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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:40:30 AM   
Sanity


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That's not all that they checked, puella.

And why are they going after him is the bottom line.


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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:42:35 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps because he keeps shoving his mug in front of the cameras and has now launched his own 'Joe the Plumber' tour to co-inside with MeCain's? 

He is basking in the attention, give me a break.


I should also say, that if someone used illegal means to get information, they should be prosecuted.  There simply is no need.  His licensing is public record.

< Message edited by puella -- 10/29/2008 7:45:03 AM >

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:44:16 AM   
VampiresLair


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Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		I guess my question, back to the OP, is whether or not this would have even been given a second thought had the hanged likeness not been that of Sarah Palin , and just a generic woman hanging for a Halloween display.
It might be hateful towards Palin and all, but it isnt a statement against all white people, or all women.
The WHO is the only reason this even got a second thought. And if the likeness was of Barack Obama, I doubt anyone would have paid attention to who it was and spent more time on what it was. Society's eye is skewed to find the offense in everything it seems. No matter what it is, someone goes out of their way to be offended by it.

DV


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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:49:27 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Who the fuck are these 'they', again? That fake plumber was put on display by the McCain campaign yesterday with all the pump and circumstance for his endorsement of McCain and he ended his little speech with this gem: "I'm voting for a real American." What a looser.

If he doesn't want attention, he's not going around it the right way.I think he's actually a plant, myself. And don't tell my paranoia is worse than yours .

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:53:04 AM   
RainydayNE


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nobody would've reported on it had it been a generic mannequin. all sorts of horrible things happen to dummies in haunted houses across the country every halloween =p *protests for their rights!*

we're in a time period where certain things are getting better and certain things aren't, and there are still "particular sensitivites" that are observed and i don't necessarily see what's wrong with that. like i wouldn't make any jokes about Native Americans and the whole "americanization" process and reservations, i wouldn't make any references to lynching, or to the holocaust, and i absolutely hate "white trash" jokes.
people are totally free to think whatever they want, but when you voice those thoughts in the public arena where EVERYONE can see/hear/be affected by them, then there are and should be consequences.
i don't see what's so wrong with that.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:53:17 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
And why are they going after him is the bottom line.


I'm watching Fox News (you have to know your enemy, unfortunately) and now I know where you got that talking point: the Fox cunts are screaming blue murder over poor old Samuel's treatment by 'the evil communist pinko commie loving liberal elite'.

Sad. Times Online


< Message edited by kittinSol -- 10/29/2008 7:57:13 AM >

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:53:43 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Oh jeese, here we go with the *political correctness* rearing it's evil head again!
It's fucking HALLOWEEN!
If you don't like Obama hang the SOB in effigy!
Who gives a shit?
Drag an Obama dummy behind a pick-up truck if you want.
It's not against the law to *offend* someone!
I don't understand all that ANAL-RETENTIVE bullshit.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:54:32 AM   
kittinSol


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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:55:56 AM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Who the fuck are these 'they', again? That fake plumber was put on display by the McCain campaign yesterday with all the pump and circumstance for his endorsement of McCain and he ended his little speech with this gem: "I'm voting for a real American." What a looser.

If he doesn't want attention, he's not going around it the right way.I think he's actually a plant, myself. And don't tell my paranoia is worse than yours .


haha yes!
he's originally from arizona after all =p

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 7:56:10 AM   
UncleNasty


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Status: offline 		I don't agree with "hate crimes." It attempts to make type/s of emotions illegal. Such is folly.

Uncle Nasty 

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RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 8:17:22 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Look at what they did to Joe The Plumber, he can't work now. Using government computers, they tracked him down and checked on every aspect of his life, and with what they found they ruined him - all for merely asking Obama a question. So, with the specter of Democrats seizing control of all branches of government, it may not be safe to utter a single word in defiance of the One.




par·a·noi·a  
(pār'ə-noi'ə)  Pronunciation Key 
n.  
  • A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.
  • Extreme, irrational distrust of others.


      If I were you I would stock up on ammo, canned goods, and bottled water and lock yourself up in the underground bunker for the next four years.

      You know, better safe than sorry!

      < Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/29/2008 8:18:50 AM >

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 8:19:03 AM   
      puella


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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: rulemylife

    1. If I were you I would stock up on ammo, canned goods, and bottled water and lock yourself up in the underground bunker for the next four years.

      You know, better safe than sorry!



      2. ....or at least the next 6 days.....

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      We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 8:28:47 AM   
      HunterS


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      Why are they going after him is the bottom line.
      quote:



      Perhaps "they" are going after him because he claims to be a:
      1.Plumber
      2.taxpayer
      3.aspiring business owner
      4.targeted for higher taxation because of his hard work and enterprise.
      What has been found out is that:
      1.He has no plumbing license therefore he cannot legally contract or perform plumbing services.
      2.His income tax returns seem not to correspond with his "on air" statements.
      3.If working under the table for cash and without a license is part of that definition then perhaps.
      4.What it appears that his idea of starting a business is to continue his current illegal business but only bigger.  Here is a man who is bootlegging his taxes by working without a license complaining about taxes he has no intention of paying.
      Hunter 

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 8:28:56 AM   
      rulemylife


      Posts: 14614
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Sanity

      How do you know he has no licence.

      Oh yeah, that's one of the things the Obama people used to destroy him... they checked on everything. His plumbing licence, his boss's contractor's licence, Joe's tax status, his child support status, and so on.

      Point is, puella, you shouldn't have that info on the guy. Not when his only crime was quizzing Barack Obama about his tax policies.




      Uh, we wouldn't have any information on him if McCain hadn't dragged him into the spotlight for political advantage.

      The most hilarious thing was McCain apologized publicly to "Joe" for doing so then proceeded to exploit him even more since his apology.

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 9:04:42 AM   
      giveeverything


      Posts: 348
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Sanity

      Look at what they did to Joe The Plumber, he can't work now. Using government computers, they tracked him down and checked on every aspect of his life, and with what they found they ruined him - all for merely asking Obama a question. So, with the specter of Democrats seizing control of all branches of government, it may not be safe to utter a single word in defiance of the One.

      Obama did this?  ooooooh  jesh.  Is there an eye roll emoticon?

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 9:16:14 AM   
      Darias


      Posts: 1757
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: giveeverything

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Sanity

      Look at what they did to Joe The Plumber, he can't work now. Using government computers, they tracked him down and checked on every aspect of his life, and with what they found they ruined him - all for merely asking Obama a question. So, with the specter of Democrats seizing control of all branches of government, it may not be safe to utter a single word in defiance of the One.

      Obama did this?  ooooooh  jesh.  Is there an eye roll emoticon?


      no  but theres an eye roll thread in  the P&ORS side Here

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 9:26:53 AM   
      kdsub


      Posts: 12180
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

      I don't agree with "hate crimes." It attempts to make type/s of emotions illegal. Such is folly.

      Uncle Nasty 


      Sometimes I feel the same way...but say I am black...Someone puts a cross in my yard and sets it afire...I'd be terrified beyond just a trespassing and destruction of property fine. I …and I think you would want more.

      Then again everything can be carried to the extremes.

      I'm using a black example here but I could be talking gay...Jewish...Muslim...Irish ...Italian...Indian...Catholic... on and on…there needs to be a law...But the application of these laws need people with common sense.

      Butch

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 10:07:42 AM   
      UncleNasty


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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: puella

      heheh, he has no licence!  I can snake out a drain too, it doesn't make me a legitmate plumber!


      legitimate, adj. 1. according to law; lawful.

      A license does not ensure or guarantee the safety, skills or character of one who has been licensed. License, as defined in dictionaries, is more indicative of "permission" than anything else.

      How many of you have been involved in an automobile accident in which the other operator was at fault? Were they licensed? Probably so. Did their being licensed provide you any safety or protection at that moment? Probably not. But by golly they had permission.

      When individuals who are licensed, who have asked permission to act in a specific way from an alleged constituted authority, act in ways that damage and/or injure others can the damaged and/or injured party seek redress and reparations from the alleged constituted authority?

      Try suing the state that issued the license of the at fault operator.

      Try suing the AMA when a licensed doctor causes you harm.

      Try suing a state BAR association when your licensed attorney incompetently looses your case.

      Given that the alleged constituted authority is in no way held accountable what is the purpose of being required to ask their permission?

      Is Joe the plumber licensed? I don't know, and don't really care. Does he have a history of doing good work and of having satisfied customers? This is a more important, reasonable and practical standard to measure his status of "plumber" by.

      I imagine some of you are thinking along the lines of "Well, you've got to do the due diligence and check these people out." Yes, that is always a good idea. But if that is that standard we use to measure by then it still begs the same question: What is the purpose of alleged constituted authorities, permission and licenses?

      Draw you own conclusions.

      Uncle Nasty

      PS Imagine having to ask permission of some governmental official, or regulatory agency, to be licensed as a Dominant, sumissive, slave or switch, and then be required to pay fees on an annual basis.








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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 10:35:21 AM   
      rulemylife


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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: UncleNasty


      Is Joe the plumber licensed? I don't know, and don't really care. Does he have a history of doing good work and of having satisfied customers? This is a more important, reasonable and practical standard to measure his status of "plumber" by.

      I imagine some of you are thinking along the lines of "Well, you've got to do the due diligence and check these people out." Yes, that is always a good idea. But if that is that standard we use to measure by then it still begs the same question: What is the purpose of alleged constituted authorities, permission and licenses?

      Draw you own conclusions.

      Uncle Nasty

      PS Imagine having to ask permission of some governmental official, or regulatory agency, to be licensed as a Dominant, sumissive, slave or switch, and then be required to pay fees on an annual basis.


      That's all well and good, but it is totally irrelevant.

      McCain and his staff seized an impromptu exchange between Obama and a small businessman voter  to highlight their point that Obama's tax policies would hurt small business.

      Unfortunately, McCain and his staff didn't bother to check the facts. 

      The small "businessman" wasn't, in fact, a businessman.  He was an unlicensed plumber's helper.  He does not own the business nor is he licensed to begin a business in that field.  He was worried that Obama would raise his taxes when his income came nowhere near the level that Obama's tax proposals would affect.  That is, of course, if he paid his taxes, since he already has tax liens filed against him.

      Now I don't know about you, but if I was doing unlicensed, "under the table" work I would have enough sense to not draw attention to myself.

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      RE: Is it a hate crime? - 10/29/2008 10:52:29 AM   
      philosophy


      Posts: 5284
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      .....i've posted this before, but can't recall if i ever got an answer, so here goes again.

      i do understand those who suggest that hate crimes could be prosecuted under existing legislation, rather than creating a new offence.........however, here's my point.

      Was the Holocaust more than just mass murder? If we feel that events like that can be prosecuted as simple murder, then there is no need for hate crime legislation. If there is something more to it, if genocide qualitively differs from murder, then there is such a thing as hate crimes.

      (in reply to rulemylife)
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