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Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:20:51 PM   
SensibleSam


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		I believe most members of the general public and all of the media equate spousal abuse (wife beating) with BDSM. They seem very different to me but maybe I'm wrong. I would appreciate reading some authoritative research on this issue if there is any such. By that I mean a survey that shows something like: 14% of all husbands beat up their wives at one time or another to such an extent that the woman reports the beating to the police and/or is taken to a hospital emergency room. The study found that self proclaimed BDSM Dominants engaged in less (6%) wife beating.
 
Please notice that this is a fictious citation of a fictious survey. I only introduce this as an example of the form that an authoritative research study might take. I fear that there has never been such a study so all we are left with opinion and speculation. Well that's OK too.

Let me define terms - although you may correct me if you think I have miscast the issue.

A BDSM Dominant man is one who spanks, canes or whips a woman for pleasure. He is likely to also enjoy slapping her and any number of other practices that cause pain.

A wife beater is a man who on occassion beats up his wife or female companion usually while in a drunken rage.

There are many difference between a BDSM beating and a wife abuse beating. First of all the woman (submissive) in a BDSM beating consents to it and enjoys it while the victim of spousal abuse doesn't. In BDSM the woman often ends up with welts on her bottom whereas in abuse she has often been punched in the face.

So the question becomes: is a man who habitually brings pain to a woman more likely or less likely to engage in spousal abuse?  It could be that a BDSM Dom has become desensitized to striking a woman and is therefore more likely to escalate from and erotic beating to "beating up" the woman. Or it could be that BDSM men because they have experience with beating women are less likely to blow up and put her in the hospital. Or finally it could be that there is no connection whatsoever.
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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:25:30 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		IMO, spousal abuse and BDSM are not comparative at all, in any means, by any measure.

BDSM as it is a part of my life, and many others, is consensual.


edited because I forgot some punctuation.



< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 10/6/2008 12:54:33 PM >

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:26:45 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I find your generalisations in not only in error but showing a lack of knowledge when it comes to spousel abuse.
As for the question, you need a survey.  Anything else is pure conjecture and not worth the text written.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:30:34 PM   
SensibleSam


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Yes. That's what I said. I think they are different. My point was that the public doesn't.

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:42:06 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		So many things are wrong with your assumptions.

For a start not all Dominants use spanking, beating, whipping or pain in their relationships. Not all BDSM relationships are based on the physical.

(in reply to SensibleSam)
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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:46:19 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SensibleSam

Yes. That's what I said. I think they are different. My point was that the public doesn't.


That would be your opinion.


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Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:47:06 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I think the difference mainly lies in the fact that in the case of spousal abuse, the abusee doesn't want the abuse.   It could be said that they are enduring it instead of leaving the situation, thereby consenting to it.  But if it's unwanted and the person is putting up with it for reasons like fear etc, then that's what makes it different than a submissive who seeks out and wants a relationship that includes physical whippings and things of that nature.   It seems pretty basic to me.  Maybe I'm missing something?

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:53:28 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		I think it's fair to ask the questions, and I'm curious as to the answers.

My first inclination is that fewer of those engaged in a BDSM dynamic would be inclined to be abusive, because there is a thoughtful intention to the application of the physical aspects of the relationship. (And I'm assuming you're only including those that do engage in a physical way.) Then again, that doesn't connote that they can't or don't fly off the handle...

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 12:56:59 PM   
softhearted


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline 		I suspect that there is less abuse in real D/s relationships, but that the BDSM world may well attract many abusers masquerading as Dominants, since on the surface it appears to give them permission to do things that the vanilla world would not.

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:14:53 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		just like others here have said  the two are polar opposites . Abuse is just that . 

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:25:35 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Dear SensibleSam,

Your post has so many things about it that scream at me for clarification that I am having a hard time actually responding.  I want to correct so much of what you posted, but simply resigned myself to leaving it unaccosted.  I chose, instead, to address your request for statistics.

You can find quite an extensive amount of statistical reporting on abuse by googling Domestic Violence. Unfortunately, this won't give you anything close to a reasonable representation of the perceptions of individuals as it relates to BDSM.  Much of the BDSM community, and those who participate individually or privately will never make it into a poll or statistic.  Statistics that you might find, will only be representative of a small number of individuals polled, and statistically speaking cannot really be accurately representative of BDSM users, let alone realistically portray a correlation between BDSM users and the statistical probability as it relates to abuse.  This is not even factoring in the further complications of tracking what remains a wide spectrum of participation with varying dynamics.  You might as well ask what percentage of people dip their toes into the Atlantic versus the probability of those who chose to dip their whole foot.

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:35:39 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		in this slave's limited experience with spousal abuse (one former vanilla partner), the abuser did not get any sexual arousal or satisfaction from his sporadic and unpredictable violence...the choking and the punching were never included in sexual activities and were never triggered by this slave "antagonizing it out of him"...he would just simply explode, always behind closed doors where he thought no one would see.  when he flew into a rage, he struck with the full force of his strength...without a care as to what got damaged.
 
he apologized for his behavior afterwards, yet did nothing to change it.
 
in this slave's equally limited experience with BDSM (one current partner in an M/s relationship) the dominant is aroused and satisfied sexually with specific applications of "violence", in full control of Himself at the time and makes a conscious decision to engage a willing particpant for the mutual satisfaction of both parties.  the dominant makes sure not to do permanent damage by controlling the force of his blows and by targeting only "safe" areas.
 
he makes no apologies for his behavior, as none are necessary.
 
so to sum up this slave's personal experience:
 
spousal abuse comes from a place of anger/uncontrollable rage/lack of respect for a partner.
 
BDSM comes from a place of seeking sensational and/or sexual gratification with a compatible, willing partner.

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:43:38 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		What she said  -   and of course, the idea of consent should be raised. I think i can probably authoritarially state that no victim of domestic abuse ever consented to it.

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:44:34 PM   
Cyis75


Posts: 164
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Well my own involvement with spousal abuse was as the one that was doing the bleeding as I knew to defend myself I would have been serving time. As it was this was in Santa Clara County California which supposedly has a zero-tolerance policy on domestic violence. The cops were called, photographs taken, she was arrested and served a day and a half before her parents bailed her out. The DA reduced the D.V and Assault & Battery charges to "disturbing the peace" slapped a $400+ fine and 20 hours of counselling on her, while I spent 9 months with a chiropractor correcting the whiplash in my neck and paying her $1800/month in alimony, because she said it was part of a consentual BDSM relationship. Nevermind she was the supposed "submissive" and I was the dominant nor the fact her collar had been removed nearly 3 months prior ending all BDSM aspects of the relationship.

I give Santa Clara County some credit as the local community does a lot of outreach to educate police and district attorneys, but in this instance I know from my cheap seat it was inadequate and a failure.

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:44:49 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		Pretzel logic all twisted n stuff.  Using the OP logic there would be no cases of sexual abuse in the bdsm community, because it is ALL consenual.

Sheesh dude all your data is flawed how can anyone make sense of it.

BadOne

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:45:18 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
I think i can probably authoritarially state that no victim of domestic abuse ever consented to it.


Oh yes they do. Quite often actually.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:45:54 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I'm sorry, this is a trigger topic for me and I'm trying to be as objective as I can without ranting or going off on a tangent.  It is not my intention to derail this op but there was one thing I felt deserved a bit of clarification.

Abuse takes many forms, not all of it physical.  Some abuse takes the form of deliberate and conscious undermining of another's sense of 'self.  It troubles me, when abuse is generalized under a flag of physical violence, and described as being 'out of control' when I have seen so many instances of abuse that was calculated. 

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:51:53 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
I think i can probably authoritarially state that no victim of domestic abuse ever consented to it.


Oh yes they do. Quite often actually.


umm   ...  is this based on personal experience, or did you read something?

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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 1:55:09 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
I think i can probably authoritarially state that no victim of domestic abuse ever consented to it.


Oh yes they do. Quite often actually.


umm   ...  is this based on personal experience, or did you read something?


It's based on putting in 7 years as a professional Domestic Violence counselor, an additional 7 years as a Substance Abuse counselor with a 100% female clientele (can you guess what one of that population's top issues is?) and also on 46 years of living.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 10/6/2008 1:57:51 PM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to kiwisub12)
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RE: Spousal abuse versus BDSM - 10/6/2008 2:00:34 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Ah , so you are talking about subconsciously - not literally.  And for that , i will agree with you.   Seen my share of that dynamic in the ER.

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