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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:09:47 PM

TNstepsout

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That's really inappropriate. I don't like Palin but that's just wrong.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:09:55 PM

Sanity

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If something is heinous then it's heinous itself, regardless of race or color or religion, etc. In other words, racism is bad why - because people are dehumanized (among other things) and that's wrong.

Skin color shouldn't matter, justice is supposed to be blind. Rich is correct, if the act itself is illegal then the law should see and treat everyone equally.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:27:50 PM

kdsub

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Remember the Hate Crime Law is not preferential towards African Americans... It is for all people based on.. " crimes that manifest evidence of prejudice based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity"

Intimidation is the part of the law that applies to cross burning and hangman's nooses. A noose on Palin does not meet the requirments.

Butch

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:32:16 PM

Sanity

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And you want to talk about history, look at the history of Marxism, and all the millions and millions and millions of people who have been imprisoned, tortured, and murdered, oftentimes in the most gruesome ways imaginable for what - resisting Marxist movements over the last hundred years.

The hanging Sarah Palin in effigy against that historical backdrop had ought to be as powerful a reminder of our need for vigilance against repeating past wrongs as any others there are.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/28/2008 9:41:46 PM >

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:35:28 PM

HansBrinker

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This is why though everyone still has problems understanding race relations. Dr. King said to paraphrase it a little bit, that we should be judged not by the color of our skin, but by our actions. It is like sexual harrasement where it is okay for a woman to call you honey and not the other way around.
It has to be bad both ways or ok both ways! To me a cracker is something I eat, not a perjorative term. But if someone else says it about me, it could be a bad term.
To put up a noose is just bad! It was meant to demean her plain and simple.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 9:38:25 PM

slaveboyforyou

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I don't see it as a hate crime, and I really don't care. If some nitwit thinks they are being creative or clever by hanging or burning a public figure on their front lawn.....whatever. I ignore fools.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 10:01:47 PM

TheHeretic

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Let me give you an analogy, Kd. Say I put up a fairy tale Halloween display every year, based on the witch in the gingerbread house winning, and putting Hansel and Gretel into the oven. Every four years, I toss a political twist on it. What happens if Lieberman is on the ticket? Have I committed a crime when I depict him going into the oven, or anywhere near it? Certainly insensitive, but feloniously so? Wouldn't it be racist to leave him out?

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 10:03:21 PM

Owner59

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I`m more with slaveboy.

Making the guy a 1st amendment martyr would only help him.

Putting the "artist" up to public ridicule and shame for being a low-class ass is better.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/28/2008 10:49:43 PM

giveeverything

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OP, I don't understand the point of this thread. Is it to prove that white men (or women) are being hasseled by "the man?" That they can't get a fair shake? That everythign is so weighted to benefit people of color at the expense of white people? If that is your point with this, then you live in a world that I do not recognize. Good luck with your ideas of victimization though, but I'll tell ya, one white person to another, playing the victim role here is not attractive.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 2:39:27 AM

SilverMark

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Distasteful, dis respectful and hateful....AS a public figure, although it would cause a huge stir, I think as a political statement alone you probably could hang Obama in effigy without it being against the law as you can Palin...They might ask you to take it down, and if it were to cause a riot or public disturbance they could then force you to take it down. I believe from a legal point of view(and I am no constitutional scholar) it isn't illegal as free speech goes.
If it wasn't such a serious time I would probably make a few tasteless jokes about Sarah Palin and some rope along with a much better list of uses....but, I will allow those who wish to, to fill in those blanks themselves.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 3:17:56 AM

puella

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Is it hateful and tasteless...yes. Should the neighbors be pissed and perhaps the law enforcement officials brought in, perhaps (that really depends upon local laws regarding what can and cannot be displayed on private property)...

Is it specifically a hate crime, not really.

In order for it to be a hate crime it has to have been an actual crime (which it was not) which violates the victims civil rights... like beating up gays because of their sexual orientation or say lynching a black man or gang raping a nun.

I do think it is ugly and disrespectful, and in my own mind, representative of a person who has gone over the edge, just as I thought it ugly and disrespectful and 'over the edgy' when effigies of Obama were hung in Ohio and at that Christian college in Oregon.

It should be noted however, that there are a huge number of home made 'haunted house hangings' all over this country right now, due to Halloween. I personally do not find the 'generic' hanged man all that palatable to look at either, but that is my personal opinion and to go into a diatribe about how Halloween has devolved into some sort of glorification of gore and violence or how best to publicly dress like a whore one day whilst condemning whoring the rest of the year is probably better suited to another thread.

I think kssub (or is it Butch?) made a really excellent point:

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I was hoping you would’t say that TheHeretic. A burning cross…a hangman’s noose have been used over the years to intimidate one group of people a very specific group. To them it is a threat…not just some neighborhood prank. I think you know that.

It’s not just a racial preference…If things were reversed and you were a victim… and had to worry about your family and property…I think you would sing a different tune.
Butch

To capitalize upon it as some sort of "See, see the Democrats are hypocrites!" watershed moment is a bit egregious and tasteless, I think (especially given Obama has been hanged as well....).

< Message edited by puella -- 10/29/2008 3:24:01 AM >

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 3:19:54 AM

tweedydaddy

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Images of hurting anyone are not okay for what is primarily a children's holiday.
Why not save your dislike for the voting booth?

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 4:40:51 AM

SilverMark

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adendum...
It IS legal as free speech

Damn...my typing and thoughts before gym time just don't work well together some time....

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 4:49:19 AM

Aileen1968

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Well...he didn't put them in that display because he liked them. I'm all for free speech. If he wants to look like an ass then that's his right. People will judge him on that. On the same line though, if that's ok then it should be ok to hang an image of Barack. But that's not deemed acceptable for obvious reasons. I think that people that display things like that are complete asses too, by the way. It's just that you can't say that one is acceptable and one isn't based on the free speech arguement. Rambling. No power and no coffee here this morning.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 4:50:45 AM

Irishknight

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Hanging anyone in effigy in this country should be illegal. We should view it as a threat and treat the person accordingly. I often use language in public that can be taken as a threat to people. If they charge me, I guess that I get to lose some money and do some community service. Just because I have the right to free speech doesn't mean that you don't have the right to charge me with a crime for crossing the line.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 4:59:08 AM

SilverMark

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I don't necessarily disagree with you.....but, I think from legal stand point I might be correct...

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 5:01:59 AM

NuminousLeader

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I would have just told the police it was Tina Fey because I don't like 30 Rock

Other than that I have to agree with SB, had the news not covered this it would not be a big deal and no one would have cared. But when the press puts someone on national news and gives them their 15 minutes of fame, you can be sure others will follow.

The problem with it being labeled a hate crime, is not the act, but the vagueness of the law. Just about anything one person does to anyone (or culture) who is not like them can be labeled a hate crime.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 5:02:30 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

OP, I don't understand the point of this thread. Is it to prove that white men (or women) are being hasseled by "the man?" That they can't get a fair shake? That everythign is so weighted to benefit people of color at the expense of white people? If that is your point with this, then you live in a world that I do not recognize. Good luck with your ideas of victimization though, but I'll tell ya, one white person to another, playing the victim role here is not attractive.

I think you're right in your analysis; had I known Heretic was trolling again I wouldn't have bothered with an honest answer, since that's obviously not what he was after.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 5:05:45 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
Hanging anyone in effigy in this country should be illegal. We should view it as a threat and treat the person accordingly. I often use language in public that can be taken as a threat to people. If they charge me, I guess that I get to lose some money and do some community service. Just because I have the right to free speech doesn't mean that you don't have the right to charge me with a crime for crossing the line.

Absolutely: this free speech at all cost bollocks seems to be an excuse for abominable, unacceptable shit. Free speech shouldn't be a free ride for violent hateful discourse; it should be used responsibly and if not... there should be consequences.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 5:08:59 AM

corysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Distasteful, dis respectful and hateful....AS a public figure, although it would cause a huge stir, I think as a political statement alone you probably could hang Obama in effigy without it being against the law as you can Palin...They might ask you to take it down, and if it were to cause a riot or public disturbance they could then force you to take it down. I believe from a legal point of view(and I am no constitutional scholar) it isn't illegal as free speech goes.
If it wasn't such a serious time I would probably make a few tasteless jokes about Sarah Palin and some rope along with a much better list of uses....but, I will allow those who wish to, to fill in those blanks themselves.

As I understand the law, hanging an Obama dummy in a tree on your front lawn would be a crime as defined by law since it would deemed to be racial, and the law covers religion, ethnic and race, but not gender. So it's ok for a couple of idiots to hang Sarah in effigy, but if a con idiot hung Obama in the same manner it would be a crime...

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