RE: Thoughts on Rape Play?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Thoughts on Rape Play?

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 12:54:24 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Yes, I know it is PC to say that it is a "crime of violence", but I think we can agree that if there isn't any fucking involved it stops being rape and becomes assault and battery. In other words, a rapist has a sexual goal in mind that someone who just beats the hell out of a woman and leaves her to bleed does not.

not a sexual goal at all. It is a crime of violence and control with a body part...in the same way assault and battery can be a crime of violence (and possibly control) with the fists

Do you even realize how contrived that sounds? Violence and control with "a body part"? Could we try to abstract and disassociate it a little more please? I know that abstraction and disassociation are coping mechanisms when things get too icky to face directly, but please. Rape is fucking you when you don't want to be fucked.  "Sexual assault" is doing something with your pussy or asshole that you don't want done that isn't actually fucking.

It is very true that often, but not always, and I'm not even sure that it's a majority of the time, substantial battery occurs along with the non-consensual fucking.  But at the end of the day, a rapist wants to fuck you, and he doesn't care if you agree. Are men who would take the risk of doing so given how risky it is likely to also be violent? Yeah, probably. Uncontrollably agressive men prone to risk taking usually are.  However, I don't buy that it's a crime without sexual motivation for a minute.

Edit: Just to add a little fact to the fiction here; according to the National Criminal Justice Research Service (part of the Department of Justice) about 8% of women who report rapes nationally require hospitalization. See NCJ 159977.  Of those, about 3% are killed by their attackers. At the same time, a survey showed that the general public thinks that about 25% of rape victims are killed. The study attributed the disparity to selective and distorted media coverage.

That isn't to say that rape is not a brutal crime, to be sure, but to say that is a crime that is wholly motivated by a desire to do violence to a woman is a gross distortion. It is a sex crime.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/7/2009 1:46:04 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 121

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 12:57:59 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

not a sexual goal at all. It is a crime of violence and control with a body part...in the same way assault and battery can be a crime of violence (and possibly control) with the fists

Surely, you're being intentionally disingenuous, yes?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 122

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 1:28:08 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What I think is that you have worked very hard to justify some seriously flawed views...

Actually, that would be you and your splicing together Leonidas' words out of context and using an appeal to emotion to try to push the point across.

He said:

quote:

Those urges are there because raping, and being raped, is one of the "success strategies" that helped to shape us during our evolution as a species.

Followed by:

quote:

Most men are, in some respects, built to rape you, and you are built to be raped. It's just a natural part of how we are.

And you shoved them both together to create a point her never made:

quote:

most men wouldn't think of rape as a "success strategy"

As if to imply it's a modus operandi rather than an observation on the human species. Poor, poor debate etiquette.

Fuck debate etiquette.....rape is not a success strategy....rape is not a sex crime.....rape is a crime of violence.Plain and simple....the two of you can distort it all you like....you can label it political correctness,you can ask if my "slave tendencies would make me a likely prison rape victim.....I don't give a shit.
Talk about chutzpah...discussing rape as a game and pointing out poor "etiquette"
thats takes the cake.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 123

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 1:35:29 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Fuck debate etiquette.....rape is not a success strategy....rape is not a sex crime.....rape is a crime of violence.Plain and simple....the two of you can distort it all you like....you can label it political correctness,you can ask if my "slave tendencies would make me a likely prison rape victim.....I don't give a shit.
Talk about chutzpah...discussing rape as a game and pointing out poor "etiquette"
thats takes the cake.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, mike.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 124

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 1:38:40 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Fuck debate etiquette.....rape is not a success strategy....rape is not a sex crime.....rape is a crime of violence.Plain and simple....the two of you can distort it all you like....you can label it political correctness,you can ask if my "slave tendencies would make me a likely prison rape victim.....I don't give a shit.
Talk about chutzpah...discussing rape as a game and pointing out poor "etiquette"
thats takes the cake.

This from someone demanding 'evolved thinking' from another poster.

When you get your anger management about the topic under control and can understand basic anthropology, do return so we may actually engage in sensible discourse.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 125

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 1:39:51 PM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

not a sexual goal at all. It is a crime of violence and control with a body part...in the same way assault and battery can be a crime of violence (and possibly control) with the fists

Surely, you're being intentionally disingenuous, yes?

Nope...it is a crime of violence and control.

_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 126

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 1:42:21 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

rape is not a sex crime

This takes the cake, though.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 127

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 1:49:13 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

Nope...it is a crime of violence and control.

Wrought through sexual acts. Using "control" is nonsensical, because every crime is non-consensual, ergo, using your logic, every crime is a crime of "control". Which makes using the descriptor (even if we take your notion at face value) superfluous.

And, by your logic, any sexual assault in which violence is removed suddenly becomes a non-crime...or, at least, should only be a crime to the extent of the other acts. Meaning, I meet a girl at a bar, convince her to come to my place so I can cook her dinner...and then catch her off guard with chloroform and rape her while she is unconscious, without "violence". Using your logic, I have magically not raped her (but I'm guilty of making her unconscious via chloroform). I would also have plenty of other options available to me also! Coercion, inebriation, blackmail...

Deconstructing every instance of rape to an issue of control is a gross reductionism of the biology behind it, regardless of whether it happens sometimes or even most of the time.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/7/2009 1:50:59 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 128

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 2:02:11 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Again with the twisting.....let me correct it for you....rape is not about sex...it is about violence and subjugation.
But I do stand corrected it is most certainly a sex crime per se....just not about sex...or the imperative to propagate the species as was suggested by the two of you.
And now I will step away from here and take a long hot shower...somehow this conversation with you two has left me feeling dirty.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 129

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 2:18:00 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

In other words, in environments where men can get away with it, it happens a lot more.

What this doesn't explain is this: generally speaking human beings create societies where rape is unlawful.

Surely you're not going to argue that our century's old institutions and laws are a human malfunction that mask the 'real' human condition?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 130

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 2:23:30 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But I do stand corrected it is most certainly a sex crime per se....just not about sex...

While the mindset to minimize the sexuality of rapes so as not to allow room for victims to be questioned with irrelevant topics that garner emotional attention (like if she was dressed in a way that "lured" the rapist) can be of noble intent, categorically reducing every instance of rape to an issue of control and violence (whether usually accurate) is not sensible. The motivations for rape, as with any other crime, can be varied and there are instances where certain effects suggest more concern with control than fulfillment (such as in rapes where the criminal does not or chooses not to ejaculate), but the very reason the crime takes that direction is because of biological sexual motivators and the fact that sexuality is one of the most vulnerable facets of an individual.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/7/2009 2:24:26 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 131

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 2:30:38 PM

LdyWintershade

Posts: 41
Joined: 6/9/2009
Status: offline

I must say that this is not my area of preference, however it is much more common among women than I had ever imagined through the experiences I've had. It strikes me as strange though, and I think it is a matter of terminology; Going into the situation in the first place with the desire to experience it, negates the entire concept of rape. Additionally, as I believe was mentioned earlier, the psychology of rape is control and power, not sex. So, I guess my only issue is the phrase 'rape' being used,....(though, admittedly, I can not think of a better one..lol)...as it is simply not an accurate description of the encounter. It is physically forced sexual practice, but that isn't really the same.
I, too, have had the unfortunate experience of real rape and have played with the fantasy; and though it was not my proverbial 'cup of tea', it was NOT the same experience I had when charges were filed. It does not feel the same, nor do I think (just an opinion, here) that many (if any) women who have been raped are looking to duplicate that feeling again. What they are trying to attain is something else, with some similar elements.
These, of course, are just my thoughts and not meant to incite/provoke anyone into anger....only into thought. :)

- I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death, your right to say it.

(in reply to Barelily)

Post #: 132

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 2:42:06 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

What this doesn't explain is this: generally speaking human beings create societies where rape is unlawful.

Surely you're not going to argue that our century's old institutions and laws are a human malfunction that mask the 'real' human condition?

No, I'm not. I thought I explained in my original post that it's perfectly understandable why humans would tend to sanction the rapist, and almost unversally do so. In other words, there are perfectly natural explainations for why men rape, and why they would tend to cooporate in keeping other men from doing so. But, as with many other crimes, the presence of risk (in the form of societal sanctions) discourages the opportunist. Where that risk diminishes, the opportunist is emboldened. If there is some human condition other than that, it is a condition with which I am unfamilliar.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 133

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 3:33:24 PM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

quote:

Wrought through sexual acts. Using "control" is nonsensical, because every crime is non-consensual, ergo, using your logic, every crime is a crime of "control". Which makes using the descriptor (even if we take your notion at face value) superfluous.

tell it to the experts then. The last i heard they were even leading away from a crime of violence and leaning more toward control.

I can try to find the link

_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 134

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 3:57:24 PM

jeninvegas

Posts: 79
Joined: 6/11/2009
Status: offline

From what I understand about 'rape' I would definitely not enjoy the play involving it. For me, the word 'rape' involves losing control to someone I would not otherwise trust. It's a word that draws out negative feelings and I don't believe that's a good approach to play. I would say my interest lies in 'force play' rather than 'rape play'. My definition of the two plays are different, of course, I totally understand that others do not see it that way, much like everything else in BDSM (or life, for that matter).

_____________________________

"If you're going through hell, keep going..." -Winston Churchill

"9 out of 10 guys like girls with big boobs; the 10th guy likes the 9 other men." --Just Shoot Me

"Baby, when it's love, if it's not rough, it isn't fun." Lady GaGa.

(in reply to GirlGenius)

Post #: 135

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 4:08:59 PM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

. Those urges are there because raping, and being raped, is one of the "success strategies" that helped to shape us during our evolution as a species.

.

I have studied archeology..archeomythology and anthropology for
16 years.. and I can tell you that yes..primitive half men may have grabbed the choice female to deposit seed for survival but
for about 9000 years on earth humans actually had evolved
into peaceful..non-violent..nonfortfied villages..partnership and matri-focal societies...
where there is no evidence of rape..violence..or taking of each others mates..goods etc.

The return to the rape type of behaviors and taking of women and children and killing of men RETURNED along with domestication of the horse and use of metal for weapons by Kurgans
The Kurgans became mobile and wielded the sword over a period of about 300 years in Europe..coming in 3 waves and destroying the peaceful groups of Old Europe.

Kurganization marked changes in habitation pattern..social strcture..economy and religion...including worship of a Sky God not earth Goddess and supression of the feminine Divine..along with power over not with..women as slave and a dominator not partenership society.

The killing of men in villages and taking the women contributed to the making of a new soceity by fucking the old genes out..a tactic still seen in wars today and assumed as an occurance for terrorization of men and women.

Now if we go back to the very old again...
it is most fascinating I think..

The ethologist Robert Dunbar has recently argued that rape is an evolutionary sensile policy for men who would not other wise get a partner

.He says then by genetic imperitive a woman would seek out a rapist with above average reporductive process.

The arguemnt may seem absurd or in bad taste and having been raped many times in ,many ways Iwas at first appalled until I read further and opened to the idea.

If a woman had only one opportunity to collect the genes of a most successful partner to further her offspring and bring them the most
successful characteristics would she not allow the biggest strongest ape in? or would they simply be glad that as they washed by the river "big man" took them from behind and unloaded..insuring her strong offspring..??

Only by a long stretch of the imagination though could a tendency to rape as seen in cultural terms as more successful as say courage...

BUT then as in scenerios of harsh conditions a woman may make herself available to the strongest etc( this then is not rape but unspoken breeding protocol)
We would then have the other men protecting the best woman from weak sperm etc.

on my see me flip flopping?? as I proccess this.??..its all good..
.
A social situation where rape is for impreganation as with the Kurgans is war...but not with the intent of the survival or succes of the offspring.....
There is also the FIRST RIGHT practice in ancient times where king..lord..etc had the right to the first intercourse with any NEW bride...again depositing genes over his domain.

as for the rape play question...
OP:
even though I was raped...as in VIOLENCE..
I enjoy rape play ..why? it is MY CHOICE NOW!!
it is play...it is sexual..I know what will happen..I know I won't die or have my insides knifed out again..

GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 7/7/2009 4:58:48 PM >

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 136

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 4:10:04 PM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

In other words, there are perfectly natural explainations for why men rape, and why they would tend to cooporate in keeping other men from doing so.

this was to go with the above..00ps

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 7/7/2009 4:55:00 PM >

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 137

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 4:28:40 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhembein

Another random bump from the archives. Gotta love these.

Especially when done by someone begging for attention from a poster on one of the older pages.

Yes, that was interesting.

I've seen that specific response on rape boards before, although never on a bdsm board until today. Let me put this carefully. Certain men interested in the subject of rape seem most attracted to the women who demonstrate in such discussions that they are the least interested in the subject, and are in fact very angry about it. GG certainly fits that profile.

She was, in fact, so twitish about a well-known albeit non-PC statistic that's cropped up in dozens of scientific studies by reputable sexologists, from Masters and Johnson on that I started to write her an annoyed response about usurping the name of such a wonderful comic strip then making such silly remarks under it...until I realized how old the post was.

But back to the rape boards. This male response was so common that often the women interested in rape... play would mimic the combatitive female in hopes that they, too, would get the quality of attention she was getting and that they so bad wanted. And if they weren't too well known on the board yet, it would often work. (shakes head) People are cute.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 138

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 4:31:04 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
tell it to the experts then. The last i heard they were even leading away from a crime of violence and leaning more toward control.

I can try to find the link

Most studies do show the psychological deconstruction of many instances of rape (perhaps most) as being motivated by factors of control, yes. The motivational mechanisms behind the acts aren't universal, though (especially when reducing the entire issue to a one-dimensional social fuel), and the analyses, via the focus on the perpetrators (as a means of understanding the phenomenon), miss the general construct if its applied too broadly: in the same way that vehicle theft, if related to psychological motivations related to extreme thrill-seeking, does not suddenly turn grand theft auto into an issue of selective addiction.

I actually found a rather nifty article about the topic (as it related to a publication concerning the history of rape) by Massimo Pigliucci, an NYU ecology and evolution professor who I've been intellectually awed by for quite some time. Viewable here.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/7/2009 4:34:00 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 139

RE: Thoughts on Rape Play? - 7/7/2009 6:33:30 PM

autoRelease

Posts: 69
Joined: 6/22/2009
Status: offline

I wouldn't go there myself, but I think it's great that we've reached a point as a society where women feel safe admitting to this kind of thing.

(in reply to Barelily)

Post #: 140

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Thoughts on Rape Play?

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109