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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/23/2008 3:53:57 AM

HunterS

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M:
The image of you holding me upside down and shaking out my pocket change has now been indelibly imprinted on my physche.
H.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/23/2008 4:06:15 AM

MsStarlett

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Pardon me while I flog you. If there is nothing left in the pockets, I'll just have to exact my pound of flesh.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/23/2008 8:22:50 AM

HunterS

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I think you just want to see me cry.
H.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/24/2008 3:42:51 PM

LexiTempest

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I'm old-fashioned. I think the guy should pay when first "dating," because he *should* be trying to impress Me. Plus, there's the added bonus: If he's a player, or a "serial dater," his ass will be broke real quick.

I had a date who wanted to go dutch on the first date, after a meal that was maybe $30 total. He didn't get a second date. lol. But, once in a relationship, I think it is fair to take turns or what have you.

In highschool, I had a boyfriend who always insisted on paying for Me. But, he was 17 and wasn't exactly rich. I remember wanting to go to the movies with him one night, and he refused because he couldn't afford it. When I offered to pay, he still refused because he thought the guy should always pay. I thought that was ridiculous- I cared more about spending time with him than who paid for the date!

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/25/2008 3:57:22 AM

LadyKathryn

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hello everyone,

I think it depends on your relationship to the person you go out with, and how that person feels about someone paying for them. If they are fine with it, then go for it, if not, then don't.

- Kathryn

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/25/2008 6:01:24 AM

FullfigRIMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKathryn
I think it depends on your relationship to the person you go out with, and how that person feels about someone paying for them. If they are fine with it, then go for it, if not, then don't.
- Kathryn

Of course it does; I think most dominas here are joking about "only he should pay." Of course he should pay if he can afford it, but we all know good and well that everything depends on how into each other we are, and who can afford what. I doubt anyone would turn down a fantastically good boy just because he couldn't afford to buy us something shiny.
Still, it can be fun shaking everything out of him.

M

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/25/2008 8:22:35 AM

Venatrix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMaam.
Still, it can be fun shaking everything out of him. M

Or whipping it out of him, or smacking it out of him, or twisting it out of him. Erm, I have to go lie down now.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/29/2008 4:51:27 PM

WidowSpiders

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Cheers Venatrix! That was hilarious!

Who pays is a difficult question. In the end it comes down to a concept of entitlement and equality. Whoever pays is then in a more powerful position and will be expecting or hoping that their investment will yield dividends.

In our last few relationships, we two paid all the tabs. When we had house slaves, we paid rent, utilities, food bills, and bought them gifts.

Sadly, this was taken for granted very quickly. Our slaves 'lost' their jobs and 'amazingly' couldn't find new ones. While paying for things is something we enjoy doing, it can easily be taken for granted and has led to bizarre entitlement issues.

So for now, though we prefer to pay, our new policy is that the sub pays his/her own way.

So in summation, keep in mind that money = power, even if you are avoiding that inference. It is an investment. No one is altruistic.

Ask the person you are seeing. The most beautiful thing about this lifestyle is that we cannot afford to do that stupid mating dance where participants read each other's minds. It's too dangerous. We have to be straight forward about everything, money included.

So ask. If you are expected to pay, be honest with yourself about what you expect to get in return.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/29/2008 6:31:43 PM

FullfigRIMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WidowSpiders
Whoever pays is then in a more powerful position and will be expecting or hoping that their investment will yield dividends

I disagree. While some traditions are best left if history, chivalry isn't one of them for me. I like men who will do anything for their women. Men, if they can afford it, should pay, and no paying for dinner does not mean he's bought me, because I would be considerably more expensive than any dinner. I don't want to be so bold as to say "I can't be bought" because of the never say never caviat.

quote:

In our last few relationships, we two paid all the tabs. When we had house slaves, we paid rent, utilities, food bills, and bought them gifts

Same situation here when I've dated or been married, and made at least twice as much as boyfriend/hubby, I paid... I don't consider that a problem as I feel relationships are about give and take of whatever we are/possess.

quote:

Sadly, this was taken for granted very quickly. Our slaves 'lost' their jobs and 'amazingly' couldn't find new ones. While paying for things is something we enjoy doing, it can easily be taken for granted and has led to bizarre entitlement issues

I have encountered an expectation of being loose, easy, and gotten no gentleman-like treatment in return. I find that if I expect them to do the work of getting to/with me, we get along much better, and they behave much better towards moi.

quote:

So in summation, keep in mind that money = power, even if you are avoiding that inference. It is an investment. No one is altruistic.

Precisely why he should relinquish some of it to be in my company. Why should I pay and have less of my power if he can afford to pay? If he cannot afford to pay, but has a great demeanor, is kind, considerate, and has imagination, money should not be a problem for either of us.

quote:

If you are expected to pay, be honest with yourself about what you expect to get in return.

I'll pay if I want something; but I won't pay to pose for him. I expect a lot of things from any man with me, but absolutely don't expect to pay in order for him to give/do anything for me. M

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/30/2008 1:17:27 PM

DavanKael

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I am pleased at chivalrous acts, like a man offering to pay for things, holding the door, etc.
Do I expect them? No.
As I contemplate both the D- and s-sides of the kneel, I think pragmatism and being real people dictates.
Davan

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 9:50:20 AM

WidowSpiders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: WidowSpiders
Whoever pays is then in a more powerful position and will be expecting or hoping that their investment will yield dividends

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMaam
I disagree. While some traditions are best left if history, chivalry isn't one of them for me. I like men who will do anything for their women. Men, if they can afford it, should pay, and no paying for dinner does not mean he's bought me, because I would be considerably more expensive than any dinner. I don't want to be so bold as to say "I can't be bought" because of the never say never caviat.

Unfortunately, chivalry originated because women could not have paid for much of anything in the past. We could hold no significant jobs or own property. We were property. A cad was a man who would buy things for a woman but expect payment in the form of physical favors. A gentleman was a man who would buy things for a woman in exchange for her company, sexual or not.

Ironically, we agree with you. Hell, if a man thought he could buy his way into our household with a $50 dinner, he is sorely mistaken!

It is the party who has more to lose and the least to gain who should not be expected to pay. There are 400:1 subs for Dommes on this site. The odds of our finding something better or at least something comparable to the sub who was too cheap to buy dinner is pretty high. A sub cannot easily find a lifestyle Domme who wouldn't charge him at least $250 an hour. A dinner, damn it, would be quite cheap by comparison!

However, people pay for things as an exchange. This cannot be denied. Whether it is a down payment in hope of a long term relationship, a payment in gratitude for a Domme's time, or even a payment in hopes of enjoying your company again, it is still an investment.

Please forgive the analysis of an economist.

When we paid our slave's bills, we did so because we anticipated that the return we had been promised would far outweigh the costs. We were promised basic housekeeping, gardening, and endless appreciation. We were very responsible and attentive Dommes, which in retrospect should have been more than payment enough for proper submission. When they did not behave submissively, the emotional investment alone was no longer worth it.

If nothing more than to show appreciation for a Domme's time, given how much effort, social stigmatization, and experience we have all put into our roles, a sub should be expected to return just as much. Ideally this payment would be through perfect servitude and affection. If this is not possible, given time or emotional constraints, money and gifts would possibly be a good substitute.

Damn it all, Ladies, all of our time is precious. We have all had thousands of solicitations. We have all waded through hundreds of flakes, losers, wankers, and posers. To have stayed in this lifestyle this long is a testament to our strength and orientation. We deserve to be appreciated and respected. As any good sub/slave has learned, give to us, and your investment will be returned ten fold.

Take us for granted and you will find your selfish kinky ass kicked to the curb with a piggy-tail butt plug in it and an apple shoved in your mouth... or would that be too generous? lol

< Message edited by WidowSpiders -- 10/31/2008 10:00:32 AM >

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 10:11:18 AM

FullfigRIMaam

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quote:

Take us for granted and you will find your selfish kinky ass kicked to the curb with a piggy-tail butt plug in it and an apple shoved in your mouth... or would that be too generous? lol

That is definitely generous, and I hope all the boys don't flud your inbox asking for this exact treatment, lol. M

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 11:19:50 AM

HunterS

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quote:

Or whipping it out of him, or smacking it out of him, or twisting it out of him

quote:

Still, it can be fun shaking everything out of him.

quote:

Pardon me while I flog you. If there is nothing left in the pockets, I'll just have to exact my pound of flesh.

Excuse me ladies I need to go take a shower...a cold shower.

H.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 11:21:38 AM

Venatrix

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Here's the way I look at it for me, personally. It depends largely on what's being offered, when it's being offered, and who's doing the offering. Some men will offer to buy me things and I very much get the sense that strings are attached. I decline those offers. Others are simply taking me out for a meal. I've had men expect me to split the cost, including the tip, right down the middle. Those are men I won't bother seeing again unless there's something to my advantage in it. I kept seeing one man like that when I was trying out my newly acquired domme-skills, because he was a hell of a painslut, and I wanted to see how far I wanted to go. Given that he never even thanked me for spending my evenings topping him, I only played with him a couple of times. Ingratitude is not something I need in my life.

The men who take me out for a meal and do not expect me to chip in, I rarely feel obligated to, anyway. They are getting the pleasure of my company, so there is no reason why they shouldn't make it worth my while. I could just as happily stay home with a glass of wine, a good book, and my lovely fat Russian Blue on my lap.

I've also spent a lot of money on toys and outfits, and spend time preparing and cleaning up after a scene, sanitising my toys afterwards, and so on. There's no reason why someone can't take me out or buy me a little something to show his appreciation.

In terms of a committed (possibly marital) relationship, I have no problem letting a sub support me, and would feel no imbalance of power. My approach is that we're a team. Maybe an unequal team in some areas, but still a team. If he owned his own business, I'd be happy to help if that would enhance our relationship. My ex-husband once said to me, "You aren't cheap to keep, but you do give good value for money." I don't think that's a bad financial basis for a relationship. If my ex had been kinky, we might have had better luck.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 11:30:13 AM

MsDonnaMia

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Alternatives? LOL. No. The male pays...always, even if it means he goes into debt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragon2760

I did not just want to just dredge up the following post by posting to it as the last entry was dated in 2005, but I would like to know the opinions of the current membership in this forum as to the question of "who should pay?.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_117751/mpage_1/tm.htm

I was raised to believe that if a gentlemen took a lady out that it was his responsibility to pickup the tab. Yet in today's economy that is not always very easy to do especially when other obligations (i.e. being a divorced father who has primary custody of his children) puts a big strain on income.

For those who are in more casual relationships with your sub/s, you see each other every now and then, what are your feelings on this issue and what other alternatives have you and your sub/s come up with?

Thanks You,
dragon2760

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 12:11:23 PM

WidowSpiders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMaam

quote:

Take us for granted and you will find your selfish kinky ass kicked to the curb with a piggy-tail butt plug in it and an apple shoved in your mouth... or would that be too generous? lol
That is definitely generous, and I hope all the boys don't flud your inbox asking for this exact treatment, lol. M

Well, damn, it was too generous. We had several guys in the last few days requesting we make them shit their pants, make them sniff/eat it, and shove said butt plug up their asses.

And thus comes the irony of the BDSM ages. How do you punish a masochist who is into humiliation? Any form of attention, no matter how degrading, is a reward to them.

The answer? Ignore them. Kick them out of your life and do not respond when they whine, beg, threaten, or even throw themselves as your door in the middle of a hailstorm. They want the attention. A stalker works in the same fashion. They want the attention, any kind of attention, and they will go to any extreme to get it.

So... damn. So much for the piggy butt plug. How much do those things cost, anyway? Too much.

And with a solid yet disinterest punt they are out of the door and getting not a single glance in the rearview mirror.

lol

Thank you, FullfiRIMaam.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 12:46:03 PM

PeonForHer

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You aren't cheap to keep, but you do give good value for money

I'm not sure if it would quite help the overall tone of your profile, V - but that line just has to be in it somewhere!

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 3:46:46 PM

HunterS

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quote:

I kept seeing one man like that when I was trying out my newly acquired domme-skills, because he was a hell of a painslut, and I wanted to see how far I wanted to go. Given that he never even thanked me for spending my evenings topping him, I only played with him a couple of times. Ingratitude is not something I need in my life.

This seems a little inconsistant. You admit that the relationship was mutually benificial but complain that he did not thank you for your time spent "topping" him...did you thank him for his time spent "bottoming" for you? Gratitude is a two way street.

H.

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 4:02:24 PM

Venatrix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

I kept seeing one man like that when I was trying out my newly acquired domme-skills, because he was a hell of a painslut, and I wanted to see how far I wanted to go. Given that he never even thanked me for spending my evenings topping him, I only played with him a couple of times. Ingratitude is not something I need in my life.

This seems a little inconsistant. You admit that the relationship was mutually benificial but complain that he did not thank you for your time spent "topping" him...did you thank him for his time spent "bottoming" for you? Gratitude is a two way street.

H.

Your point is well taken, but I'm also guessing that you have no idea how much work a domina puts into putting on a scene. The preparations and clean up alone take several hours. The particular sub in question drank my wine, and took a shower and left me with a dirty towel. Are subs so special that the common rules of good manners don't apply to them? If that's the case, as I said, I'd rather spend the evening alone.

That's a real question, by the way. I really am interested to hear how you justify a guest coming over, partaking of hospitality and not thanking the host/ess. If it isn't excusable in vanilla life, it shouldn't be excusable in kinky life.

< Message edited by Venatrix -- 10/31/2008 4:03:46 PM >

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RE: Who Should Pay?? - 10/31/2008 4:23:29 PM

PeonForHer

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While some traditions are best left if history, chivalry isn't one of them for me.

Something of an aside, really, FFRIM. I asked a domme recently where she thought the sub impulse came from in a man. I thought she'd say "who knows?" or similar (which would be my own answer to that question). Yet for her the answer was clear and straightforward: "it's chivalry: the desire to cherish a woman and adore her - only more of it". As though a submissive male was actually a kind of "Sir Galahad", in short.

Not convinced she was right, as I say, but it was certainly pretty flattering to hear. And a mollifying thought too if you, as a man, find yourself emptying your pocket for what unexpectedly turns out to be a punishingly expensive meal for two.

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