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RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 6:22:21 PM

seeksfemslave

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When I read your post I thought your description of an adverbial clause was incorrect.
I did a Google and found explicit support for your example.
.
Usage of an adverb
I went happily (adv) to the store
I went, feeling in a happy mood,(adv. clause) to the store

I still feel that a subordinate clause introduced by "because" is not an adverbial clause.

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 21

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 7:05:53 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Have you ever asked yourself why it bothers you so bad?

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Post #: 22

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 7:09:17 PM

susie

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Joined: 11/21/2004
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I think you missed a couple Lookie (my corrections in blue)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

LookieNookie; (semi colon, not colon) thanks :). (You're welcome).

Although in my defense, the listed items were, (comma not required after "were"...part of previous structure) in fact, part of a list.

Than = refers to choices - I would rather be flogged than get a root canal.

I'll happily admit I'm wrong on this - right after I look it up in the grammar book I "liberated" from my high school ;) <--- period.

I just get a little cheesed when I read "I would rather be flogged then get a root canal." Unless, of course, the author meant he/she wanted to be flogged BEFORE getting the root canal (which would require a comma after "then"). That would be different :D

I'm also not terribly impressed by people who somehow take pride in their lack of education. FTD excepted. Kind of like proclaiming "I don't read" or "I don't watch TV".

Here in the US (a period is required after the "U" and "S", unless of course you meant to suggest a "we" reference, overcapitalized of course), people who went to private schools (typically Catholic schools) tend to look down on those of us who went to public schools. Some of the dumbest people I've ever met went to Catholic schools and were "taught" but (should be by) nuns. Of course I know some pretty dumb public school kids, too. Whatcha gonna do...

Oh, and I survived the English Lit class despite having Pamela's ass-length hair to play with in front of me and Chrissie's cute little feet in my lap. Those were the days... :)

FTD: Just out of curiosity: has your lack of education hampered you in terms of working? While I managed to graduate HS in the allotted 4 years, I never got any sort of college degree. And I KNOW that's screwed me out of a lot of good jobs. My brother dropped out of HS and had a real tough time of it. He joined the Army for a couple of years and then found that still wasn't enough to get most of the jobs he applied for. Once he got his GED that changed dramatically.

BTW: I tend to drop a lot of e's and t's if I'm not paying close attention. My way-cool backlit keyboard is started (should either say, has started to due or is starting) to die :(

Lookie: I don't think I can explain who/whom. I can usually get it right and/or tell when it's wrong. But I would have to look it up to explain it. Can you take that one?

I actually know everything.

Thanks again, (You're welcome).

~Dave

T'weren't nothing wrong with your premise...just something about glass houses came to mind when I read it.

Of course this subject has been covered many times and it still amazes me how many of those starting ops like these fail to ensure that their spelling and grammar are spotless before posting.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 23

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 7:24:48 PM

SavageFaerie

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I can spell just fine in mah head. Its the translation from my brain to my fingers. My fingers prefer to space before the last letter, or do the dysletic thing, or better yet form a work word..see?) that has nothing to do with what was intended, for those I could not spell check because the switched words are properly spelled.

I dont have spell check, the one cm offers to let you d/l doesnt seem to like vista.

And in all honesty, it doesnt break my heart that it pisses some people off.
If they cant read it...skip the damn thing.

I get enough shit from my sister here in nyc, thinking Im going to change my damn Texas accent and pronounce things the yankee way.....and that isnt happening either.

If I cant ('see'..another one my hand changed) something obvious after I post, I do attempt to correct......that is if I can be bothered.

Frankly if people thing Im a totally idiot because my brain flickers different....ta hell with em. It bothers me not.

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Post #: 24

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 8:41:40 PM

candystripper

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I don't think it's entirely fair to say the Op has a bug up his butt about grammar...which would sort of be like fiddling while Rome burns, lol....there does come a point where a mutual agreement on how to express an idea breaks down to the degree that what is written just does not translate for the reader. At that point, the writer might like to reconsider how he's posting.

But as I said, it's a conversational message board and there have been very few times I really couldn't get what someone was on about...and I think that's pretty much true of all of us. Even the major language barriers between the GB'ers and the Aussies and ourselves, etc., seem to be overcome and we do manage to stumble along.

Not to hijack the thread, but remember when I took all that crap for using slashy speech? I always thought it was utter nonsense because any reasonably intelligent person can read what is written in slashy speech....many just find it objectionable and are somewhat pig-headed about it. A case of 'my way is the one twue way' IMO, but nonetheless, the constant grumbling was a distraction and so I stopped.

Frankly if the Op, or anyone, prizes well-written Op Ed pieces, this is not generally the best place to look for them....but it is a vastly interesting place to gain insight and acquire knowledge and have one's assumptions challenged, etc.

candystripper

(in reply to SavageFaerie)

Post #: 25

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 8:51:47 PM

Daddysredhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Have you ever asked yourself why it bothers you so badly?

Badly rather than bad -----> Badly is an adverb. Adverbs modify nouns, verbs, and other adverbs. They tell "to what extent" something is being done.

*giggles* You're welcome, Orion. *bats eyelashes*

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Post #: 26

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 9:26:55 PM

ThatDaveGuy69

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Thank you Susie :)
I know, glass houses...
I was going with the most common mistakes, not all the subtle stuff.

CS made the point that using the wrong word can change the meaning of what is being said. That's really where I was going with this.

But one thing that really bugs me is news readers using words like "hurt" instead of "injured". It really dumbs things down. "The pedestrian was hurt when the car hit him" should be "The pedestrian was injured..." You get hurt when your girlfriend breaks up with you - you get injured when struck by a car. There are a couple of other 4th-grade words I hear on the news way too often but my brain is tired.

~Dave

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Post #: 27

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 9:49:20 PM

OneMoreWaste

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69
Simple rule: take the other person out of the sentance: too many people would say "Shelia and me went..." or "Me and Shelia went..." Take "Shelia" out and you wind up with "Me went..." Very obviously incorrect.

Very obviously a sentence fragment

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Post #: 28

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 10:07:25 PM

Roselaure

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I have many pet peeves of grammar, but in this political season this one seems appropriate.

"Democrat" is a noun. Barack is a Democrat.
"Democratic" is an adjective. Barack is a member of the Democratic party.

"Republican" is both a noun and an adjective. John is a Republican. John is a member of the Republican party.

It is not the Democrat party. Grrrrrr

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Post #: 29

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 10:18:49 PM

Termyn8or

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I find it interesting to see how everyone seemed to instictively follow this thread here.

T

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Post #: 30

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 10:19:36 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

If someone has bad spelling / grammar it is a turn off and I am not going to correct them. Sometimes people make mistakes, yet chronic errors make the person merely on the verge of illiterate IMO.

If someone cannot self-improve or does not even have the most of the free education system around them then that is not my problem.

Leave the Helen Keller nonsense to the professionals and for those that choose to get help for their literacy problems as adults-God less em.

Too much work for a kink/dating site to dwell on other's errors. Block the person if it bothers you so much or offer to teach them the proper way. If you are not qualified or have the time and patience for that, drop the subject alltogether. It is moot around here.

(in reply to Roselaure)

Post #: 31

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 11:29:40 PM

moonvine

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Joined: 11/7/2004
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quote:

And I doubt 10% of the population correctly distinguishes between "discreet" and "discrete."

I can. My favorite are "discrete dominates". Of course, there could be some wonderful person I am ignoring who can't distinguish between the two, but I just can't take it. Hard limit! Why is it such a bad thing to speak and write your own language at least semi correctly?

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 32

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 11:31:42 PM

moonvine

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I can read what is written in slashy speech, but generally choose not to. It gives me a headache.

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Post #: 33

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 10/31/2008 11:53:42 PM

ThatDaveGuy69

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Ah hah! It's not just me! :D

Someone asked why this (using the wrong word: your vs. you're) bothers me. I guess it's because I make an effort. I wish I were adept enough to get the word, the spelling, and the grammar correct every time. I don't really care all that much about the colons and the semi-colons and the ellipses. But when some writes "your absolutely correct", some little trigger goes off in my head and says "your WHAT is absolutely correct?" because that is how the meaning works out. Maybe I shouldn't have paid so much attention in school.

--> Maybe your right and their are more better things to worry about. <--

BTW: I lost track - who said they went to a Catholic school and envied those of us in public school? Why would that be?

Damn! How did it get to be 2am already?!

~Dave

_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to moonvine)

Post #: 34

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 11/1/2008 12:21:37 AM

GreedyTop

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From: Savannah, GA
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I know that I am guilty of a crime that bothers a number of posters here.. I tend to drop punctuation (except when the lack of an apostrophe, for instance, will alter the meaning of a word).

I know I also tend to do "..." quite a bit.. but thats a function of my train of thought typing...

(see, I've done it again!)

eta: yeah, and I transpose letters a lot....

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 11/1/2008 12:22:27 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 11/1/2008 12:44:44 AM

stella41b

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If this were a message board in Polish - a language which has 96 different verbs which mean 'to shit' and eight grammatical cases - I wonder how we would fare as Poles on this message board?

This thread is about grammar but does this mean that the OP means that cognitive grammar should take precedence over other forms such as descriptive or generative grammar, or even lexical functional grammar or head driven phrase structure grammar?

And what about usage? From what I can see most of the errors cited on the thread are errors of word usage and not grammatical errors.

For example 'there' and 'their' is a basic error of word usage stemming from confusion over a couple of homophones. You could argue that the same is true with 'dependent' and 'dependant'.

Then you have the differences between British and American English, for example the use of the Present Perfect, rules on possession 'have' and 'have got', the use of the verb 'get' not to mention differences over how phrasal verbs are used.

Assuming you have to be somewhere early in the morning, how many of you Americans would appreciate being knocked up early in the morning? Just as an example... (yes, this IS a sentence fragment).

I guess for me this brings back memories of marking and grading papers as a lecturer in Practical English running courses in academic English in a Polish university working with American colleagues. The worst was when we did the calibration meetings for exam papers and we would have lengthy and fairly heated debates over transitional sentences which were based on the Present Perfect Progressive.

I mean where do we go from here? Maybe we should turn up to munches and start speaking Received Pronunciation or the standard Mid-Western accent so as not to offend the purists?

English is a living language which is constantly changing and expanding, and is one of the foremost languages of the world when it comes to communication and expression due to its flexibility.

And on these message boards, which to me are informal, on a website where freedom of expression is encouraged, as long as someone communicates something in whatever they post I am happy.

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Post #: 36

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 11/1/2008 2:15:24 AM

candystripper

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Well, no, I don't think we need the grammar police just yet. (Would love to see a list of the 96 Polish verbs for 'to shit', btw!).

I have to admit I do sometimes get annoyed listening to the court television shows. People...seems especially younger ones...don't just break the rules, they depart from them altogether. There is no word such as 'boughten'. I bought, I purchased, it was purchased for me.. but please Gawd, not 'I had it boughten for me by my boyfriend.'

And what happened to the verb 'loan'? Both parties do not 'borrow the money'. I cringe everytime someone says 'I borrowed it to him last March'. Grrrrr.

But then court television really isn't that far above the Jerry Springer show sometime, so maybe it's deliberate on the part of the shows' producers....people who can speak well are turned away as not 'making good television'.

candystripper

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Post #: 37

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 11/1/2008 2:38:34 AM

moonvine

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Well, my first question is why in the heck does a language need 96 verbs that mean "to shit?" That's really got me curious.

Most of the people here would probably fare horribly; as we have a high concentration of Americans on this board from what I can tell, and most Americans only speak one language. So if you do only speak one language it would seem you would want to speak it with some degree of aptitude.

I'm mostly thinking about the profiles here and what I want to see in a profile anyway, so if I see a nick like "DiscreteDominate010101" or whatever, I'm not going to click on it.

If I was on a Polish message board and chose a nick for myself that conveyed something I wasn't trying to convey, I'd hope someone would tell me. Of course I'd have to know at least some Polish for that to happen and I only know English and Spanish. If I were on a Spanish dating site I'd hope they would give me more leeway than if I were on an English dating site, but I'd also work twice as hard on my profile so it said what I wanted it to say.

Sorry, just bored tonight.

< Message edited by moonvine -- 11/1/2008 2:39:06 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 11/1/2008 3:12:40 AM

ThatDaveGuy69

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CS,
It's official: I loves ya! My brother - the HS dropout - still says crap like "she borrowed me a dollar". Pretty much makes my skin crawl! And I swear I'm gonna kill the next person I hear say: "boughten"!

I think Stella hit it on the head for me: it's not so much the grammar of getting all the commas, periods, etc. in the right place. It's more a matter of usage. I think most of us, in an informal setting such as this, tend to write in a stream of thought method. So we missplace all those cute little commas and such. But I don't think you need a language degree to consistantly select from "there", "their", and "they're". All it takes is just the slightest effort.

OK, now I need to learn some Polish! 96 verbs meaning "to shit"? That's awesome! As to why (Warning: humorous explaination ahead!) I think it's like the Inuits (Native American tribe way up north in Alaska). They have at least 8 words for snow. When you have a lot of something all around you, I guess you ned a lot of words for it! :D

Here's another quickie for you:
between vs. among
You choose between 2 things but you choose among 3 or more things. As with everything else in English, there is probably at least 1 exception to this.

Any thoughts on "adult" writing vs. "kid" writting on the news: hurt/injure, big/large, etc.?

~Dave

_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to moonvine)

Post #: 39

RE: It's Only Grammar! - 11/1/2008 3:14:12 AM

ElectraGlide

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From: Maryland
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I stuttered real bad as a kid. I would use substitute words to shorten my sentences when I talked. it was less frustrating, if you could spit it out faster. So I would hack up the English language real bad. The stuttering went away by the time high school was over. I still use the word ain't alot. It was easier then trying to say I would or I will. The teachers would get mad back then because ain't was not a official word, then Websters put it in the dictionary, and we could use the word, much to our teachers dis-pleasure, lol.

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Post #: 40

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