RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (Full Version)

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giveeverything -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:05:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If they're good people, then why rob them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverythingwhen did he ever call anybody the evil rich?  I think this is YOUR issue not Obama's or the democrats.

You continue to use words that are propaganistic.  That neither lends to nor helps understand the discussion.




Sanity -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:09:38 PM)

You really need to learn to check your facts before you post... unless you really like the taste of your feet, of course!  [:@]

The Wall Street Jouirnal website currently has an article that sets the record straight.

quote:

One of Barack Obama's most potent campaign claims is that he'll cut taxes for no less than 95% of "working families." He's even promising to cut taxes enough that the government's tax share of GDP will be no more than 18.2% -- which is lower than it is today.
It's a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he's also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of "tax cut."

For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase "tax credit." Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals:
(more)




NumberSix -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:10:24 PM)

Now I hear she's got a house up in Fresno,
in a style,
she's tryin' hard to maintain...

Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce.

Sanity, all well and fine, and if there is no roof, and no quilt, and the childrens bowls go empty, who is going to work for these fucking people?  If money don't matter when you write the paycheck, it don't matter to all of us.  Try buying a filet mignon when the butcher won't cut, try haute cusine, when no cooks are cooking, fit a suit when the tailor works his garden, get electricity when no one will shovel coal....

We are in this together.

6





Sanity -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:12:22 PM)


What do you call it when someone takes money with force or under the threat of force in order to benefit personally, which in Obama's case involves giving that money to those who he's trying to get to vote for him.

What would you call it...

Paint it any color you like, it's still robbery.


quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If they're good people, then why rob them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverythingwhen did he ever call anybody the evil rich?  I think this is YOUR issue not Obama's or the democrats.

You continue to use words that are propaganistic.  That neither lends to nor helps understand the discussion.




giveeverything -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:15:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What do you call it when someone takes money with force or under the threat of force in order to benefit personally, which in Obama's case involves giving that money to those who he's trying to get to vote for him.

What would you call it...

Paint it any color you like, it's still robbery.


quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If they're good people, then why rob them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverythingwhen did he ever call anybody the evil rich?  I think this is YOUR issue not Obama's or the democrats.

You continue to use words that are propaganistic.  That neither lends to nor helps understand the discussion.

I give up.  I don't believe you're ready for a grown-up discussion.  I like talking different points (including ones that differ from my own views) but I need to a least believe the person I'm discussing them with can defend them in a reasonable manner - which would include not pandering to the talking points.  Talking points are meant to discourage nuanced and sophisticated dialogue, it seems to be doing its job in this discussion.




LovingNcruelMs -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:15:54 PM)

Sanity:

It might help you feel better to know that if Obama manages to pass his energy plan, and your worst fear does come true and we STOP giving $700 Billion dollars to foreigners who don't like us and are using our money to make war against us and buy up our assets, Americans will benefit in the following ways.

1. We will be forced to use more American coal, American Natural gas, American Wind power, American Solar power and American Hydro power. 

2. The oil companies will be forced to start new businesses to find, build and put up new natural gas lines and natural gas stations.

3. Up to 500,000 jobs will be created since Americans will be the ones building the infrastructure and when done will be the ones hired to run them. ie: to take care of the pipelines, windmills or solar farms, and natural gas stations. 

4. We will break Alqueda's network since it is well known that they bank their attacks with OIL MONEY.

How much money will he make when we instead use FREE Sun energy, FREE wind power, FREE geo thermal energy and use Natural Gas (which comes from American and Canadian Feilds) instead of gasoline in our municipal vehicles (buses, trains, taxis)and even some cabs and private cars?

Is it wrong to stop banking the enemy or would you rather keep hearing about the yellow and orange alerts?  Or even worst actually pay off the nuclear weapon they want to use against the US.

I find this a no brainer and truel cannot understand why others don't also.
MistressA. 




NumberSix -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:16:50 PM)

What do you call it when someone takes oil (or sovereignty) with force or under the threat of force in order to benefit personally, which in Bushe's case involves giving that money to those who he's trying to get to vote for him.

What would you call it...

Paint it any color you like, it's still robbery.






Lucylastic -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:19:31 PM)

the actual meeting of Obama and Joe, didnt start with him going up and knocking on Joes door .... yes I know its semantics and Joe is a "nobody" according to your post,but hereis the full conversation not by Breitbart or Drudge..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRPbCSSXyp0
Fox news radio jumped on it first making soundbites of  obama saying "spreading the wealth around"( I was listening to fox as the news broke) and essentially thought that it was a point to roast obama on. They were the ones that ran with it, making him out to be a poor hard done by business man, and how shocking it was . Then Mcain brings him up in the debate, as the poster boy for poor working republicans. Now that hes been discredited and the facts are in... everyone is blaming the "left"media for exposing this chap.
One thing I have to ask is that while I agree the media is left wing , there are plenty of right wing journalists and bloggers who have tried over and over to bring  down obama, from his race, his birth, his beliefs yet nothing has stuck to be so horrible, are they just imcompetant, secretly wanting him to win? or ?
Lucy
Edited for link




Sanity -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:28:16 PM)

I seriously, seriously doubt that an Obama / Reid / Pelosi power triangle will open up any new offshore drilling, explore for natural gas or any other fuel source lying in any area that even resembles a wild place, build significant coal plants or any nuclear plants at all.

Looking at the record it's clear that the extreme greens will have these three actors in their pockets and that extremist environmental protectionism will be the law of the land under them, regardless of their pre-campaign rhetoric and posturing.

Farmers will have to pay exorbitant fuel costs by the end of Obama's first term, trucking and shipping will be crippled, and affordable heat and air conditioning will be nothing but a fond memory for millions of Americans who desperately need these things.

Higher energy costs will (as we have seen) fuel inflation exponentially - when energy costs rise, the cost of everything else does too.

Look at their record, not their promises.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingNcruelMs

Sanity:

It might help you feel better to know that if Obama manages to pass his energy plan, and your worst fear does come true and we STOP giving $700 Billion dollars to foreigners who don't like us and are using our money to make war against us and buy up our assets, Americans will benefit in the following ways.

1. We will be forced to use more American coal, American Natural gas, American Wind power, American Solar power and American Hydro power. 

2. The oil companies will be forced to start new businesses to find, build and put up new natural gas lines and natural gas stations.

3. Up to 500,000 jobs will be created since Americans will be the ones building the infrastructure and when done will be the ones hired to run them. ie: to take care of the pipelines, windmills or solar farms, and natural gas stations. 

4. We will break Alqueda's network since it is well known that they bank their attacks with OIL MONEY.

How much money will he make when we instead use FREE Sun energy, FREE wind power, FREE geo thermal energy and use Natural Gas (which comes from American and Canadian Feilds) instead of gasoline in our municipal vehicles (buses, trains, taxis)and even some cabs and private cars?

Is it wrong to stop banking the enemy or would you rather keep hearing about the yellow and orange alerts?  Or even worst actually pay off the nuclear weapon they want to use against the US.

I find this a no brainer and truel cannot understand why others don't also.
MistressA. 




Sanity -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:30:18 PM)


Thank you, Lucy. A bit more clarity is always appreciated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the actual meeting of Obama and Joe, didnt start with him going up and knocking on Joes door .... yes I know its semantics and Joe is a "nobody" according to your post,but hereis the full conversation not by Breitbart or Drudge..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRPbCSSXyp0
Fox news radio jumped on it first making soundbites of  obama saying "spreading the wealth around"( I was listening to fox as the news broke) and essentially thought that it was a point to roast obama on. They were the ones that ran with it, making him out to be a poor hard done by business man, and how shocking it was . Then Mcain brings him up in the debate, as the poster boy for poor working republicans. Now that hes been discredited and the facts are in... everyone is blaming the "left"media for exposing this chap.
One thing I have to ask is that while I agree the media is left wing , there are plenty of right wing journalists and bloggers who have tried over and over to bring  down obama, from his race, his birth, his beliefs yet nothing has stuck to be so horrible, are they just imcompetant, secretly wanting him to win? or ?
Lucy
Edited for link




NumberSix -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:32:20 PM)

Looking at the record it's clear that the extreme greens will have these three actors in their pockets and that extremist environmental protectionism will be the law of the land under them, regardless of their pre-campaign rhetoric and posturing. farmers will have to pay exhorbitant fuel costs by the end of Obam,a's first term, trucking and shipping will be crippled, and affordable heat and air conditioning will be nothing but a fond memory for millions of Americans who desperately need it.


Clean water? 8000 dollars a barrel saudia arabia.

Clean air?  2000 dollars a tank, china.

Agricultural products?  800 bucks a bushel, world.

Me being in on that; alive to see it?

Priceless




Musicmystery -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:34:01 PM)

quote:

I seriously, seriously doubt that an Obama / Reid / Pelosi power triangle will open up any new offshore drilling, explore for natural gas or any other fuel source lying in any area that even resembles a wild place, build significant coal plants or any nuclear plants at all.

Looking at the record it's clear that the extreme greens will have these three actors in their pockets and that extremist environmental protectionism will be the law of the land under them, regardless of their pre-campaign rhetoric and posturing. farmers will have to pay exhorbitant fuel costs by the end of Obam,a's first term, trucking and shipping will be crippled, and affordable heat and air conditioning will be nothing but a fond memory for millions of Americans who desperately need it.


Thus spake the serious extremist

Who clearly lacks records.




LadyEllen -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:35:29 PM)

Rising gas prices? (thats gas-gas, not the stuff you put in your car)

We're always told over here that the price of gas is determined by the price of oil, to which its linked in the commodity markets.

The oil price has dropped dramatically - so the price of gas should drop too.

(unless, heaven forfend, our government was not being entirely truthful. Again)

E




slvemike4u -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:47:09 PM)

Methinks the coming Democratic landslide has pushed someone round the proverbial bend....




NumberSix -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:47:13 PM)

Like biorhythms El.

You would like to think that petrol (gas-gas) and oil have a very invariable relationship, but you can't burn oil in a car, you see.

The thinking man, is gonna say, hey it is gonna take a while to sort this imbriglio out.  So, we can slowly drop petrol prices (because joe six pack or newcastle coal miners have no idea the relationship of ratios to the two) and pick up a little windfall by lagging the downside, on these cloth-eared bints that rant and rave about porking our own, instead of sending the ketchup board overseas for taxation reasons.

Corporate?  What does that word mean?

LOL.

Laborite = Republican here
Tories  =  Democrat here

or am I mistaken?

Lord Asquith 




LadyEllen -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:50:10 PM)

Sorry Ron, I have no idea if youre mistaken, since I'm so completely confuzzled by your words

Have you ever considered running for Republican VP?

E




NumberSix -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:53:13 PM)

I don't have a bad heart.

I've never shot anyone in the face accidentally.

I am a veteran.

It appears to be above my paygrade.

6




Sanity -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:55:30 PM)

OPEC is holding an emergency session to fix that problem right now though, aren't they.

And I see that Britain is increasing their offshore production...

Smart people, the Brits   [;)]


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Rising gas prices? (thats gas-gas, not the stuff you put in your car)

We're always told over here that the price of gas is determined by the price of oil, to which its linked in the commodity markets.

The oil price has dropped dramatically - so the price of gas should drop too.

(unless, heaven forfend, our government was not being entirely truthful. Again)

E




Sanity -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:56:46 PM)


You said you were through. You can't get enough of me, I see!

Welcome back then.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Thus spake the serious extremist

Who clearly lacks records.




ModeratorEleven -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 4:59:07 PM)

Ok children, that's enough.

XI





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