man follows, I just do not know, but there is something beyond us humans, or are we that arrogant to think ourselves above everything else.

It's not the seperate faiths that interest me, but the majority of people that follow those faiths, the majority believe in goodness to mankind, it is I believe a thing that most beliefs in the world have a common set of goals, and that is the teaching of being nice to each other, which is hardly a bad thing in any era of this world.

Whether the bible is a factual report or a set of cryptic clues, it matters not, what matters is those that interpret what they read and go on to be decent to others.

My belief system forbids the hate and ridicule of other beliefs, it teaches that other beliefs are simply other routes to take to the same destination.


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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:35:40 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

  Why is it up to people of faith to prove one way, when people of non faith believe they have no need to prove the other?  Why do you not believe that it works both ways?


......well logically, you're suggesting that aethists prove a negative.
At least from that pov. Those that believe and that then try to get others to believe do have a burden of proof. Those that do not believe have literally nothing to prove.
For myself i find the whole subject of belief moot. Torture or kill someone and i don't give a flying shit whether God or nihilism told you to do it. i'll judge such a person on their actions, not their beliefs.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:40:31 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Its not for me to define god since I don't believe there is anything to define, its for those that believe to define god and prove their hypothesis.
If you refuse to define God, then you are by definition unable to accept the commensurate evidence of his existence. So your demand for evidence is frivolous.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:43:52 PM   
Raechard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
My belief system forbids the hate and ridicule of other beliefs, it teaches that other beliefs are simply other routes to take to the same destination.


Nonsense. Someone must be right and someone must be wrong therefore ridicule must follow. You are either ridiculing someone else or ridiculing your own beliefs by accepting the beliefs of others when you believe them to be untrue.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:45:45 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
My belief system forbids the hate and ridicule of other beliefs, it teaches that other beliefs are simply other routes to take to the same destination.


Nonsense. Someone must be right and someone must be wrong therefore ridicule must follow. You are either ridiculing someone else or ridiculing your own beliefs by accepting the beliefs of others when you believe them to be untrue.


.......i don't agree. Ridicule is not an inevitable consequence of being proved wrong. i'm fairly sure Einstein didn't take the piss out of Newton.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:46:11 PM   
RCdc


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ORIGINAL: philosophy
......well logically, you're suggesting that aethists prove a negative.
At least from that pov. Those that believe and that then try to get others to believe do have a burden of proof. Those that do not believe have literally nothing to prove.
For myself i find the whole subject of belief moot. Torture or kill someone and i don't give a flying shit whether God or nihilism told you to do it. i'll judge such a person on their actions, not their beliefs.


Well, I agree on the last point Phil.  My question is why do atheist insist on proof from people of faith.  I don't understand that at all.  If someone says 'Im a christian' then I say 'great for you!'.  Then I watch their actions and decide if we are compatable as friends.  If someone says 'Im an atheist' I act exactly the same way.  In general, when I mix with people of different faiths and cultures, I never see them insisting on proof of the other, but with atheists I find that a consistant thing.  I also find ridicule a big part of an atheists personality on the ones I have encountered on a personal level - and that is highlighted and supported by peoples behaviour on the boards.  Of course there are exceptions and I am being very generalistic, but its just personal observation.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:47:26 PM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Now that is nonsense. Not everyone has an interest in redicule. Just because I happen to enjoy it does not mean others do.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:49:16 PM   
Raechard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
.......i don't agree. Ridicule is not an inevitable consequence of being proved wrong. i'm fairly sure Einstein didn't take the piss out of Newton.


He did I was there...

quote:

Original: Einstein 
That Newton thinks time is a constant, fucking moron!


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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:50:59 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

  My question is why do atheist insist on proof from people of faith. 

 
....i think you've fallen into the same trap you point out. Not all aethists consider those of faith wrong. Or even misguided. Aethism is, as i mentioned in my first foray into this thread, too often narrowly defined. It really represents a very (forgive me) broad church of opinion.  There are aethists who seek to convert non-aethists, just as there are christians who seek to convert non-christians. However both are merely a part of a broader picture.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:52:17 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
.......i don't agree. Ridicule is not an inevitable consequence of being proved wrong. i'm fairly sure Einstein didn't take the piss out of Newton.


He did I was there...

quote:

Original: Einstein 
That Newton thinks time is a constant, fucking moron!



........i was there too and i wasn't drunk.....you missed the next thing he said which was "well, that's what Tesla said anyway"

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:53:57 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
 Why is it up to people of faith to prove one way, when people of non faith believe they have no need to prove the other?  Why do you not believe that it works both ways?
  

For the same reasons that the Burden of Evidence in a trial is placed upon the Prosecution.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard
Nonsense. Someone must be right and someone must be wrong therefore ridicule must follow. You are either ridiculing someone else or ridiculing your own beliefs by accepting the beliefs of others when you believe them to be untrue.


Why must ridicule inevitably be the outcome?  Do you consider the rest of humanity incapable of acceptance without conversion?  Or perhaps it is only yourself who lacks that capacity, and therefore to protect your psyche you project that failing onto the rest of us?

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 1:57:29 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Its not for me to define god since I don't believe there is anything to define, its for those that believe to define god and prove their hypothesis.
If you refuse to define God, then you are by definition unable to accept the commensurate evidence of his existence. So your demand for evidence is frivolous.


It isn't. When people talk about god they usually mean a super natural being. That's as far as a definition needs to go.

I'm waiting for the evidence.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 2:01:48 PM   
Raechard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
Why must ridicule inevitably be the outcome?  Do you consider the rest of humanity incapable of acceptance without conversion?  Or perhaps it is only yourself who lacks that capacity, and therefore to protect your psyche you project that failing onto the rest of us?


Acceptance is beside the point; I accept there are mad people walking about with funny ideas it doesn't mean I accept their ideas. Psychology is the most invalid science, it isn't even science so don't start that nonsense because only one person knows what is happening in my head and even he doesn't know himself most of the time.

Maybe you just envy my penis.


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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 2:04:51 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I don't get that mentaility though meatcleaver.  People don't have to prove their hypothesis to me whatever deity they worship because it doesn't involve me.  Why is it up to people of faith to prove one way, when people of non faith believe they have no need to prove the other?  Why do you not believe that it works both ways?
 
the.dark.

Burden of proof must lie with the positive postulation because that is where the concept originates from.

Trying to disprove the existence of leprechauns is silly because there is no logical reason to presume they exist (outside of cartoons and cereal boxes).

It doesn't "work both ways" because one is a statement, and the other is a critical question about the statement.



< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/2/2008 2:16:43 PM >

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 2:05:26 PM   
UncleNasty


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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 2:08:28 PM   
NihilusZero


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ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

For the same reasons that the Burden of Evidence in a trial is placed upon the Prosecution.

Fantastic analogy.


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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/2/2008 2:10:51 PM   
NihilusZero


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ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

it is better to believe in God, otherwise, this is all your fault.

It may certainly be "prettier" for some to believe in an ethereal alibi for their life experiences.

This, however, is an appeal to emotion and does nothing to support the logical proposition of a theistic deity.


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