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RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:07:47 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

There's a particular DeMotivator poster from despair.com:

"INTIMIDATION - No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but you'd be a fool to withhold that from your superiors."



There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 

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RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:13:26 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

There's a particular DeMotivator poster from despair.com:

"INTIMIDATION - No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but you'd be a fool to withhold that from your superiors."



There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 

Agreed!
I will not feel inferior because someone else possesses knowledge or talent that I don’t.
I prefer to appreciate their abilities while feeling good about my own. 

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RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:20:14 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 


Really? Nothing at all? Not even Star Wars Conventions?

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:22:56 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527


quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 


Really? Nothing at all? Not even Star Wars Conventions?


Okay...okay....self-depreciating people who go to Star Wars conventions is way more unattractive.

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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:29:24 PM   
OneMoreWaste


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 


Eh, to each his own.
I find it's redundancy that really grinds my gears


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RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:30:48 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 


Sometimes it's a learned survival mechanism. People don't deserve to have those patterns reinforced just because they feel the need to keep playing them out. Have you ever considered that perhaps some of the reasons why those patterns keep getting played out, is that people's negative reactions to them reinforces them?

It's not whining for people with low self-esteem to mention that they could do better with some validation. It's not whining for people who are unsure of themselves, but have good ideas, to want to hear something positive about themselves. But when it gets called whining, is it any wonder where that low self-esteem comes from?

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RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:54:20 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 


Sometimes it's a learned survival mechanism. People don't deserve to have those patterns reinforced just because they feel the need to keep playing them out. Have you ever considered that perhaps some of the reasons why those patterns keep getting played out, is that people's negative reactions to them reinforces them?

It's not whining for people with low self-esteem to mention that they could do better with some validation. It's not whining for people who are unsure of themselves, but have good ideas, to want to hear something positive about themselves. But when it gets called whining, is it any wonder where that low self-esteem comes from?



Okay....this is going to be my last reply to this, because you have somehow managed to warp this discussion into being about you and your issues.

As someone who used to have low self esteem and was unsure of himself as a teenager, I can personally attest to the fact that such things are like a can of Red Bull.  They get you up and going for awhile, but then you crash and your right back to where you were again.

Validation vampiring is what I like to call it where you feed off other people's admiration of you to make up for the lack of your.

The people who had the most influence on developing my own self esteem and self assurance were the one's who didn't provide me any direct validation, but rather made me look inside myself for my own validation and made me confront the thought processes that were the issues. I made an effort to change those thought processes, to find value in myself and find my own sense of worth based off my own attributes, and to continue to believe that value in the face of people who tried to take it away.

I still have a few insecurities that flare up every once and awhile and I still have those days where the old thought processes return and I have to fight them. But the difference is right now...I am happy. I'm happy whether I am with people or not, accepted into a social group or not, whether I have friends or not, whether I am with a lover or not, and whether I am being complimented or told how much I suck. I'm happy with me on an internal level that is not dependent on anything external.

So...no....I very much disagree with you. Being supportive of someone who is trying to face their own internal demons is a good thing. Feeding people validation to make up for their own lack of it doesn't solve anything, because it's external. It's really no different than basing your own happiness off external sources like heroine and alcohol.







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Advice for New Dominants
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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 4:55:43 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

There is nothing more totally unattractive to me then self-depreciation of one's own worth. 


Eh, to each his own.
I find it's redundancy that really grinds my gears



Yeah, it is pretty annoying.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 5:49:54 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Okay....this is going to be my last reply to this, because you have somehow managed to warp this discussion into being about you and your issues.


Nice dig. I wasn't just talking about me, but if it helps to turn it in that direction, you are welcome to.


< Message edited by Ialdabaoth -- 10/11/2008 6:07:46 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/11/2008 9:14:01 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		(((((Softness)))))) I am so glad to see that you are finding yourself. (there are other things I am relieved about I shall not go into here.)

We're going to have to something about that annoying maso streak though...whatever were you thinking posting all this here?!!

Love ya hun!!

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A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 2:38:06 AM   
Amadan


Posts: 44
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline 		I've been well and truly knocked off my Ivory Tower.

The Bard said it best...
"I am myself indifferent honest;   
but yet I could accuse me of such things that it   
were better my mother had not borne me: I am very   
proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offences at   
my beck than I have thoughts to put them in,   
imagination to give them shape, or time to act them
in. What should such fellows as I do crawling 
between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves,   
all; believe none of us."
Hamlet 3.1


< Message edited by Amadan -- 10/12/2008 2:39:26 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 4:26:26 AM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		People are people, what can you do?

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 5:57:31 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		you know, its all about having parameters.  been thinking about this and it suddenly dawned on me.

at 22/23 i came out of a D/s relationship that had challenged everything that i thought i knew about myself. i  suddenly had no parameters of my own and i went into an hedonistic free fall, angry with everyone and myself, self destructive in many ways (not that im saying softness is self destructive) but some of what she is saying here rang some little bells in my head.

i pushed myself into all sorts of tight corners trying to find my own parameters, trying to find where i fitted and coming off arrogant and angry with the world.

i didnt seem to fit anywhere atall - i was pretty enough to be wanted by men but too crazy to be taken seriously - i walked with attitude but it was just a facade.

its about finding your own parameters first and foremost, when you have none or seemingly none, its a pretty crazy place to be.  i didnt want to be controlled either and my freefall took me to some stupid stupid places. through challenging myself and trying everything that came my way i finally learnt where my parameters were.  it wasnt until then that i began to feel ok with myself again.

i think its great that she came on here and is expressing her feelings and thoughts, railing against the nonsense and bouncing off our walls, her walls and CMs walls.  she needs to i think and we should cut her some slack.  i wish id had this place back then and im pretty sure id have pissed a few people off in the process of learning how i felt about myself and the world i perceived to be around me at that time.

i might be/probably am completely wrong with regard to softness' situation, just i recognised something in there.

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RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 6:34:05 AM   
NuevaVida


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Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		That was some great insight, lally (great new pic, btw!). I wouldn't say I'm bouncing off walls, but I will say when you've had NO boundaries to someone for a number of years and are then suddenly without that person, it's quite an effort to figure out where your boundaries will/should/could/ought to be in future relationships. Not everyone has it all figured out since birth, and some of us do struggle with our own emotions and self preservation tools along the way. I agree about cutting people some slack.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 7:23:46 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		lally...

great picture, yes indeedy.

Well, i suppose that there is something to be said for the rage against the machine phase...i am in the final stages of just that i suppose. i look back at some of the sudden and severe turns my life has made over the last little bit...and especially this last year and i swear im surprised i was able to pull out of it unscathed.(relatively speaking...)
A very wise friend of mine was convinced that by now i would either be collared (to just anyone) or out of the scene entirely...as in burnt out...and i am here, standing, learning...and more importantly, not anywhere near falling off the radar. i wont settle for less than i need...its not a matter of want. And i wont be running off crazily half -cocked (gawd forbid) doing foolish things that do no one any good in the end. So my course is right down the middle and where it should be. (my middle is a touch left of center so there may be some debate on the level of my normality.)

Sometimes my enthusiasm is seen as aggressive or simply not submissive. Meh, im not for the faint of heart.

perse~


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And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

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RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 11:47:36 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I'm a little, no not a little majorly appalled by the direction this thread has gone in places!
Softness mentioned earlier how many on the cm boards 'posture' and this has become (in places) a perfect example of exactly that.
A handful of people have had the balls to come down from their 'ivory tower' and share some of their innermost thoughts on this subject.
A few have defended Softness's position.
The rest have postured, judged and behaved like children.
 
I really am disgusted at the personal attacks on softness in here and yes admittedly i have a personal interest. She is my best friend and nothing could be further than the truth than what some of you have said about her. We talk about honesty and integrity all the time and when someone shows both she is slammed for it. A few people here wouldn't know honesty and integrity if it bit them on the ass.

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 12:25:51 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

The rest have postured, judged and behaved like children.



Thus proving the Ivory Tower point, yes? I'd say the thread was successful, as a result.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 12:45:25 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Most definately. Ain't it great when those who deny such things existance only prove their existance.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 2:04:27 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Most definately. Ain't it great when those who deny such things existance only prove their existance.


That's kind of circular to me, Miss.

It kind of reminds me of the guy who goes "Look, I'm not an alcoholic" and everyone else goes "No, you are. Your just in denial."

Sourcing his argument to stemming from denial doesn't allow for the possibility that maybe he really isn't an alcoholic.

Sourcing the behavior of the people in this thread to "being in an Ivory Tower" doesn't allow the possibility that maybe some people here don't have a whole list of personal flaws and issues that are driving us to be part of BDSM.

Maybe it's possible that some of us really are here for healthy and good reasons.



_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods - 10/12/2008 2:10:25 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Maybe it's possible that some of us really are here for healthy and good reasons.




Not only is it possible, it's probable. Where I saw the irony was, unless I was misreading/misunderstanding, witnessing the criticism launched from what seemed a less than compassionate standpoint. Just recently, softness was applauded for how she was dealing with a very painful breakup. Now, just a couple weeks later, she is put down for a sense of confidence that seems over the top to some.

I just wonder if people have short memories, or if they understand the process of such a breakup can catapult us all over the emotional board, within ourselves?

Or do we only want to see the good stuff?

Just some weird contemplations from a current catapulter...

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Profile   Post #: 100
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