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Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 6:06:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		          http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-palineffigy28-2008oct28,0,541630.story?track=rss
 
 
A West Hollywood Halloween display showing a likeness of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin hanging by a noose has caused a furor among some residents who reported it as a hate crime, authorities said Monday.

But Los Angeles County sheriff's officials said the mannequin sporting a beehive hairdo, glasses and a red coat does not rise to the level of a hate crime because it was part of a Halloween display.
 
 
           I don't think there is any doubt we would be seeing an entirely different sort of reaction if it was Barack Obama in the display.  There is even a neighbor lady in the video who is fine with the display, but says she would set the house on fire if it was Barry.

        What do you think?

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 6:11:06 PM   
camille65


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Status: offline 		The image of a black man in a noose is different from that of a white woman in a noose due to historical use (misuse).

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 6:40:51 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		It bothers me about as much as this display did
http://www.slobokan.com/archives/2008/10/11/the-obamamccain-halloween-display/
The fact that shes hanging? nah, its a routine thing for hallloween.
Lucy




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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 6:50:11 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		It's distasteful, but ditto what Camille said - the noose is a potent symbol of a disgusting, shameful aspect of  history.

Personally, I think these kinds of hateful, violent images are not okay, and should not be tolerated.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 7:35:47 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		While disgusting,it being Halloween and all...no I don't think this qualifies as a hate crime.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 7:43:34 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		      So what I'm getting here is an attitude that we need to preserve an institutional racist bias in how our laws are enforced.  Is that about right?

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 7:45:53 PM   
Sanity


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Sometimes I'm torn, when confronted with things like this. Should stupidity really be a crime?

I don't know...


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     So what I'm getting here is an attitude that we need to preserve an institutional racist bias in how our laws are enforced.  Is that about right?


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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 7:52:30 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        I find the whole notion of "hate crimes" wrong, especially when they prosecute free expression.  Since we have the laws though, isn't building in a race-based criteria for prosecution racist as well?

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 7:56:50 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Heretic,

Gotta agree with you on this one.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:00:30 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		TheHeretic...are you sayings if it's OK to put a hangman’s noose around Palin it should be OK to put a noose around a likeness of Obama?

I once had to fire a good man… a foreman… because he made a noose out of grade string and put it in an African American’s truck. He said it was a joke but I had no choice but the let him go.

If he had done the same thing at his home at Halloween, at least in my part of the country, I’m sure the local authority would have considered it a hate crime and prosecuted him.

If he had used a likeness of Palin with a noose on the job he would still be disciplined but not fired. If he used it at his home on Halloween there would be no repercussions by the authority anyway.

I doesn’t seem fair on the surface I’ll agree. But what does common sense tell you? Can you see a reason there is a difference in the two like actions?

I think to any thinking human with the very basic knowledge of the past would at least understand the why.

Butch

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:11:45 PM   
MistresseLotus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

The image of a black man in a noose is different from that of a white woman in a noose due to historical use (misuse).

I likened it to a witch hanging.

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 10/28/2008 8:12:23 PM >

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:15:42 PM   
RainydayNE


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Status: offline 		your rights end where someone else's begin. you have the right of free expression until that free expression leads you to end someone's life or otherwise infringe on their rights. it's pretty simple.
hate crimes are hate crimes because they're fueled by hate. the only ones putting a racial bias on it are the people who perpetrate them. and not just racial crimes but crimes against homosexuals or anything else like that.
there is a certain connotation that goes with mixing nooses and black people together. it's history. our society has chosen the way it wants to deal with it.
it's pretty simple.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:18:25 PM   
marieToo


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Status: offline 		Nah, I don't see it as a hate crime.  I think it's tasteless, but harmless.  If it was Obama in the noose, sure, people would most likey be having stronger reactions.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:18:31 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

The image of a black man in a noose is different from that of a white woman in a noose due to historical use (misuse).


Right because its not like woman were accused of being witches an hanged was it?

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:21:00 PM   
RainydayNE


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Status: offline 		there were men convicted in the witch hunts, too.
i imagine if the effigy of ms. palin were being burnt at the stake, people would be up in arms about it.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:45:53 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Can you see a reason there is a difference in the two like actions?




       Of course there is a difference.  One of racial preference, built into our laws. 

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:47:50 PM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Can you see a reason there is a difference in the two like actions?



laws there were made stemming from heinous actions by members of the "group in power," the group that primarily made the laws. =p

      Of course there is a difference.  One of racial preference, built into our laws. 

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 8:58:17 PM   
HunterS


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Status: offline 		[Quote]Of course there is a difference.  One of racial preference, built into our laws.[/quote]

I am sure you will agree that it was not so very long ago that the racial preference that was built into our law was the other way round.   Just how would you redress three hundred years of slavery?
Hunter 


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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:03:33 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I was hoping you wouldn’t say that TheHeretic.  A burning cross…a hangman’s noose have been used over the years to intimidate one group of people a very specific group. To them it is a threat…not just some neighborhood prank. I think you know that.

It’s not just a racial preference…If things were reversed and you were a victim… and had to worry about your family and property…I think you would sing a different tune.
Butch

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:07:24 PM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

I am sure you will agree that it was not so very long ago that the racial preference that was built into our law was the other way round.  


EXACTLY. =p

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