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RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/27/2008 5:28:16 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

If anyone is still interested in the actual topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It doesn't disqualify anyone if they don't use it in initial emails or friendly conversations.

I was about to ask: if a Domme refers to herself with capitals on e.g. "My" in a profile, should a prospective sub do that when first writing to such a Domme? I wouldn't, as a rule of the thumb. So, usual rule then: standard language, standard style of getting to know someone generally, till there are clear signs to start doing otherwise.

Not if it's not your personal style. It may give you a hint to hers, and what she might expect of you if there is a potential match. I can say that I've noticed it more often from those who run a dynamic with a bit more protocol, or lean a bit towards leather. It can come up at times with switches, using lower case when they are referring to themselves as the submissive in a particular dynamic, and capped when referring to themselves in the Dominant role.

Just an aside, there are specifically several posts where there has been some inconsistency on this particular subject. While many have said they don't use incorrect capitalization, go back and look how many have done the exact same, when either typing out, or abbreviating for the word "Dominant."

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 10/27/2008 6:18:56 PM >

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 41

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/27/2008 5:31:54 PM

hereyesruponyou

Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline

i don't use any capitalization unless really necessary because i type like crap and am lazy. i prefer text message style. besides, as long as i am the dominant i can certainly choose to do as i please...right???

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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 42

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/27/2008 5:47:30 PM

ThundersCry

Posts: 892
Status: offline

Kinda silly...huh

If thats what it takes so one can have/wield more power over another...well

you get my point...

(in reply to michaels1r)

Post #: 43

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/27/2008 7:06:39 PM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

Agadoo doo doo
Write to subbies, use slashyspeak
Agadoo doo doo
Use your caps on Collarme
On the boards, on the threads
Get all the subbies writing on their knees
Come and post every night
On the boards on Collarme

I found a dominant Mistress
Somewhere down in Mississippi
Well she was posting on threads
Using the caps to denote she
And when I wrote her a mail
To say how pretty was her face
She told me if you write again
You must use lower case

No using the capital I
For the dominant is I
And all the capitals you see
Are meant only for me

Agadoo doo doo
Write to subbies, use slashyspeak
Agadoo doo doo
Use your caps on Collarme
On the boards, on the threads
Get all the subbies writing on their knees
Come and post every night
On the boards on Collarme

And further in mails
She wrote of her craft
But butchering English
I just felt so daft

Agadoo doo doo
Write to subbies, use slashyspeak
Agadoo doo doo
Use your caps on Collarme
On the boards, on the threads
Get all the subbies writing on their knees
Come and post every night
On the boards on Collarme

All those who read this thread
With Black Lace in their head
With all the subs and the dommes
Will all be singing this song

Agadoo doo doo
Write to subbies, use slashyspeak
Agadoo doo doo
Use your caps on Collarme
On the boards, on the threads
Get all the subbies writing on their knees
Come and post every night
On the boards on Collarme

apologies to Black Lace

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also Facebook
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Post #: 44

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/27/2008 9:06:21 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

Hmm. I use Domme with a capital "D" . . .

There are three things that go against the "lets use proper grammar argument" for me.

One is that BDSM and everything related to it is in many senses a "new subject" - one that's being "pioneered". It has to find ways of expressing lots of new ideas, feelings, activities, etc. In any other "field", new terms are invented for the purpose. So, if we're to have new terms, why not changes in grammar too? Why is it OK to mould words to fit the purpose, but not OK to mould even the tiniest bits of grammar ?

The second is that it's a quick, powerfully-symbolic, way of starting to get into the 'mode' of a D/s relationship. It could help bypass a lot of faffing about - a lot of woolliness with regard to whether/how you're beginning a vanilla-style friendship, or a D/s one.

The third is the good old one of "each to his/her own". If we're to hold to that principle with regard to something majorly important - as we do with the various sexual tendencies represented here, then we should be able to do the same with regard to relatively small tinkerings with grammar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If anyone is still interested in the actual topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It doesn't disqualify anyone if they don't use it in initial emails or friendly conversations.

I was about to ask: if a Domme refers to herself with capitals on e.g. "My" in a profile, should a prospective sub do that when first writing to such a Domme? I wouldn't, as a rule of the thumb. So, usual rule then: standard language, standard style of getting to know someone generally, till there are clear signs to start doing otherwise.

Not if it's not your personal style. It may give you a hint to hers, and what she might expect of you if there is a potential match. I can say that I've noticed it more often from those who run a dynamic with a bit more protocol, or lean a bit towards leather. It can come up at times with switches, using lower case when they are referring to themselves as the submissive in a particular dynamic, and capped when referring to themselves in the Dominant role.

Just an aside, there are specifically several posts where there has been some inconsistency on this particular subject. While many have said they don't use incorrect capitalization, go back and look how many have done the exact same, when either typing out, or abbreviating for the word "Dominant."

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/27/2008 9:09:23 PM >

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 45

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/27/2008 9:39:19 PM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

If we're to hold to that principle with regard to something majorly important - as we do with the various sexual tendencies represented here, then we should be able to do the same with regard to relatively small tinkerings with grammar.

If you submitted a paper for publication that didn't conform to the established rules of grammar, punctuation, and syntax, do you think your publisher would excuse these "relatively small tinkerings"? In all honesty, a sub who needs this kind of window dressing in order to feel submissive isn't someone I'd likely be interested in. I want someone who feels submissive to me without having to play "dress up."

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 46

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/27/2008 10:17:52 PM

Usako

Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
One is that BDSM and everything related to it is in many senses a "new subject" - one that's being "pioneered". It has to find ways of expressing lots of new ideas, feelings, activities, etc. In any other "field", new terms are invented for the purpose. So, if we're to have new terms, why not changes in grammar too? Why is it OK to mould words to fit the purpose, but not OK to mould even the tiniest bits of grammar ?

Yes, we should butcher a system that has been in place and works fine so kinksters can remind themselves of their roles, or better yet, just feel self important. I feel the same way with this as I do at the concept of teaching freaking ebonics in an actually school. Heaven help the world if they make a class on "chat speak" one day. Bad enough my friend, who is a teacher, said she was told not to correct her special ed class and let them spell things phonetically if it happened; I hope that's not a board wide trend for all students.

I don't see anything being "pioneered" I see fancy shamncy dom/mes thinking they're so important to be called My or Master or Him or Her. Those are not proper nouns; period. Your name is. So what if your a slave, it's I not i! None of this shit is from it being a "new subject" it's because of the damn internet. When you meet someone face to face they don't say "Hello My (with a capital M) name is Mistress (with another capital M) Donna. Nice to meet you" or "W/we (Upper case W slash lower case w) are new here. you (lower case y) are slave ned (lower case n because you're a slave) right?" Nope, it's all thanks to the internet, birth place of u lyke omg lol etc. And that's what I lump it as, bad chat speak for the kinky folk.

I guess we can mirror it to the whole womyn jargin that feminist use but it's the same boat. All for show.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The second is that it's a quick, powerfully-symbolic, way of starting to get into the 'mode' of a D/s relationship. It could help bypass a lot of faffing about - a lot of woolliness with regard to whether/how you're beginning a vanilla-style friendship, or a D/s one.

I'm going to add a why the flying fuck does someone need to be reminded that much that they're in D/s. If you're submissive then you're submissive, congrats. Lowecasing your i's doesn't make you any more or less submissive, just makes your post harder to read for the rest of society; thanks a lot.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 47

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 3:17:22 AM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Lockit wrote:
I do not think of a submissive as less than I am and therefore I get a bit of a red flag when someone writes me and uses... i... rather than I. If they walk in thinking less of themselves or thinking I think less of them, they are typically not my type. I see us as equals, just different.

This seems like an odd thing to say. In your mind, using `i' and `You' indicates a feeling of inferiority or projects that onto you but perhaps, in the sub's mind, using `i' and `You' is an expression of the fact that he or she is in a different role but still equal to you.

Sure, if they walk in feeling less of themselves or that you think that of them, they're not going to be your type. But I don't see how capitalization indicates that they feel that way.

beeble.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 48

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 3:25:48 AM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

PeonForHer wrote:
Yet, there is something superior/inferior about a D/s relationship, isn't there?

Not really, no. I have given my Mistress control of certain aspects of my life but that doens't mean that I'm somehow less of a person than she is. She has power and control over me because I give it to her, not because she's superior to me. If she were somehow superior, she would have that power and control without needing my consent and therein lies abuse.

beeble

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 49

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 3:33:57 AM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

PeonForHer wrote:
One is that BDSM and everything related to it is in many senses a "new subject" - one that's being "pioneered". It has to find ways of expressing lots of new ideas, feelings, activities, etc. In any other "field", new terms are invented for the purpose. So, if we're to have new terms, why not changes in grammar too?

Actually, being entirely hyper-pedantic, capitalization isn't a matter of grammar but of orthography. Grammar is about the relationships between words and structures formed from them; orthography is about how it's written down.

Not that this changes the argument in any significant way.

beeble

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 50

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 3:43:33 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Just an aside, there are specifically several posts where there has been some inconsistency on this particular subject. While many have said they don't use incorrect capitalization, go back and look how many have done the exact same, when either typing out, or abbreviating for the word "Dominant."

Yep. I'm one of those. However, I tend to capitalize Dom/me as though it were a title like Mr. or Ms. I even 'slip up' and capitalize Sub from time to time as well. *shrug* I never pretended to be perfect.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 51

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 3:45:02 AM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Venatrix wrote:
If you submitted a paper for publication that didn't conform to the established rules of grammar, punctuation, and syntax, do you think your publisher would excuse these "relatively small tinkerings"?

Straw man. I wouldn't be writing the paper in my role as a submissive so I wouldn't use the conventions that apply to my submissive life. Likewise, I wouldn't kneel naked before my bank manager and beg him for an overdraft.

quote:

In all honesty, a sub who needs this kind of window dressing in order to feel submissive isn't someone I'd likely be interested in. I want someone who feels submissive to me without having to play "dress up."

A sub who *needs* to do this to feel submissive, sure. But are there really many people like that around? People who would genuinely feel less submissive if they wrote `I' instead of `i'? (Even if a Domme told them to? Ha! Paradox!

) As far as I can see, this isn't about needing things in order to feel submissive but, rather, using things like this to express their submission.

beeble

(in reply to Venatrix)

Post #: 52

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 3:56:56 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

Speaking of slip ups and work... my fav Wall-e mentioned that he accidentally typed a 'You' in the middle of a sentence for a Power Point presentation at work. Not good. Sometimes, those little things just slip into your 'fingers' and show up in your work place. Much like interchanging your and you're.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to beeble)

Post #: 53

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 4:02:15 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

But some of these things already have become conventions in the BDSM world, Usako, even amongst those who claim to hate the general idea of it (including me). I use "Domme", but pair it with "sub". You finished your post there with:

I'm going to add a why the flying fuck does someone need to be reminded that much that they're in D/s. If you're submissive then you're submissive, congrats.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Usako)

Post #: 54

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 4:03:26 AM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Usako wrote: I don't see anything being "pioneered" I see fancy shamncy dom/mes thinking they're so important to be called My or Master or Him or Her. Those are not proper nouns; period. Your name is.

There's an `e.e. cummings' for you on line 3.

quote:

So what if your a slave, it's I not i!

But this has nothing to do with proper nouns, since `I' is a pronoun.

quote:

When you meet someone face to face they don't say "Hello My (with a capital M) name is Mistress (with another capital M) Donna."

First, there's absolutely nothing wrong with `Mistress Donna'. `Mistress' is being used as a title, like `Mr' or `Mrs' and such titles are routinely capitalized. What's at issue is sentences like, `My name is Donna and I am a Mistress.' (Consider, for example, `Hello, I am Professor Donna Smith' versus `Hello, I am Donna Smith and I am a professor.')

Second, this argument just doesn't hold water. People never explicitly announce capitalization or punctuation when speaking. It's correct to write `Hello, my name is Donna' but she wouldn't say, `Hello (with a capital H), (comma) my name is Donna (with a capital D).' So, if your argument is valid, she should just write `hello my name is donna'.

beeble

(in reply to Usako)

Post #: 55

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 4:10:55 AM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Usako wrote:
I'm going to add a why the flying fuck does someone need to be reminded that much that they're in D/s. If you're submissive then you're submissive, congrats. Lowecasing your i's doesn't make you any more or less submissive,

But you just did it youself! Why `D/s' and not `D/S' or even just `DS' ?

beeble

(in reply to Usako)

Post #: 56

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 4:18:59 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

See? Little slip ups. When one touch types, you do not think of each letter that you press. You think of the word and the fingers move automatically to form them. When one sees words written a given way over and over, the mind and therefor the fingers 'learn' to do it that way. It becomes subconscious... or 'muscle memory'. When conversing on a forum where the majority of people use Dom/me or D/s... the others start to pick up the 'habit' as well. I believe that was what Peon meant by his comment regarding tweaking the language.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to beeble)

Post #: 57

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 4:30:29 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

If you submitted a paper for publication that didn't conform to the established rules of grammar, punctuation, and syntax, do you think your publisher would excuse these "relatively small tinkerings"?

Yes, I already have. I used "Green" versus "green" to distinguish between radical ecological standpoints (taken by those, e.g., who are in Green Parties) and the milder versions of support for environmental protection as adopted by established parties in the UK. I followed just a handful of others in that respect. It didn't catch on - because it wasn't helpful in the end.

It's odd which of these things are hated at first but then become the convention. "Ms" was once loathed for many of the reasons people are complaining about here. However, it's accepted even amongst some very conservative sorts of people, now.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Venatrix)

Post #: 58

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 4:31:50 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

I saw it first, Beeble.!

quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

Usako wrote:
I'm going to add a why the flying fuck does someone need to be reminded that much that they're in D/s. If you're submissive then you're submissive, congrats. Lowecasing your i's doesn't make you any more or less submissive,

But you just did it youself! Why `D/s' and not `D/S' or even just `DS' ?

beeble

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to beeble)

Post #: 59

RE: Lower case, upper case. - 10/28/2008 4:49:38 AM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

PeonForHer wrote:
I saw it first, Beeble.!

I saw it in your quoted text but hadn't noticed that you'd boldfaced it to point it out. You're too subtle for me.

beeble

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 60

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