RE: Faith based drug stores....

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MissEnchanted -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 10:28:09 AM)
quote: mierda de toro quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp mierda de toro.....[:'(] Not really bullshit. Just the facts ma'am. I stated some things here fully related to the subject at hand and was surprised to see several people insult me for quoting a paragraph from the same article that was linked at the top by the OP and how this may start to affect us in big ways over the course of the next 30 years. This affects our economy, our culture, and many other things. As always, the things I write here in an open forum are imo. Back to pharmacies: If we need birth control for many things that help a patient with pain, etc how can they say 'no'?

kittinSol -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 10:38:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 And regardless, this is still America with equal rights for everyone. If they start forcing the pharmacies to go against THEIR morral beliefs, next they will be forcing me to go against mine. I'd rather it didn't go there. Perhaps you don't understand this with the visceral point of view of a woman, whose body and sexuality are constantly being used by others and against herself for spurious moral reasons and bogus political debate - what kind of bullshit morality would prevent any pharmacist from distributing any kind of legally prescribed drug? This isn't about freedom or 'equal rights'. This is about trying to backpedal into Antiquity.

CalifChick -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 10:48:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 On most of the perscriptions I get the doctor usually writes on the perscription what the drug is for. For instance, "Take one pill every four to six hours for headaches". That is usually only done when the pill is not taken every day. If the med is to be taken every day, it will just say "take one every day at bedtime." quote: If they start forcing the pharmacies to go against THEIR morral beliefs, next they will be forcing me to go against mine. I'd rather it didn't go there. That argument just doesn't hold water. What if you believe that MORALLY, everyone should be able to smoke in your store. But the state says "no smoking in public places". The state's law then trumps your moral belief. What if, as the director of a hospital, you feel that morally, gang members should not receive treatment for their injuries. Do you get to refuse them care? No, you don't. Prescriptions are a unique case and it is hard to find something similar to compare it to. The pharmacist is trying to insert themself into the relationship between the doctor and the patient, and deciding that because a drug MIGHT be used for something they disapprove of, they will not provide it. No one is requiring them to supply any over the counter item (such as condoms), which is a direct transaction between the consumer and the pharmacist. Cali

Lashra -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 10:55:38 AM)
My feeling is this, a pharmacist's job is to fill prescriptions written out by a doctor, s/he is not there to make moral judgments and pass them onto customers. If the pharmacist cannot do their job, then they need to seek other employment. "Faith" is big business in this country and it is growing, soon it will be out of control and we can say hello to the dark ages once more. ~Lashra

philosophy -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 10:59:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske Keep it up and next thing you know we will be France, proudly declaring that it is okay for a Catholic to wear a cruxifix, but a Moslem woman can not cover her hair, under penalty of law. ...inaccurate. You've been misinformed. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-split-by-proposal-to-ban-islamic-headscarves-and-crucifixes-in-schools-576042.html ...no single religion has been singled out or excluded, it applies to all religious symbols. Not saying i agree, you understand, but your facts are wrong..........

DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 1:09:10 PM)
This trend really started as a result of the morning after pill, and has spread backwards into birth control once the AMA and APHA came running to the rescue of the pharmacist objector back in 2005. They seem to be willing to make people drive to another pharmacy, or allow doctors offices to dispense as an alternative. http://www.pharmacist.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Search1&template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=8688 As for me, I say the pharmacist with a moral objection needs to find a new career, one that doesnt put them in such a jackpot. Their personal issues should not interfere with patient access. All pharmacists are licensed within their state, and are governed by state regs. I believe 45 out of 50 states allow the pharmacist to object. Washington State is one that recently went back and "clarified" their laws to say that pharmacists can not object, and by the reaction of the right leaning media far away from the PNW you woulda thought they were passing Roe v. Wade again. A list of states and their legislative stand. http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/ConscienceClauses.htm This is the product of the rural red state mindset, where the conservative majority accept birth control but are not too keen on the 'morning after' issue. Maybe letting the legislative frankenstein that they created extend its reach and start interfering with their traditional areas of birth control is precisely what is needed to cure the problem. This is the Cincinnati area pharmacist who was fired by K-Mart back in 1996 that started this whole movement. The bio shows many socio-economic similarities to the Palin household (she's the provider, he's the motorhead). http://www.rightgrrl.com/dec97grrl/ http://www.gargaro.com/kmart/papers.html

BitaTruble -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 1:22:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: puella I was reading this article and am still mulling over where I stand on the issue. I do think it is a very fine and precarious line when we start mixing faith into medicine.... Have a read: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081022/ap_on_re_us/no_contraceptives_pharmacy I don't think the line is so fine. A pharmacist should not come between a doctor and patient, but neither is he required to facilitate the doctor/patient relationship. On the subject of refusing to return a medical prescription, that would be coming between the doctor and the patient and shouldn't be allowed but the guy went to school, got his license, started his business and how he runs it is his concern. He can refuse to fill any prescription for any reason as long as he gives it back to the consumer. If he chooses to fill prescriptions, then he needs to do so according to whatever laws govern such things. If I don't like how that guy runs his business, I can go to school, get my license and fill the prescription myself. MMV

knees2you -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 3:09:15 PM)
*Some religions do not believe in Blood Transfusions.* *If someoes daughter or son dies because of their* *non Beliefs of the Transfusions,* *does that become Murder?[sm=danger.gif]* *Always, knees[sm=offtopic2.gif]*

Elisabella -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 3:48:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissEnchanted "If this emboldens other pharmacies in other parts of the state, it could really affect low-income and rural women in terms of access," said Tarina Keene, executive director of the Virginia chapter of the National Abortion Rights Action League. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fanatix! Gee, we can have 70% Mexican population in the US by 2030, isn't that great? More Welfare being sucked out of our overtaxed, dilapidated and bloated system, and they can have 'their' country back. But heh! They will be good Christians, making tons of babies, being loyal to their faith and making millions of Catholic babies to fill the church coffers. The church will rehire (in secret) lots of priests, so our children can be 'trained' in secret, and messed up for life. Fifteen year old girls getting pregnant, unable to support themselves and never going to college. Then they get a crappy job, so their children do not get to learn music, art, and they don't have enough money or time to get their kids into sports, gymnastic lessons, or eat healthy food. We'll be speaking Spanish, all the commercials and bill boards will be bilingual, so you won't be able to see the tiny print in Spanish that covers all those Viagra prescriptions that you can pick up 2 minutes away from your house. But heh! You're being a good Christian, so that's all that counts, right? Suuure......... Well there goes the premise that secularists are the open minded and tolerant ones... Seriously, as long as these pharmacies aren't getting government funding, it's a private business that can create their own rules. They aren't forcing their religion onto anyone - everyone who shops there is doing so willingly. I don't see why so many people feel the need to force THEIR religious (or in this case, anti-religious) beliefs onto others and try to force compliance with a non-Christian/Catholic morality. Put your money where your mouth is and leave it at that. For those of you saying that it will stop your 96 year old grandmother from getting her birth control, this IS the age of the internet. I'm sure if she doesn't have a computer to order her meds online there's a public library somewhere in the vicinity. Probably about the same distance as the pharmacy too.

thornhappy -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 3:52:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissEnchanted Exactly Lady E. I am aware of what is happening, am not a bigot, read the newspaper almost every day. I see who is committing up to 80% of the crime in Calif, and recently read of the population explosion happening in the Mexican Catholic communities all over the US. If you read and look at the stats, our system is being drained exponentially and is only going to get worse with millions of new babies who's families (many illegal) get free medical, free food, have 10 people living in one house because they only pay $300 of their welfare for rent on HUD, work for cash, hide that, and have boyfriends living with them (undeclared to HUD) who buy new hot cars, boats, motor homes, clothes, new stuff, etc. I have seen this with my own eyes. I know there is a huge organization based out of Mexico who's sole purpose is to 'take back the US'. It is funded with lotsa money, and one of the primary stated goals is to 'make plenty of babies and bear them in the US, so they are 'legal'. These are just facts and do not make me a bigot. Please tell us the organization that's funneling pregnant women over here. Where are you getting the crime facts, considering that the FBI doesn't even track crime committed by Hispanics? Because your facts defy common sense (they don't make up 80% of the prison population; are you implying that they don't serve any time?) and sound straight out of talk radio. quote: Also, this is an open forum, and my mind works quickly on a good day. I am able to take several different things and see how they relate to the world we live in. I have seen many things change in the past 30 years. It makes me sad when my college-educated friends who have worked here for 30 years unable to get a decent job joking about living out of their cars. It makes me sad to see other good friends lose half their savings due to greedy and unethical people. My mother-in-law at 65 has had to go back to work after working as a teacher for 25 years, raising four kids and taking care of my dad for five years when he was sick with Leukemia. So all of the Hispanics can compete with college educated whites? When you're implying that they're illegal? And how are people losing half their savings? Through stock market crashes by chance? thornhappy

thetammyjo -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 4:05:24 PM)
If I am recalling correctly didn't Jesus suggest we go into our closets to pray rather than parade our faith around like the hypocrites?

puella -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 4:13:06 PM)
You either do not read well, or you do not retain well... either way you patchwork your way into things. Strange post.

puella -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 4:15:56 PM)
Yes, I do believe he did, or at least the guy (perhaps guys) who wrote about him about a hundred of years after he died said he did.

tweedydaddy -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/29/2008 5:24:46 PM)
I tried Damiana herb. The dose was three tablets a day, with food. I have a cavalier attitutude to medicines and took three at once, before going to bed. You can keep viagra, the effect of that was numbing and unpleasant, I tried it for a change and the effect was altogether unpleasant. Damiana on the other hand left me with a gear shift in my trousers that was very sensitive, and apart from the hallucination that lots of tiny Betty Pages were dancing around on top of my computer and that my wife kept changing into Wifey from Wifey's world and Vanessa Paradis by turns, it was an excellent experience. I think that a woman should have the common courtesy to remain the same person throughout making love, it's very distracting when she keeps morphing like that. I'm not quite sure who I was, but won't take three at once on an empty stomach again. I was actually taking the stuff to help lose weight. Put simply it was like viagra, only the hallucinations meant that not only did I have something amazing going on in my trousers, I was completely randomised as to who I was going to share it with. Good job I wasn't thinking about Long John Silver. My wife has made me agree to stick to it on high days and holidays. Good job too, I'd never get anything done.

MissEnchanted -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/30/2008 7:06:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy I tried Damiana herb. The dose was three tablets a day, with food. I have a cavalier attitutude to medicines and took three at once, before going to bed. You can keep viagra, the effect of that was numbing and unpleasant, I tried it for a change and the effect was altogether unpleasant. Damiana on the other hand left me with a gear shift in my trousers that was very sensitive, and apart from the hallucination that lots of tiny Betty Pages were dancing around on top of my computer and that my wife kept changing into Wifey from Wifey's world and Vanessa Paradis by turns, it was an excellent experience. I think that a woman should have the common courtesy to remain the same person throughout making love, it's very distracting when she keeps morphing like that. I'm not quite sure who I was, but won't take three at once on an empty stomach again. I was actually taking the stuff to help lose weight. Put simply it was like viagra, only the hallucinations meant that not only did I have something amazing going on in my trousers, I was completely randomised as to who I was going to share it with. Good job I wasn't thinking about Long John Silver. My wife has made me agree to stick to it on high days and holidays. Good job too, I'd never get anything done. TW, Thank you so much, that was SO funny! [:D]

NuevaVida -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/30/2008 7:25:47 AM)
I only skimmed the first couple of pages because I'm short on time, so my apologies if this has already been said. I'm speaking as a non-christian person here and I'm supportive of the practice of faith-based businesses. And that's what a pharmacy is - a business. My first question is, for those who live in rural areas, are mail ordered drugs not an option? And, in case people don't know it, there are pharmacies all over the country that don't dole out drugs people need. Anyone ever need compound drugs? That's where you don't get a set "standard" dose of something, but a dose suitable for your particular body and needs. I live in a fairly metropolitan area (Sacramento) and when I needed a compound drug I had a choice of TWO places to go - one is an hour away, the other is 40 minutes away. My second thought is, OK, so let's do away with the faith based pharmacy. Then there would be NO pharmacy. Would that be better? My third thought is, there are faith based doctors. Should we do away with them, too? What our constitution states is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. What happens when other faiths can not dispense the alternative drugs that people need/prefer? Do we really want our government deciding these things? I know I don't. My last thought (for now, heh) is on what principles does a faith-based pharmacy operate? Since most drugs are formulated and tested using less than christian methods (vivisection, etc.), the pharmacies risk stepping over that ever moving line of hypocrisy. But like anything, that is their choice. Do I believe women should be able to get birth control and men viagra? Yes, I do. But those drugs are available through mail order, so they are available, perhaps just not the way everyone prefers to get their drugs. I really doubt this country is at risk of faith based pharmacies taking over the industry and doing away with these drugs altogether. Just my two pennies...

MissEnchanted -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/30/2008 9:25:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: MissEnchanted Exactly Lady E. I am aware of what is happening, am not a bigot, read the newspaper almost every day. I see who is committing up to 80% of the crime in Calif, and recently read of the population explosion happening in the Mexican Catholic communities all over the US. If you read and look at the stats, our system is being drained exponentially and is only going to get worse with millions of new babies who's families (many illegal) get free medical, free food, have 10 people living in one house because they only pay $300 of their welfare for rent on HUD, work for cash, hide that, and have boyfriends living with them (undeclared to HUD) who buy new hot cars, boats, motor homes, clothes, new stuff, etc. I have seen this with my own eyes. I know there is a huge organization based out of Mexico who's sole purpose is to 'take back the US'. It is funded with lotsa money, and one of the primary stated goals is to 'make plenty of babies and bear them in the US, so they are 'legal'. These are just facts and do not make me a bigot. Please tell us the organization that's funneling pregnant women over here. I never said 'funneling' http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_070806.htm Where are you getting the crime facts, considering that the FBI doesn't even track crime committed by Hispanics? Because your facts defy common sense (they don't make up 80% of the prison population; are you implying that they don't serve any time?) and sound straight out of talk radio. Crime facts: I read the paper and see the stats there. I watch the news and listen to the names mentioned. I have several friends who have worked in Soc Services for at least 15 years, and a friend who is a local atty as well as 'very' close connection who is a prosecuting atty in another state. I talk to gang members about their life, and their connection to 'take back the US' organizations. I also have a connection that I cannot discuss in any open forum who deals with prisoners, criminals, and stats on a daily basis and has for over 25 years. He deals with identity fraud : http://www.estatevaults.com/bol/archives/2008/05/18/identity_theft.html as one part of his job. For many of the crimes illegals commit, there is no jail time, or it is super short, or they are deported, or they are juvenile gang members, or they are never found. See: http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-02-830T This is an older site, but if you read the first few paragraphs of page six you'll get a hint. I don't listen to talk radio, thanks, but if I did, I would listen to both educated viewpoints because I care about what is going on in the US and the world. Having a balanced, educated viewpoint is paramount to me. quote: Also, this is an open forum, and my mind works quickly on a good day. I am able to take several different things and see how they relate to the world we live in. I have seen many things change in the past 30 years. It makes me sad when my college-educated friends who have worked here for 30 years unable to get a decent job joking about living out of their cars. It makes me sad to see other good friends lose half their savings due to greedy and unethical people. My mother-in-law at 65 has had to go back to work after working as a teacher for 25 years, raising four kids and taking care of my dad for five years when he was sick with Leukemia. So all of the Hispanics can compete with college educated whites? *What?* When you're implying that they're illegal? And how are people losing half their savings? Through stock market crashes by chance? What? I was sharing about what I have been dealing with personally with close friends and family due to many things not mentioned, the US economy-affected in part by illegal aliens abusing the system, the stock market, 401s, bad loans, etc. thornhappy ME ps: This is a subject for another forum, and I will join you there if you start it. I do not want our conversation to hijack this thread! Pharmacies: I think this is one of the factors that is showing evidence of our country falling far from the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and want to see people open their eyes, even though it is painful to do that. Pharmasist's Code: http://www.rphlink.com/therphcode.html First thing listed: '*A Pharmacist should hold the health and safety of patients to be of first consideration; he should render to each patient the full measure of his ability as an essential health practitioner.' 'Health and safety as first consideration! So, refusing to sell birth control when it has other healing or pain reducing attributes by prescription is violating the code, n'est pas?

sirsholly -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/30/2008 9:49:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida My first question is, for those who live in rural areas, are mail ordered drugs not an option? Generally not. When i have a script that needs filled i usually need it NOW. Sending a script for an antibiotic when i have a bladder infection is not an option. Us rural folk drive...to the doctors office...pharmacy...adult toy store...[:)] quote: And, in case people don't know it, there are pharmacies all over the country that don't dole out drugs people need. Anyone ever need compound drugs? That's where you don't get a set "standard" dose of something, but a dose suitable for your particular body and needs. I live in a fairly metropolitan area (Sacramento) and when I needed a compound drug I had a choice of TWO places to go - one is an hour away, the other is 40 minutes away. This is different. You are talking about availability vs a moral judgement. quote: My second thought is, OK, so let's do away with the faith based pharmacy. Then there would be NO pharmacy. Would that be better? no pharmacy? There are pharmacists out there that do not subject their moral beliefs on others. quote: My third thought is, there are faith based doctors. Should we do away with them, too? What our constitution states is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. we all have freedom of religion, and does this not include freedom from prejudice because of our chosen religion? How would you feel if a doctor refused to treat you because of you religious beliefs, or his? quote: What happens when other faiths can not dispense the alternative drugs that people need/prefer? Do we really want our government deciding these things? I know I don't. Here is a hard line stance...if the pharmacist is going to demonstrate prejudice because of his/her religion then he/she needs to find a new line of work. quote: I really doubt this country is at risk of faith based pharmacies taking over the industry and doing away with these drugs altogether. i agree. But you have to remember this issue can and might just set a precedent. Where will it end? Will we have to hide our religious/moral beliefs to recieve needed health care from doctors and pharmacists who feel they have the right to judge?

DedicatedDom40 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/30/2008 10:18:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 And regardless, this is still America with equal rights for everyone. If they start forcing the pharmacies to go against THEIR morral beliefs, next they will be forcing me to go against mine. I'd rather it didn't go there. There are religions that do not allow women to vote or hold power, yet if they reside in this country, we do force rules against their moral beliefs. Happens every day. What makes the A-bomb so different and worthy of "not going down that road"? Pharmacies and pharmacists are licensed. Tweak the licensing, and they wont have a choice on whether to apply their morals to their business. Legislatively, we are allowing the right to objection in the shadow of a Roe v Wade concession for doctors, to protect those who declined to perform abortions. Pharmacies and pharmacists are riding the coattails of that doctor protection rule. Funny, tho, how all other at-will employment situations dont have these morals-based safeguards against termination of employment. To me, thats where the AMA is making the mistake and opening the door of unintended consequences, in their treating of pharmcists like doctors worthy of the same protections, instead of classifying them as the 'Joe the Plumbers' of the medical world that they are.

camille65 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/30/2008 10:22:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I only skimmed the first couple of pages because I'm short on time, so my apologies if this has already been said. I'm speaking as a non-christian person here and I'm supportive of the practice of faith-based businesses. And that's what a pharmacy is - a business. My first question is, for those who live in rural areas, are mail ordered drugs not an option? I spend over one thousand dollars a month for medication. None are available through the mail, before I moved I was in a rural area with very limited choices in pharmacies for the first six years. It made me feel really crappy to get snarky comments from the man filling my prescriptions. 'Oh are you a junkie?' that was just one comment from him because I take rather heavy duty pain medication. I can't imagine the crap he would have said if I were taking something for Herpes or AIDS. Damn right it upsets me to be judged by the medication I have to take. I ended up driving 48 miles one way to a different pharmacy just before moving.

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