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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

Don't have a problem when someone disagrees but when they do the same things that they point out is bad in others it kinda loses any merit in my mind.

No, we aren't doing the same things at all and since this is what I consider to be an important discussion that presents information people might use for their own theories of relationships, let me explain why.

I'm a thinker. A scientist. My brain doesn't deal solely with simple ideas, but rather I work by building entire systems of ideas that all work in sync with one another. If there is a hole in my logic or if my approach doesn't take into account something, I am going to deal with it.

Your presenting your own methodolgy of how you work as a dominant that you are asserting to be a "right" and valid way of doing things, but unfortanely when I look at it and think it through, there is a number of holes in it.

• You claim that the success of relationship should be based off finding a compatible partner that doesn't require you to change. I agree to a degree, but unfortanely if that relationship is going to have longevity, the fact that people grow and change has to be addressed. So obviously if during the relationship we will have to work towards closing the gap that occurs by that change and growth, why isn't change and growth to make a relationship work okay?
• If we take a look at this at solely on a principle of probability, finding a partner who doesn't require you to change or work past differences AT ALL has chances in a range that are completely unrealistic.
• You say that you are willing to take input and willing to change to some degree, but aren't willing to "mold yourself to another person's ideals" like we are doing. You don't seem to have any specific criterion as to what change is acceptable and what change quantifies as being the negative of "conforming to another person's ideals" so this statement doesn't seem to be based on logic but rather on ego. Your okay with changing just as long as that change doesn't insult your own dominance.

Your okay with changing just as long as that change doesn't insult your own dominance.

It's not about ego because as you pointed out..It's a very small one. It's about making sure I don't compromise myself and the dynamic in a rush to give her what she wants or even needs for that matter. I weigh everything out and I do what's best for all first. Then Me then her.

I'm not a scientist but I am a thinker. Although I did stay in a holiday in once.

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Unfortunately all too often, that attention wains after the relationship settles in and the new "infatuation" wears off, and voila... we're no longer speaking compatible languages.

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The research goes on to say that this phase on average last approximately 2 years.  Which means it can be shorter or longer.. so lets not get caught up on the 2 years number.  However, this phase does seem to cause what some call looking at the relationship with "Rose Coloured Glasses".  Once this effects of the phase start to recede we begin to have more balanced view of our reality.  Many relationships function rather effectively through this phase, but others not so much.  When consider divorce rates, it's interesting to consider that 1/3 of divorces occur within the first 3 years.  It would be interesting to know if this is still within the first 3 years of the intimate realationship as well.

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You claim that the success of relationship should be based off finding a compatible partner that doesn't require you to change. I agree to a degree, but unfortunately if that relationship is going to have longevity, the fact that people grow and change has to be addressed. So obviously if during the relationship we will have to work toward closing the gap that occurs by that change and growth, why isn't change and growth to make a relationship work okay?

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If we take a look at this at solely on a principle of probability, finding a partner who doesn't require you to change or work past differences AT ALL has chances in a range that are completely unrealistic.

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You say that you are willing to take input and willing to change to some degree, but aren't willing to "mold yourself to another person's ideals" like we are doing. You don't seem to have any specific criterion as to what change is acceptable and what change quantifies as being the negative of "conforming to another person's ideals" so this statement doesn't seem to be based on logic but rather on ego. Your okay with changing just as long as that change doesn't insult your own dominance.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

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ORIGINAL: TheMadBunny
And if being willing to be influenced by my submissive in regards to my decisions contradicts and negates my possession of authority in the relationship, then I will be the first one to turn in my Master card.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. "MY" way includes her way. It's as simple as that. If that makes me a wishy washy Master, no worries there, I'm pretty ok with being "That guy who's woman obeys him and who has a deliriously happy marriage." From a "marketing" standpoint, I have to observe that for every sub out there who wants a badass dom, there appears to be another who wants a caring, loving relationship so if the target audience is any guide (and what the hell else would be a guide?) then apparently it IS domly to care about your sub and to recognize her value as a life partner, not simply a slave.

What I find most interesting about the "my way or the highway" thought pattern is that these people have, apparently, not given much thought to why, exactly, a smart, competent, and capable submissive would be following them. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that smart, competent, and capable people (which is who I want as a partner for the rest of my life), make choices that enhance their own lives. That implies that somehow, this person who is smart, must be convinced that following my lead is better for them than not. If I have failed to incorporate their needs, wants, desires, and dreams into my lead, then I'm not really sure how I could really make that claim.

I do things my way because I enjoy it and what I'm looking for is someone who is "looking in the same direction I am"(taken off of Darcyandthe.dark's tag line I believe :>
There are females who enjoy what you seem to look down on.  I won't mold myself to someone Else's idea of what I should be whether it's the female or another Dominant. Yet I don't disregard her input either.

It's not a bad thing to learn your partner as best you can but it's also a better idea I think to pick those partners that best suit you. If you want to grab the first female you can and try to "broaden" your horizons..go to it. I'll stick to what I know works for me.
If I'm suspect for it, I'll be glad to turn in My Dominants Members Only Card.

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ORIGINAL: Padriag

I'm both amazed and amused this argument is still going.  I'm even making popcorn.  That and wondering when any of those involved are going to finally stop trying to change the other's mind and actually practice some of that "tolerance" and "your kink may not be my kink..." crap that gets waved on a banner here so often.  Not that I'm holding my breath waiting, but it is entertaining.

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ORIGINAL: Padriag

I'm both amazed and amused this argument is still going.  I'm even making popcorn.  That and wondering when any of those involved are going to finally stop trying to change the other's mind and actually practice some of that "tolerance" and "your kink may not be my kink..." crap that gets waved on a banner here so often.  Not that I'm holding my breath waiting, but it is entertaining.

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

Hey, to be clear Icarys, I'm not sure that I am disagreeing with you.

So long as you have somehow gotten your subs needs/desires/goals/etc. included in your own, then all is good. I dont' care how that happened. Perhaps you found someone who was close enough then did some adjusting on your own. Perhaps you waited longer until you found someone who is perfect and did no adjusting. Either way, no worries. Sub's needs are going to be dealt with so relationship succeeds.

My only real concern with what you've said is I'm not sure how you intend to deal with the fact that people change over time. So the perfect woman today will be imperfect tomorrow.

Just as an aside now, I'll point out that you haven't really encompassed my viewpoint quite right. So you know, I don't see myself "compromising" to obtain a woman. I just have a bigger bullseye to hit than you. But it's still a bullseye to me. In addition, I'm not quite sure how to work out what happened between my wife and I in your system. Here she is, the woman that has been making me very happy for almost 15 years now. But damn, if I had ever produced a list of all the things I wanted in a woman, there is NO way I ever would've picked her.

Really, when you get down to it, I think the only point worth making about this whole "my way/her way" thing is that somehow, any viable relationship must start providing the wants/needs of BOTH participants and must have a way to ensure that continues to be true over long periods of time. That's just a given of "relationship math". How any given couple achieves that and what exactly those needs/wants are is all entirely variable.

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ORIGINAL: Padriag

Well... I'm tempted to smile mysteriously and walk away... except you couldn't actually see that and which ruins the whole effect.  So... guess I'll be serious.

The answer is... yes, I find much of the so called "tolerance" and supposed acceptance of one another often tauted on these forae to be so much horse hockey.  People are often paying PC lip service to how "there's no one twue way" while industriously arguing with others about how their own way is correct and the other person's is wrong.  Don't look now Betty, but we're knee deep in hipocrisy and the river's still rising.

This "debate" has turned into a pissing contest between various parties about who's theory on relationships is "right" and who's "wrong"... truth is, do what the fuck you want so long as it makes you happy and who the hell cares what anyone else does.  Course if most of those involved really believed that, this thread would have died six pages ago... an that would have spoiled the opportunity for several individuals to stroke their egos and puff up their feathers.