derfrewop
Posts: 74
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Vancouver
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gypsygrl
quote:
I think you missed the essence here.
Perhaps. I was taking issue with the universalizing statement "Every human must be able to see themselves as good people and will tell themselves any lie that lets them see themselves as basically good." As written, its not supportable by any standard of evidence I'm familiar with.
Undoubtably, some humans are like this, but I doubt every one is. I'm pretty sure I'm not like this because I gave up a belief in my own inherant goodness years ago. I've done some pretty awful things. But, I'm not hell bent on self-improvement, either. I'm hoping for remaining rather innocuous through the rest of my life, neither good nor bad, just harmless. :) So, at the very least, I can offer up my own experience as counterevidence to your universalist claim. Of course, I could be making this up as I go along in the interests of making my argument because I'm kind of intrigued by it.
Its relevevant because the assertion I'm taking issue with helps you to rationalize your telling the 'brutal truth,' and make it seem like a good thing. What I'm implying here is that you're clinging to a misconception, perhaps lying to yourself about human nature, in order to maintain a belief in yourself as a good person dispite your willingness to tell 'brutal truths.' The argument you're making is a varient of 'the ends justify the means' which doesn't sit well with me, ethically speaking.
Gypsygrl that has to rank among the most thoughtful, coherent and concise responses I have ever had.
Even so, I still think you and I are on exactly the same page. But you are confusing the internal dialog with with external manifestations and it shows most directly in your own personal counter example. As you summarized it, you strive to be "harmless", neither good or bad. Which is exactly the same thing as I said, everybody must be able to see themselves as good and will go to great extremes to achieve this internally. It may be that "good" is the problem word here. Perhaps if instead of the loaded word "good" I used the word "acceptable" it would meet with your approval.
As for standards of proof, since we are dealing with first person phenomenon, there is no possibility of proof. However, my statement that humans must resolve their inner story to achieve a self image that is "acceptable" is a core principle of most modern human sciences. For example it is the core principle of psychology (cognitive dissonance, homostasis theories,Jungian,and Freudian analysis, scripting theories), advertising etc. Even religion can be characterized as a strategy to allow the entity that knows our deepest selves to be able to judge us as "acceptable".
What I most appreciated was your call out of the "ends justify the means" that is usually involved in Brutal Honesty. This is 100% dead on in the vast majority of cases I have seen which usually do not leave open the possibility of change. If there is no intent to make change possible, it is simply brutality and not honest at all. I did cover that indirectly by noting that the proper use of Brutal Honesty that attacks the inner self image leaves the recipient with the choice of ending the relationship or making the change. From my point of view, the proper use of brutal honesty requires the brute to have decided that either outcome, change or ending the relationship, is acceptable. When any of the possible outcomes is acceptable, then all that is left is the justification of the means. Again, the choices here are, ignore it, gloss it over honesty, brutal honesty or ending the relationship. The first two are dishonest, ending the relationship is reasonable only if the brute does not value the relationship. Thus brutal honesty is justified when all other means are less justified. Which is not often but still occurs.
I am perfectly capable of rationalizing my own failures to make myself look good. Yet, I don't think I did so in the post. If I had, the outcome of the example would would have been added with emphasis to show how wonderful I am and with my own implied role named something other than Brute. Instead, I simply showed the differences between honesty and brutal honesty and the implications of those differences.
_____________________________
I only flog good girls. I don't reward bad behavior.
|
RE: Honesty, brutal honesty and just too much !! - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread