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RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/1/2008 6:43:01 PM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Two things I'd like to note. First, that anyone relying exclusively on a bottom's safeword as warning that a problem may exist is a very dangerous Top. And second, that familiarity with your partner probably has the greatest impact on mitigating risk. There's no substitute for that.

I have to agree with both of those and especially the second one.

An example of this in my relationship that fits in with the OP:

I was raped as a teen and as a result he is very hesitant to put us in a position where I would say 'no' to a sexual activity that is happening. He toyed with a scenario one evening; it was just a verbal fantasy that he had me imagine myself in. It was a sexual encounter where I was saying 'no' in the scenario. I had a flashback and the only thing I could say was 'please'. That is a word that I often use when I want to orgasm or want more pain.

He knew just from my tone that something had gone wrong and with knowledge of my past he knew exactly where I went mentally. Without knowing me, there could have been some significant damage done.

In regards sex, the rougher more violent the better as far as I am concerned, but I don't consider it rape play. It just isn't a place he wants me to go in my head.

Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 81

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/1/2008 6:57:03 PM

chicagoswitch

Posts: 68
Joined: 6/11/2008
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I would love to experience rape play or forced sex. However, I know this has to be done with the right partner. Maybe someday I will get "lucky".

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 82

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 7:08:44 AM

MrHarsh

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Joined: 9/28/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GirlGenius

TO ROVER, JOHN, BLGIRL, ANGELA-

I am deeply dissapointed that you feel you can speak for, "most" or "70%" of women, where you have decided based on whatever personal experience you have that, that a rape fantasy is that common.

who the H** do you think you are?

You don't get to prescribe what you think the world thinks. Since it is scientifically impossible to have been with 70% of ALL WOMEN, you don't really get the right to say what they want.

Rape fantasies are in my experience rare.

I hate that you said these things. It bothers me that you think you know so much, when clearly what you are saying is 100% impossible to prove.

Statistical sampling allows us to "scale up" data to the total population through surveys of a segment of the population. You don't HAVE to ask everyone to get a good idea what everyone thinks. By getting information from a few thousand people one can draw conclusions about the population as a whole.

Yes, there are "margins of error," but those can be quantitatively assessed and controlled.

For example, the news is saturated these days with election polls. By sampling a few hundred or few thousand people, pollers can get an idea on how people will vote before the actual election. The poll results all come with margins of error. However, none of these polls surveyed every person in America to get their answers.

Surveys on sexual behavior do exist. For example, this one: http://cloud9.norc.uchicago.edu/dlib/t-25.htm . More relevant to this discussion would be the work of Brett Karr, who sampled over 19000 people on their sexual fantasies. (See here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/mar/03/society )

See also: http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/news/20021119005144_health_news.shtml

For an article on rape fantasies in women, see here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_45/ai_n24383385/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1

quote:

Overall, there are nine reports of the percentage of women who have had rape fantasies, with these estimates ranging from 31% to 57%. Estimates were evenly distributed, with a median of 42%. In addition, these may be underestimates. Claims have been made within the academic and popular cultures that rape fantasies reflect personal and societal pathology (e.g., Brownmiller, 1975). Sentiments such as these suggest that many women may be ashamed of having rape fantasies.

Based on this data, one can say with confidence that at LEAST 40% (or 2 out of every 5) women have rape fantasies. One could probably get away with saying half of all women have rape fantasies, based on the research suggesting that these types of fantasies are under reported.

To say rape fantasies are "rare" is terribly uniformed, bordering on just plain wrong.

It is also very unlikely, however, that 70% of all women have such fantasies. I don't believe such an estimate deserves to be met with hostilities, however.

(in reply to GirlGenius)

Post #: 83

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 7:13:57 AM

RainydayNE

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it's something i'm very interested in and i sometimes wonder why. like if it's coming from somewhere bad =p but i dunno, haha
i imagine as long as there's trust and you're very familiar with your partner it can be alot of fun even if you do have "baggage" so to speak
i was having a really bad dream last night and he woke me up out of it and cuddled with me until it was all better. little stuff like that makes me feel like he'd be tottally safe to do something like this with.

(in reply to MrHarsh)

Post #: 84

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 7:14:55 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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To speak to men and women having this fantasy, I've seen it common in both.

With my partners I learned a valuable lessons as a dom -- I can't do the "rape fantasy" because it requires I take on a role that I find absolutely horrible and unjustifiable.

So how have I played this scenario out successfully with partners?

By changing the parameters of the role-play to be something other than rape. For example, the sub is not a free person but a slave and therefore rape isn't an issue in the imaginary world we set the scene.

That's what works for me and trust if the top in such a scenario breaks down and cries or is asking how you are every five minutes, your "rape fantasy" will very quickly fall flat.

It is a common fantasy but you may need to compromise on how you act it out.

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(in reply to BLGirl)

Post #: 85

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 7:51:18 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

MoGa, some of us aren't able to use safewords. The three basic responses to fear are freeze, flight or fight. For those of us who freeze, the ability to talk disappears, we go rigid, we curl into a ball, we can't use a safeword. Being one of those I can't play with someone who is not a committed partner because only someone I've slowly built up a relationship with is able to read me with any accuracy. He can stop before it's obvious that damage has been done. Anyone waiting for a safeword isn't someone I'm safe with.

I agree. That is why I said "I watch his face, his emotions and his body language." There are many clues to his state of mind that do not involved safe words. It is up to the Dominant/Top to be on the look out for those and to re-act accordingly.

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Post #: 86

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 7:52:27 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
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quote:

Two things I'd like to note. First, that anyone relying exclusively on a bottom's safeword as warning that a problem may exist is a very dangerous Top. And second, that familiarity with your partner probably has the greatest impact on mitigating risk. There's no substitute for that.

John

What he said! <g>

_____________________________

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 87

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 8:00:57 AM

CollaredChicklet

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I've always been interested in it... but I had a very traumatic experience with an abusive partner. I would love to find a way to incorporate "rape play" or some other form of it into my current relationship, I just worry that that specific type of play may trigger some unhealthy emotions that I don't necessarily want. So, is it worth it? are there any alternatives to "rape play"? anything somewhat similar, but just different enough to gradually ease me along? I truly do love and trust my Dom, and I'm not worried about him becoming an abusive partner. I just worry about triggering emotions that are from the past, and should stay there. I'm happy now, and it's all that matters. so where does one compromise desire and fear? hmm...

_____________________________

"The sea was calm, your heart would have responded gaily, when invited, beating obediently to controlling hands" --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 88

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 8:49:50 AM

MidMichCowboy

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I think first that each lady must define what it is she really wants. Rape is not about sex, it's about violence. Rape is a person using sex as a violent weapon against another person. The result isn't about pleasure but violence.

In my experience (no, I'm not talking for anyone other than those I know) women have fantasies of being "taken".

There is a difference, to me, a big difference. When I "take" a lady, it's not for the purpose of violence. I take because I desire her, body and mind. I want her to not just submit to me, but to want it, and need it as bad as I do.

Just my take on the situation.

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Post #: 89

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 8:55:48 AM

RainydayNE

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Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

I think first that each lady must define what it is she really wants. Rape is not about sex, it's about violence. Rape is a person using sex as a violent weapon against another person. The result isn't about pleasure but violence.

In my experience (no, I'm not talking for anyone other than those I know) women have fantasies of being "taken".

There is a difference, to me, a big difference. When I "take" a lady, it's not for the purpose of violence. I take because I desire her, body and mind. I want her to not just submit to me, but to want it, and need it as bad as I do.

Just my take on the situation.

i'd say that's a pretty good take on it
and the violence and other psychological parts (like the threadstarter mentioned humiliation) are what attract some people to it

< Message edited by RainydayNE -- 11/2/2008 8:56:55 AM >

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)

Post #: 90

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 9:06:09 AM

antipode

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I too am surprised at your personal attack. The scientific research on this subject is widely available, and it is not as if one cannot do a quick Google before responding. Secondly, if you don't agree with someone's argument, you can always ask them where they got their data - we now know where, of course.

(in reply to GirlGenius)

Post #: 91

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 10:01:27 AM

Barelily

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Joined: 10/8/2008
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Theres an interesting little poll and the topic here http://www.collarchat.com/m_2246159/mpage_2/tm.htm

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Post #: 92

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 10:12:02 AM

JustDarkness

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I am curious when we say rapeplay..about what we really mean.
We all agree real rape is a terrible thing....so what does make some of us want it.
And what actions do they do to make it "rape"-like.

(in reply to Barelily)

Post #: 93

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 12:33:55 PM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I am curious when we say rapeplay..about what we really mean.
We all agree real rape is a terrible thing....so what does make some of us want it.
And what actions do they do to make it "rape"-like.

Because it is about control. What is rape, but the ultimate control over another?

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Post #: 94

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 12:35:23 PM

JustDarkness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I am curious when we say rapeplay..about what we really mean.
We all agree real rape is a terrible thing....so what does make some of us want it.
And what actions do they do to make it "rape"-like.

Because it is about control. What is rape, but the ultimate control over another?

Not sure if rape is about control. Rape play might be...but who are we kidding of we are the D type...we have that control already.

I mean why would rape be "the thing"to show ultimate control

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 11/2/2008 12:38:22 PM >

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 95

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 12:50:34 PM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I am curious when we say rapeplay..about what we really mean.
We all agree real rape is a terrible thing....so what does make some of us want it.
And what actions do they do to make it "rape"-like.

Because it is about control. What is rape, but the ultimate control over another?

Not sure if rape is about control. Rape play might be...but who are we kidding of we are the D type...we have that control already.

I mean why would rape be "the thing"to show ultimate control

I am talking about real rape, not role play. Yes, we do have the control as the D type, but who gives us that control? The s type.
When there is a case of real rape, it is not about passion or sex, it is about control. The rapist takes without consent or thought. He/She has the ultimate control over their victim. The victim is helpless, mind, body and spirit. Long after the act itself is done, the victim is still suffering at the hands of her/his rapist. They have to live through it on a daily basis, some unable to function, unable to go outside of their homes, unable to take care of themselves. Some are permanently disabled because of it. *I* have never heard of a role play case, where the s type was so damaged from it, that they are unable to function anymore. That is why it is called Role Play, because both parties know each other, they are well aware that it is a role play and not the real thing, therefore no lasting damage to the Psyche.

**Disclaimer**
If there has been cases of an s type who has had said lasting damage, I am not aware of it**

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Post #: 96

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 12:55:11 PM

JustDarkness

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quote:

When there is a case of real rape, it is not about passion or sex, it is about control.

taking control is part of rape. Not sure if it is what they really want...is it the cause of the rape. Did the rapist think "I want control".
No clue..I am not a shrink...perhaps you are right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_rape

guess there are 3 reasons..one is indeed power. But is power control?

Still curious why this would be an example...for play. Power needs to be real not...playing power in "play rape" is different.
JUst curious what makes people go.
I personally just tell me girl to wear older cloths so I can tear them of her body and have her more rough then normal.
For me it doesn't feel as more "control"
What do others feel/think?

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 11/2/2008 12:58:26 PM >

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 97

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 2:19:51 PM

CollaredChicklet

Posts: 146
Joined: 10/28/2008
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ok... I'm a bit different... so i think i will share a bit about my story....

I had been in a relationship a few years ago, just before I had been exploring this lifestyle... I was aware of my submissive nature, and I knew that I had always posessed it. I likes being "taken", as much as possible in the vanilla relationship that I had. I craved it, and I still had my "rape fantasies"... however, the guy that I was with changed... and he became more violent, and forced me to do things (including sex) that I didn't want to. It's odd, because in my own mind, I still "loved" him, but i didnt realize what he was doing till it was too late. I was forced to do things I didnt, and had never wanted to do with him.. It left me hurt, and scarred... I am just now getting over it. I'm pretty sure this will make no sense to you guys, :P and I apologize.. I'm trying to explain as best as I can... But you see, I CRAVED control, I WANTED control... I wanted that strong man to take me . But in that relationship, that kind of "control " was much different... I was hesitant to really get too deep into this lifestyle when I met who is currently my Dom, just because I was scared that that control I had experienced before was the only kind of control... but i found that it is not.. there are different types of control, and it all depends on the goals, wants, needs, fears, desires, and love(or lack of) that is in a relationship. there's so much more to it, than i could ever try to explain... I just, had a different perspective on all of this, and I thought it'd help..... :D

_____________________________

"The sea was calm, your heart would have responded gaily, when invited, beating obediently to controlling hands" --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 98

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 2:24:24 PM

JustDarkness

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Your view/experience is very interesting. I am glad you are recovering. :)
I guess your partner was not in control of himself

(in reply to CollaredChicklet)

Post #: 99

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 11/2/2008 2:26:58 PM

CollaredChicklet

Posts: 146
Joined: 10/28/2008
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hmm.. Yes, I think that is it. he WASN'T in control of himself, and any situation he was in... I'm completely thankful for my current Dom, he is just the opposite: grounded, patient, and reassuring. I am recovering, but I think by telling my story, hopefully it'd help someone esle, not just me!

_____________________________

"The sea was calm, your heart would have responded gaily, when invited, beating obediently to controlling hands" --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 100

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