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RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 4:03:16 AM

Prunesquallor

Posts: 181
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crazytwice

I understand that because I'm new to this lifestyle, I still struggle with questions many have had to face. Is this normal? What is my motivation? What if I find myself in a relationship and discover D/s just isn't a fit?

It's not a question of D/s not being a fit; it's a question of the relationship being a fit. D/s is different for every couple. The difficulty comes in finding someone whose D/s corresponds with yours.

I had a look at your profile, and the thing I do take issue with is your insistence that the relationship work as a vanilla one, before D/s is introduced. That won't work. Not if you are looking for genuine D/s and not a bit of slap and tickle. A Dom is a dom and a sub is a sub, and you can't start a relationship and ignore that aspect of it. That would be torturing the relationship to fit a preconceived format, and the resultant vanilla relationship wouldn't be representative of anything.

I can understand why you are preoccupied with these questions, but there does come a point at which too much analysis is paralysing. I think you should just go with the flow - read up about what you need to negotiate and understand a relationship, ask for plenty of advice, and then go for it. You might make mistakes - but then we all do that. :)

(in reply to Crazytwice)

Post #: 21

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 6:14:27 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prunesquallor
I had a look at your profile, and the thing I do take issue with is your insistence that the relationship work as a vanilla one, before D/s is introduced. That won't work. Not if you are looking for genuine D/s and not a bit of slap and tickle. A Dom is a dom and a sub is a sub, and you can't start a relationship and ignore that aspect of it. That would be torturing the relationship to fit a preconceived format, and the resultant vanilla relationship wouldn't be representative of anything.

Not true, plenty of people do exactly that. We've got some great examples here on collarme.

As well, a majority of people prefer meeting "vanilla" first and THEN getting into the Ds dynamic. How long until they cross the mark of "never able to be a geniune (nice swap for real/true btw) Ds relationship"? 2 dates? A month? A year? After they get married?

I agree that ignoring something that's there is pointless, and that trying to fit into some external mold is pointless.

But PLENTY of people get into relationships as vanilla and transfer into a healthy strong Ds relationship.

(in reply to Prunesquallor)

Post #: 22

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 6:46:01 AM

DelRey

Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelRey

I would think the majority of “real doms” will quickly get offline after a reasonable amount of time in the online introduction stage and bring you to our real world at least for a face to face, chemistry has to take over from there.

As a "Real Dom” I would rather meet someone in person and then determine if there is a chance for a deeper relationship rather than to have my pants down around my ankles chatting or IMing to excess. I am sure there are instances or exceptions to the rule however, at least IMHO I’ll leave the online relationships and the cyber-play to the adolescence and the pretenders.

DelRey,

I have two questions, what is a "real dom" and what is a "reasonable amount of time"?

What is real to you may be fake to another and what is reasonable to me may be unreasonable for someone else. Just because my Lord and I spent six months chatting, emailing and talking on the phone did not make him or I any less real or less committed in our desire to get to know each other and then meet face to face. Nor was there any "cyber-play" involved just because we were on-line chatting. Talking with someone on-line does not make you an adolescent or a pretender.

Knight's kyra

Why is it people do not read posts in their
entire context and or only key on an item to quibble about?

You may have fit into the exception that I talked about and 6 months may have been "reasonable" to you as a couple.

The bigger point is as a Dom, I/we like possessions in the real world and like to get down to business. Lets face it, until there is a face to face you got NOTHING in the real word. If a 6 month online relationship sparks after the meeting, Great, you are a winner. On the other hand if that warm and fuzzy cyber relationship crashes after the face to face then you are only 6 months closer to your demise.

del Rey

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 23

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 7:13:54 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

Lets face it, until there is a face to face you got NOTHING in the real word.

I agree with this.
Until you meet, face to face, what do you really have?
A fantasy. A telephone connection. A sharing of pictures. A sharing of info. A fun pen pal.
But it is not yet real.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to DelRey)

Post #: 24

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 7:43:04 AM

DelRey

Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Lets face it, until there is a face to face you got NOTHING in the real word.

I agree with this.
Until you meet, face to face, what do you really have?
A fantasy. A telephone connection. A sharing of pictures. A sharing of info. A fun pen pal.
But it is not yet real.

I don’t know if you were being facetious, If you weren’t I would say, " Exactly !, you may not know it and you may be cybering without knowing it is really some dude named Bubba who is doing 20 to life for stalking some 10 year old for the 132nd time." Geeeeeeeeez, that never happens....... Yeah right.....

del Rey

< Message edited by DelRey -- 12/14/2005 7:45:26 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 25

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 7:53:42 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I am being serious.

If you are looking for chat/pen pals you don't need to worry about every detail. You can carry on and have fun.

If it is something you may possibly want to make *real*, you need to meet.

I think the biggest barrier is agreeing on the time frame. Some people like to chat for a longer time than others. Some feel a sense of urgency because they are interested. It just depends.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to DelRey)

Post #: 26

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 9:52:50 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

Because of my apprehension and inherent shyness, my getting to know a Dominant is a very slow process. It takes weeks to months for me to move off CM onto regular e-mail, phone and a first meet. I give the impression that I'm not sincere, that I'm creating an uphill battle, even that I'm "playing hard to get".

The impression I would get is that you may claim it is shyness but it could easily be something else -- like your kink is just to remain on-line or worse, that you are a guy who gets off jerking others around. It implies that you would rather hide behind a computer until your fantasies about the other get strong enough to draw you out to meet, and I just think that dooms anything to follow. Besides, you meet people every day at work or even the grocery store, and if you are finding excuses not to get together for an informal cup of coffee then I would just think there is something seriously wrong with you. After meeting, though, there's nothing wrong with taking your time, though a guy will probably get frustratd with that too. But that's an age old story.

quote:

Prunesquallor wrote:
I had a look at your profile, and the thing I do take issue with is your insistence that the relationship work as a vanilla one, before D/s is introduced. That won't work.

Perhaps that won't work for you, but there are other folks like me who insist on it and think that your approach is at best superficial.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to Crazytwice)

Post #: 27

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 10:13:13 AM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

Well, of course everyone has an opinion here...(and I am always amazed at how judgemental we all can be...even as we decry society judging us...)

I too, take things slow...when a dom wants to go from 'hello' to 'kneel' without knowing me, who I am, and why....and without my trust and respect...I would find that to be a surface relationship at best, and not what works for me.

Another nice thing (imho) in waiting and expecting respect and courtesy, is the type of person you attract...

I have heard horror stories of rude, hurried, uncaring doms....of subs feeling as if they were only used...or had no worth. (and not in a FUN way either! *g*)

The people I have met...and the ones I continue to communicate with, are, well-spoken, polite, intelligent, and v v interesting. (they have some other v nice qualities as well!)

Perhaps the ones who are in such a hurry haven't considered the implications of taking a strong woman...owning her mind, her thoughts and her heart...and making her beg to see you...to need to see you, to yearn for you so much, it is as essential as air...making her beg to submit to you...and needing it so bad, she shakes...

Ok, well, uhm...having trouble typing for some reason! *s*

Just follow your heart...when the dance is right...it flows...you will know...

Christina

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 28

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 10:17:02 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
Well, of course everyone has an opinion here...(and I am always amazed at how judgemental we all can be...even as we decry society judging us...)

I support judging. Using good judgement is a necessary skill as a responsible adult.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 29

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 10:36:39 AM

Crazytwice

Posts: 145
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: North of Boston
Status: offline

I feel compelled to add my 2 cents but don't know how to cut and paste quotes so please bear with me:

Delray, you write: Why is it people do not read posts in their entirety and only key in on an item to quibble about?

You, in fact, did that when you wrote your intitial answer to my question. I wrote " it takes weeks to months for me to move off CM... [to] a first meet... for me, opening up to someone, letting them in, is often a slow... process".

I stated this fact, gave a reason, and went looking to see how or if a dom would deal with that part of my personality.

You responded and clearly wouldn't be interested in tolerating that, which is fine.
It was just one of the different answers I was expecting.

But you focused on one thing- the time element- and chose not to address my concerns with trust that I was trying to articulate. To drive home your point, your words were not well-chosen. You introduced yourself as a "real dom", and wrote that you would quickly get off-line after a reasonable amount of time. A contradiction there, I'm thinking, in that-
how is "quickly" (DEFINED) and "reasonable amount of time" (UNDEFINED), one and the same?

You further wrote that the only chance I have of knowing if there is potential for a deeper
relationship is to bring me to "our real world for a face to face". I wrote that I have met and spoke with other doms and subs. You must have missed that line. These people that I have met, are they from another world than the one you speak of? Who, exactly, is a member of "our world"? The implication here being, of course, that there is a club with "real doms" and "real expectations" and if I cannot adhere to these expexctations then I must therefore not be "real".

The notion of what is real and what is true is further elaborated when you state you'll "leave the on-line relationships ... to the adolescents and the pretenders". I'm sure this line hit way below the belt for some. People are here online for a variety of reasons, be it distance, trust, pacing oneself, or simply because they are seeking an online relationship only. Perhaps they are not part of your world, but they are all part of this world.

Although you concede there must be exceptions, are they, as a rule, all adolescents and pretenders engaging in cyber play with their pants down around their ankles? This implication is very offensive. It's no wonder you have pissed off some people.

So I hope I have addresses each and every line of your post rather than keying on one line to quibble about. Perhaps now it is more clear to you why there was dissension.

CT

_____________________________

"If you build it, he will come"
~Field of Dreams~

(in reply to DelRey)

Post #: 30

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 11:15:56 AM

Crazytwice

Posts: 145
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: North of Boston
Status: offline

Christina,

What a lovely post. Words of wisdom.

Many words of wisdom here. Thanks again to all.

CT

_____________________________

"If you build it, he will come"
~Field of Dreams~

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 31

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 12:00:58 PM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Amen. I would put up with you for about 3 emails. An old country expression pretty much sums it up;
"Shit or get off the pot."

LovingMaster

Fast people are not better than slow people; each interaction has its own pace, so sometimes fast people go slowly and slow people go fast; and what all of us wishes to avoid is some uncomfortable face to face meeting that never should have happened, so i think we all want/need/desire some assurance that the chemistry is right -- as much as possible -- before the face to face.

There's no hard and fast rule. i will say, if after 3 IM's or emails, a Dom insisted on a face to face meeting, i'd drop Him. He knows very little about me, apparently doesn't need to know more, and comes off looking like a fake who only wants a one-night stand. See? Everyone's perceptions and decisions about staying on-line are peculiar to them, and no hard and fast rule can be laid down.

candystripper

(in reply to lovingmaster45)

Post #: 32

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 12:47:27 PM

GeneGG

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

i spoke with my Mast er for a year before meeting him ... we did have the problem of distance to deal with from Cali to NYC so we took out time ... and for me it was worth it ... i livein Cali now ... :) ... dont let any one rush you or do something out side of your comfort zone

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 33

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/14/2005 2:35:50 PM

Prunesquallor

Posts: 181
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Not true, plenty of people do exactly that. We've got some great examples here on collarme.

As well, a majority of people prefer meeting "vanilla" first and THEN getting into the Ds dynamic. How long until they cross the mark of "never able to be a geniune (nice swap for real/true btw) Ds relationship"? 2 dates? A month? A year? After they get married?

I think many people meet on a vanilla basis first and foremost, certainly if they meet through something like collarme. But that is not what I meant. I am certain there are many married couples who discover they have a mutual interest in BDSM and finally take that step. But that is not what I meant either. I feel there are probably very few people who meet in a BDSM context and then wait for a year before they go D/s. What I meant was that in my opinion it won't work if you go into a vanilla relationship with the ultimate intention of making it D/s some time in the undefined future, which is what the OP seemed to be saying.

You seem to be disagreeing with something I haven't said just for the sake of it. Either that or I have got even worse at expressing what I mean. which I suppose is equally likely. :)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 34

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/16/2005 8:07:58 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelRey

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelRey

I would think the majority of “real doms” will quickly get offline after a reasonable amount of time in the online introduction stage and bring you to our real world at least for a face to face, chemistry has to take over from there.

As a "Real Dom” I would rather meet someone in person and then determine if there is a chance for a deeper relationship rather than to have my pants down around my ankles chatting or IMing to excess. I am sure there are instances or exceptions to the rule however, at least IMHO I’ll leave the online relationships and the cyber-play to the adolescence and the pretenders.

DelRey,

I have two questions, what is a "real dom" and what is a "reasonable amount of time"?

What is real to you may be fake to another and what is reasonable to me may be unreasonable for someone else. Just because my Lord and I spent six months chatting, emailing and talking on the phone did not make him or I any less real or less committed in our desire to get to know each other and then meet face to face. Nor was there any "cyber-play" involved just because we were on-line chatting. Talking with someone on-line does not make you an adolescent or a pretender.

Knight's kyra

Why is it people do not read posts in their
entire context and or only key on an item to quibble about?

You may have fit into the exception that I talked about and 6 months may have been "reasonable" to you as a couple.

The bigger point is as a Dom, I/we like possessions in the real world and like to get down to business. Lets face it, until there is a face to face you got NOTHING in the real word. If a 6 month online relationship sparks after the meeting, Great, you are a winner. On the other hand if that warm and fuzzy cyber relationship crashes after the face to face then you are only 6 months closer to your demise.

del Rey

Why is it that a person can't answer a simple question???

question one... what is a "Real Dom"? mmmmmmmm well all you did was make a universal claim that we like possessions in the real world and get down to business..... if this is your answer... well I have to say it is your opinion, but it sure isn't mine .... I guess I put alittle more into the um "Real" Dom term.... which is a bullshit term in of itself btw.

question two... what is a "reasonable amount of time" again you reall don't state what you think is a reasonable amount for you... except that you except to meet face to face... But WHEN, is it reasonable to expect to meet someone that you have first came in contact with in an online environment?.....

THe bigger point is!!!!... when someone responses to a direct question but actually avoids/evades the direct question ... it's usually because they don't have an answer in the first place!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 12/16/2005 8:10:51 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DelRey)

Post #: 35

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/16/2005 9:19:21 AM

Webmaster60

Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Is expecting a Dominant to tolerate my pace unreasonable?
I have read that many expect a meet within a few weeks to determine if there is potential.
Do some of you prefer the slower process and why?

For myself:
I can't tollerate the whole "online" courting process. I think its all bullshit. I move as quickly as possible toward a real time flesh to flesh meeting. Now.. Consider safely first, ALWAYS.. make safe calls, identification etc BUT seriously;
You can spend an ETERNITY here swapping mails, blah blah blah.. but at the end of the day, you still don't know shit. People lie.. ALOT.. period. And how much you agree/see eye-to-eye/have in common etc.. all that doesn't tell you the most important thing. Is there any chemistry?
Now from a Masters perspective, I tend to sieze the moment and anything else I want. I'm not prone to wait and play courting games.. Exchange a mail or two, see if its worth looking at.. THEN make the necessary safety arrangements and MEET. Public.. coffee.. whatever. but if a girl refuses to get out of cyberspace quickly, I've no use for her.
I realize that the number of wanna-be's and perps out there may make my approach unrealistic for some.. But thats just me..

_____________________________

Master Michael
~~~~~~~~~~
"To sin in silence when he should
speak makes cowards of men"

(in reply to Crazytwice)

Post #: 36

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/16/2005 9:22:57 AM

DelRey

Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline

listen folks, your panties are all buched up. Relax, take deep breath.

The original post brought up a topic and or asked question/s I answered the question in the form of my opinion "I.M.H.O" plain and simple. You do not have to agree or disagree. I is my opinion. You wanna take shots go a head. Will it change my opinion? NO.

I reiderate, "Online relationships are like a good book that leaves you warm and fuzzy, all you have is a hope and a dream. That is it UNTIL YOU BRING THE RELATIONSHIP INTO THE REAL WORLD AND MEET.

Knight of Mists, or anyone else, If you are looking for me to defend an opinion your barking up the wrong tree.

I stated my opinion, case closed.

del Rey

(in reply to Prunesquallor)

Post #: 37

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/16/2005 9:39:49 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelRey

listen folks, your panties are all buched up. Relax, take deep breath.

The original post brought up a topic and or asked question/s I answered the question in the form of my opinion "I.M.H.O" plain and simple. You do not have to agree or disagree. I is my opinion. You wanna take shots go a head. Will it change my opinion? NO.

I reiderate, "Online relationships are like a good book that leaves you warm and fuzzy, all you have is a hope and a dream. That is it UNTIL YOU BRING THE RELATIONSHIP INTO THE REAL WORLD AND MEET.

Knight of Mists, or anyone else, If you are looking for me to defend an opinion your barking up the wrong tree.

I stated my opinion, case closed.

del Rey

LMAO

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DelRey)

Post #: 38

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/16/2005 9:41:01 AM

Webmaster60

Posts: 396
Joined: 9/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

question two... what is a "reasonable amount of time" again you reall don't state what you think is a reasonable amount for you... except that you except to meet face to face... But WHEN, is it reasonable to expect to meet someone that you have first came in contact with in an online environment?.....

It seems that we disagree on procedure. ok fine..
The question above wasn't directed at me, but since it seems my opinion on procedure seem to follow that of the person you asked...
Whats a "reasonable" amount of time? Hmm.. lol.. I don't have an answer.
Best I can say is.. "online", I need to accomplish:
1. Are we reasonably suited? similar ideals about M/s? Similar goals?
2. What obstacles might there be to cultivating such a relationship?
3. Are you a psycho in disguise? or a player? (not easily answered)
4. Are the physical aspects acceptable? (looks)
5. What do you need/want to know from/about me?

Once those questions are answered, we meet or I move on. simple.. I don't have a 'time line' on this but I certainly would not carry on for 6-months. NOT knocking you, but for me? "come on!".. what are we doing? There is no way I'd invest 6-months into a relationship if I didn't KNOW there was chemistry.. The ONLY way you can determine that is to meet, face to face, flesh to flesh and SEE.

_____________________________

Master Michael
~~~~~~~~~~
"To sin in silence when he should
speak makes cowards of men"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 39

RE: Seeking Doms' input... - 12/16/2005 10:10:47 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webmaster60

quote:

question two... what is a "reasonable amount of time" again you reall don't state what you think is a reasonable amount for you... except that you except to meet face to face... But WHEN, is it reasonable to expect to meet someone that you have first came in contact with in an online environment?.....

It seems that we disagree on procedure. ok fine..
The question above wasn't directed at me, but since it seems my opinion on procedure seem to follow that of the person you asked...
Whats a "reasonable" amount of time? Hmm.. lol.. I don't have an answer.
Best I can say is.. "online", I need to accomplish:
1. Are we reasonably suited? similar ideals about M/s? Similar goals?
2. What obstacles might there be to cultivating such a relationship?
3. Are you a psycho in disguise? or a player? (not easily answered)
4. Are the physical aspects acceptable? (looks)
5. What do you need/want to know from/about me?

Once those questions are answered, we meet or I move on. simple.. I don't have a 'time line' on this but I certainly would not carry on for 6-months. NOT knocking you, but for me? "come on!".. what are we doing? There is no way I'd invest 6-months into a relationship if I didn't KNOW there was chemistry.. The ONLY way you can determine that is to meet, face to face, flesh to flesh and SEE.

everyone has there own precedure or process and given opinions or preferences. If a person matches anothers then the compatibility has a good chance to move towards a fruitful relationship. However, being able to express ones opinions as well as provide clarifications to them are just as important as having them in the first place. If one can't express or answer questions that are asked of them so that their ideals are understood... then 5 minutes or 5 years of interaction is not going to make one bit of difference on if a relationship will occur or not. I believe since you can explain your opinion in a manner that provides clarification on what is reasonable... and as I see what you say... reasonable is establishing answers to your five points... and likely more as you go along.... but because you can express what is reasonable.. a potential sub/slave can know where they stand in compatiability with you... saves alot of wasted time for both parties.

I agree with you that one can't know chemistry unless one is face to face. For me 6 months wasn't a big deal... 6 months compared to many years ahead is but a drop in the bucket. Also, my situation is unique... I wasn't looking to have a relationship in the first place. I didn't ask kyra to come to see me... or even expected her to come to see me. She did it of her own accord and desire. I simply wasn't looking for anything at the time- I had my slave alandra and others in my life as well. So in some ways... having what i had, I wasn't pressured or felt rushed to find something I was lacking or missing. kyra didn't come to be because I needed her to fill something missing in my life... she came and added dramatically to my happiness and well-being. She came because I happen to take the time to allow the fine wine to develope and mature so that it indeed could become fine wine.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Webmaster60)

Post #: 40

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