RE: Faith based drug stores....

RE: Faith based drug stores.... (Full Version)

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celticlord2112 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 6:55:56 AM)
quote: So a doctor that has his own practice is a businessman and therefore also has the right to make moral judgements and refuse to treat a patient? Yes.

sirsholly -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 7:17:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: So a doctor that has his own practice is a businessman and therefore also has the right to make moral judgements and refuse to treat a patient? Yes. You feel, as an example, that a doctor can flatly refuse to treat all homosexuals due to his/her own prejudices, installed secondary to religious beliefs or otherwise? My guess is his/her ass would be reported to the medical licensing board. When you are in the medical profession, pharmacists included, you need to rise above your own personal prejudices.

NuevaVida -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 7:22:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGIONAL: NuevaVida Why can't we have faith based businesses? Nueva, you have excellent points and i will never argue that faith based businesses have every right to be in business. If a pharmacist with his own business wants to be selective about what he/she stocks on their shelves, more power to them. However, one of the jobs of a pharmacist is to dispense the medications prescribed to the patient by their doctor. It is not their job to decide the morality of the drug or whether or not the patient should have it. Hi again, holly, thanks for the reply. I'm not actually an advocate for faith based pharmacies, I'm really just trying to examine the other side of your argument. I don't know the code of conduct that pharmacists swear into when they begin their profession or what their industry protocols (if any) are. But because I'm an OCD dork, I'm going to look into it this weekend!! Stay tuned...

candystripper -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 7:30:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper puella, I certainly do not mean to disrespect your faith, but what business does my pharamcist have telling me I cannot have medication which my MD has scripted for me? Isn't it the obligation of the supporting medical staff to follow the doctor's orders? Naturally it's the Catholics again. Good grief, will they never give up? I do not understand this hatred for the sexally active or desire to see unwanted children born. I wish they'd mind their own store....maybe do a bit more investigating of priests and nuns who abused UMs and leave the community alone when it's not a matter of faith. I should not have to have someone else's faith impinge on my private life. Period. The Catholics do not seem willing to accept this... WHOA...a bit rough on one certain religion here, aren't you? There are many organized religions out there that have issues with many different medications. Catholics/birth control are just one of many. And please keep in mind..it is the individual (ie the pharmacist) that is in question here. Many pharmacists of the catholic faith are out there doing their job with no prejudice displayed to any faith or nationality. Well, being Catholic (so to speak) and having Catholic nutters in the family, I'm more aware of the activities of the Catholic Church than I am of other religions, and yes, you're correct, the entirety of the Religious Right cannot be placed at the Church's doorstep....HOWEVER, they customarially make a nuisance of themselves both here and around the world...and the 'officious intermeddler' thingy is a past pattern so well-entrenched it'd be very difficult to reasonably argue it is new or accidential. I also find objectionable the Church's continuous focus on our sex lives. We are supposed to be in opposition of the death penalty on the exact same religious grounds as the opposition we are exepcted to take towards reproductive rights, but you scarely ever hear about the Church marshalling itself to actually do a damned thing to end the death penalty. As for the individual pharmacist/corporation...sirsholly, I'm not aware of any individually owned and operated pharmacies in the area. I believe they've pretty much gone the way of the buggy whip. No, the decisions on what to stock and what to dispense will largely be made by corporations concerned with public image and so forth and doubtless, many will take the cowardly way out and not stock the controversial drugs. I haven't read the entire thread...but what other drugs are controversial? I mean, apart from maybe medicinal marijuana, I just cannot think what they could be. candystripper [sm=pole.gif]

candystripper -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 7:42:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: puella Hi candystripper, no offense taken and I am no longer a practicing Catholic (or obviously, a nun!), but I do believe it would effect more than just Catholics, or even christians... think Scientology and anti-depressants... I actually am kinda with you on this point. I really see it as someone coming between the direct orders of a physician and a patient (something, BTW that the press and law enforcement are not allowed to do to look into records). It is not a matter of what you are choosing to sell in your store, IMHO. If you choose to install a pharmacy which will, by very nature, fill prescriptions, you must do so without using religion to pick and choose which prescriptions doctors are allowed to give to patients.... not filling some because of religion is making a choice as to which prescriptions are moral and which are not (again, in my opinion). If they don't want to sell lube and condoms... that is something entirely different. I already have huge issues with medical schools that have stopped teaching abortion techniques and MDs who won't perform them...HOWEVER...I see the pharmacy issue as different. One does not 'accidentially' gain a license to dispense medications...one studies hard and passes an exam and thereafter doubtless is taken to task to maintain that license. They always knew they'd be called upon to fill the scripts of MDs and anyone else with script authority...just as nurses fulfill the MDs orders in a hospital setting...they KNEW they would not be autonomous in that respect. They also knew they'd be be called upon to dispense whatever is legally permissible to prescribe....and unless they suspect they have a Dr. Feelgood on their hands, I think they should fulfill the obligations which are an adjunct to the priviledge they have...a monoply on the right to dispense drugs for profit. And I wonder about this: when I accidentally wander into the 'faith based pharmacy' for my morning after pill and they refuse to fill the script, will I be subjected to proletising? Will my privacy be protected as I am refused the medication? How exactlty is that to be accomplished? Am I going to be speaking to the pharmacist in some sort of superman phone booth? candystripper [sm=pole.gif]

sirsholly -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 7:49:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper As for the individual pharmacist/corporation...sirsholly, I'm not aware of any individually owned and operated pharmacies in the area. I believe they've pretty much gone the way of the buggy whip. No, the decisions on what to stock and what to dispense will largely be made by corporations concerned with public image and so forth and doubtless, many will take the cowardly way out and not stock the controversial drugs. Private pharmacies do exist here still. When my late husband had his transplant we had to abandon the "Mom/Pop" pharmacy we used due to the high cost of his medications (one antibiotic was over 2,000.00). The pharmacist explained that medications had to be ordered in bulk and the meds needed were so rarely used it would result in a huge $$ loss for the pharmacy. While i totally understood, it was hard to leave the personal service and concern from them. This...so sadly...is the reason Walmart, CVS, etc are now the only real choices.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 8:06:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly You feel, as an example, that a doctor can flatly refuse to treat all homosexuals due to his/her own prejudices, installed secondary to religious beliefs or otherwise? A doctor running his own practice should have the right to see and treat whichever patients he wishes. quote: When you are in the medical profession, pharmacists included, you need to rise above your own personal prejudices. People never rise above their prejudices. Not only is it not human nature, I am not certain such a thing is even possible.

kittinSol -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 8:16:36 AM)
I don't know about pharmacists, but as for quacks go, I refer you (again!) to the Hippocratic Oath - what you wrote is in complete contradiction with the philosophy of medicine. It's not a pick and choose business - I"m so thankful that you're not a doctor. Oh... and a dogmatic style doesn't make an erroneous statement correct.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 8:26:14 AM)
quote: It's not a pick and choose business Every business is pick and choose--it's a principal reason some business fail while others succeed; some business owners make better choices than others. As we are discussing business, the philosophy of medicine is not germane to the topic at hand.

candystripper -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 8:46:20 AM)
The 'philosophy of medicine' is pertinent, CelticLord. A pharmacist is a person who sought and obtained a license which admits him to the monopoly of BUSINESSES which are entitled to profit from the dispensing of drugs the law requires cannot legally be possessed without a Rx script. As such, they are akin to HMOs and hospitals...they cannot refuse care on silly grounds any more than they can refuse care on racist or fraudulent grounds. And yes, a pharmacist is in the chain of health care delivery; in fact often he is a crucial delivery point, as a part of his responsibility is to caution patients against drug interactions which their MDs may not have caught. The mere fact that a person derives income from a business which engages in a profession does not alleviate that person from the ethical responsibilities of that profession. How could it? If you want to conduct a completely amoral business, I guess you need to join a faith-based mob, lol. candystripper [sm=pole.gif]

celticlord2112 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 8:54:14 AM)
quote: The 'philosophy of medicine' is pertinent, CelticLord. A pharmacist is a person who sought and obtained a license which admits him to the monopoly of BUSINESSES which are entitled to profit from the dispensing of drugs the law requires cannot legally be possessed without a Rx script. Pharmacies are not monopolies. They are competitive businesses just like any other. Consequently, no, the philosophy of medicine is not relevant to this topic.

sirsholly -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 10:09:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: It's not a pick and choose business Every business is pick and choose--it's a principal reason some business fail while others succeed; some business owners make better choices than others. A hospital is a business.. they are not permitted to pick and choose whom they treat..thank heavens. A pharmacist's job...what he went to school and is licensed to do...is to fill the requirements of the patient by order of the doctor.

sirsholly -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 10:10:46 AM)
quote: ORIGIONAL: CelticLord Pharmacies are not monopolies. They are competitive businesses just like any other. Consequently, no, the philosophy of medicine is not relevant to this topic. take medicine out of a pharmacy and you have nothing left.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 10:15:17 AM)
quote: A hospital is a business.. they are not permitted to pick and choose whom they treat..thank heavens. Ummm....yes they are....and yes they do. Folks get turned away from hospitals for lack of insurance all the time.

sirsholly -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 10:16:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: A hospital is a business.. they are not permitted to pick and choose whom they treat..thank heavens. Ummm....yes they are....and yes they do. Folks get turned away from hospitals for lack of insurance all the time. You are correct. I was thinking of the ER and should have said so. Apologies. ETA...In a situation where a patient needs care the hospital can transfer to another hospital but they cannot dismiss the patient unless there is a doctors discharge.

candystripper -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 11:21:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: The 'philosophy of medicine' is pertinent, CelticLord. A pharmacist is a person who sought and obtained a license which admits him to the monopoly of BUSINESSES which are entitled to profit from the dispensing of drugs the law requires cannot legally be possessed without a Rx script. Pharmacies are not monopolies. They are competitive businesses just like any other. Consequently, no, the philosophy of medicine is not relevant to this topic. You don't quite take my point, CelticLord. If I want to be a handyman, I can take an ad out in the paper and charge whatever the traffic will bear. However, if I want to act as a general contractor, in Ohio, I need to pass an exam and adhere to certain standards. Only a licensed general contractor can hold himself out as such; to do so without the license is fraud. The same is true, but to a much greater degree, of pharmacists. A chain of drug stores cannot operate without employing humans who hold licenses as pharamcists...they cannot hire just anyone to fill those positions. The law does not permit it. Ergo, only licensed pharmacists can perform those duties, and as with other professions, a monopoly on gaining income from doing so is thereby created for the humans holding those licenses. I'd certainly love to be a real estate appraiser right now...but I don't hold the proper license. So I cannot give those guys any competition for the apprasial business. When taken together with the fact that pharmacists affect the health of their customers, I'd say they have an obligation to perform as they were intended to when their licenses were awarded. candystripper [sm=pole.gif]

candystripper -> RE: Faith based drug stores.... (10/31/2008 11:24:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: A hospital is a business.. they are not permitted to pick and choose whom they treat..thank heavens. Ummm....yes they are....and yes they do. Folks get turned away from hospitals for lack of insurance all the time. This is not entirely true CelticLord. A hospital generally cannot refuse medical care to someone when life or limb is at stake. "Streeting' the uninsured is a delicate matter for hospitals and they necessarially keep one eye on their lawyer when they do it. candystripper [sm=pole.gif]

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