Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need ...=-


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need ...=- Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 7:15:54 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		i don't really think the statement as it stands makes all that profound a statement, but it's written as if it's trying to. =p like most of us here are aware of some sort of distinction between the two, but if you were coming from the "outside," i don't think that statement would explain much at all.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 7:21:23 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Never heard this "common" statement before.

In my household the difference is one of time and motivation.

Subs are time-limited and usually motivated by self first or equally motivated between sub/dom.

Slave are always and motivated by serving the dom first.

That's just how we see the difference here. Everything else depends on the individuals.

But anyway, back to the OP statement " Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told." -- (comments below based on how this works in my household, not yours)

I'd say the first is true for both in the initial stages of a dynamic. In my household, a sub could well require being told what to do -- it is time-limited after all -- but a slave who needed me to tell him what to do would very quickly grew tiresome to me. He should have absorbed his training and be putting it into practice so he can serve without need of direction. I'd say a good long-term sub can do that too.

The second sentence above though also isn't that cut and dry here. At the moment you are in the scene, a sub should do as they are told and since the scene is always the slave to should do as they are told. Wise people allow and use questions and their brains however.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 8:38:09 AM   
laura2161


Posts: 254
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Duluth, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

a submissive is more self oriented.  a "whats in it for me" kind of thing.  she may need to be told more than once to do something, over and over again.  a slave will struggle within herself to remember everything  she is told, and wont deviate from that command until told otherwise.  she will even fault and punish herself for forgetting.

perhaps that is the answer?

tazzy


Perhaps not.

You can actually change submissive and slave in the above quote.
A slave has a 'what's in it for me' type of attitude. One thing I've noticed quite often said from slaves is that they 'need to serve'. Therefore if you 'need' to serve, you have a whats in it for me attitude, meaning what's in it for you is to serve.

I do not think a slave or submissive needs to be told what to do over and over again. Hell, if that's the case, then either thats one absent minded little sub or slave or he/she  just gets off on being a pain in the ass.

As for faulting oneself, again both slaves and subs to this. Its not simply one or the other.

Bah- Slave, sub, ...right now I am faulting myself for allowing myself to even respond to this thread.




_____________________________

'I am not infantile, You StinkyButt Poophead!'

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 8:42:32 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laura2161

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

a submissive is more self oriented.  a "whats in it for me" kind of thing.  she may need to be told more than once to do something, over and over again.  a slave will struggle within herself to remember everything  she is told, and wont deviate from that command until told otherwise.  she will even fault and punish herself for forgetting.

perhaps that is the answer?

tazzy


Perhaps not.

You can actually change submissive and slave in the above quote.
A slave has a 'what's in it for me' type of attitude. One thing I've noticed quite often said from slaves is that they 'need to serve'. Therefore if you 'need' to serve, you have a whats in it for me attitude, meaning what's in it for you is to serve.

I do not think a slave or submissive needs to be told what to do over and over again. Hell, if that's the case, then either thats one absent minded little sub or slave or he/she  just gets off on being a pain in the ass.

As for faulting oneself, again both slaves and subs to this. Its not simply one or the other.

Bah- Slave, sub, ...right now I am faulting myself for allowing myself to even respond to this thread.





i totally agree with laura. that "what's in it more me" thingie is something i've heard more attitributed to the role of "bottoming," but it's all just semantics. which is what makes stuff like this kinda silly. =p you say "this is what a sub does" and a sub says "no this is what i do" and someone else comes along and says "oh that's what a slave does" =p
there is no clear, solid line between the two.

(in reply to laura2161)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 8:48:09 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

I think it says sub implies choice slave implies no choice.... -shrugs-


I think it is important to note that this is a -purely- perceptual implication, though. In reality, both those who call themselves 'submissives' and those who call themselves 'slaves' have a choice, even if the choice is nothing more than deciding, each day, to get up and do one's best to follow the decrees of one's keepers.

It doesn't make sense to me to debate the relative implications of two words which, in reality, define nothing more than a particular relationship in a given space and time, and which can, by social design, no longer be applied in any general way to the population at large (even within the specific community of WIITWD--and ignoring the inefficiency of trying to define 'the community). Attempting to use semantic dances to differentiate that which has no solid definition when applied to the culture seems to serve no purpose other than attempting to divide the (already divisive) community by instilling "I'm somehow -more- than you are" speculations.

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 9:04:09 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		The mental images this conjures for me are:
 
A dominant standing over a sub, flogger in hand, giving orders and doling out punishment for infractions because the sub won't serve unless she's getting something out of it at that precise moment.
 
A slave on her knees, happily waiting to be called to service, which she performs for nothing more than the gratification of having been pleasing.
 
Whether or not either of those assessments is accurate, I don't know.  Like many others, I see the statement as irrelevant.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 9:18:47 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds

those kind of statements come from those who don't have a clue, but if it works for them, more power to them.


I agree with several posts on this thread; specifically the ones that identify with the one I've quoted.
 
Pithy sayings that attempt to define in just a few words what takes most people years to outline in their own lives and personal experience, usually come from people that have quickly developed an incomplete understanding of the concept they are attempting to define. 
 
The statement that RS quoted appears, to me, to be an all or nothing generalization, implying that one either agrees with it or one is not in understanding of the concept at all. 



_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to daddysliloneds)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 9:33:53 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Dom's need to be told what they can do.  Master's need to do what they are told they can do.
 
::snickers:::

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 11:04:06 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Dom's need to be told what they can do.  Master's need to do what they are told they can do.
 
::snickers:::



This is not as silly as it may sound. generally I have found that submissives will tell their domoinatt what he or she can do and what they (the sub) would like to have done to them where as a potential slave will oinform her potential Master in detail areas which she as a person prefer to avoid (such as child sex and beastiality or scat etc) and will usually accept a collar from a Master who is on a similar track (or at lease the best relationships start this way) but she will never tell him when or what he can do for it is always his choice and her main drive is to be found pleasing by her owner in all ways.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 11:51:37 AM   
greeneyes600


Posts: 47
Joined: 9/16/2008
Status: offline 		Hi ResidentSadist....I agree totally with your confusion.  I am a submissive.  I hate being spoken about as though i do not WANT to obey.  Call us what you like but we are ALL submissives, we all submit, just to varying degrees. 

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 11:52:22 AM   
lilmisssubmiss


Posts: 284
Joined: 9/29/2008
Status: offline 		Just another saying that slaves have no limits and subs do..which is stupid we are human i thnk we all have limits if you dont then there is something wrong with you.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 11:55:31 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: greeneyes600

Hi ResidentSadist....I agree totally with your confusion.  I am a submissive.  I hate being spoken about as though i do not WANT to obey.  Call us what you like but we are ALL submissives, we all submit, just to varying degrees. 


agreed.

(in reply to greeneyes600)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 7:18:40 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		For a lot of reasons i won't go into, i consider myself "a" submissive -- but that didn't mean i didn't see what needed to be done and do it without expectations of what my partner might have done for me. my Dom/sub relationships have not been tit for tat.  While i perhaps shared, with his encouragement, what i liked and didn't like that didn't mean that he wasn't the one to make the decisions of when, where and even if, i was the one who graciously and willingly accepted those decisions.  i am not a slave, but a submissive -- at least by my definition -- and that's probably all i'd better say on the subject..lol

cheers,
jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to RainydayNE)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 7:42:31 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

"Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told."   


Beside the fact it is inane at best, I object to the word “need” in both sentences.  Whether submissive or slave, we do not need to be told what to do, we do not need to do as we are told. 
We want to do it!


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/2/2008 7:53:13 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		It strikes me as a rather erroneous and non-sensical statement, as a generalization. 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 1:43:58 AM   
hopelesslyInvo


Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline 		to me, i get the impression that it means submissives are too often a burden by constantly needing to be told what to do, and slaves are a burden by not doing the things that they are told.

couldn't say much what i think it really means without any context though, but just being apparently a phrase that gets thrown around it's probably just one of those lines that sounds 'deep and intellectual' so people quote it to death without thinking as to what it means first, the same as a million other phrases.


_____________________________

great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 5:32:12 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		as a submissive, i have been away from D/s too long, perhaps, to honestly speak with much authority on that topic.  as a slave, i know more.  slaves are not burdened by not doing what they are told... we hunger to be commanded.. we ache to serve and please.  we dont always assume what the needs or wants are.. so we wait to hear.  so, yes, a slave needs to do as they are told.. for in that command, we find our pleasure.

tazzy

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/3/2008 5:35:15 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to hopelesslyInvo)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 5:41:16 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist


"Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told."

I don’t see a difference in either statement as they apply to any subordinant.  Yet it seems like it is trying to explain a difference between slaves and submissives.

I have good grasp of the English language but, this common slogan escapes my ability to understand it.  I have looked at it quite seriously wondering if there was some blind spot in my personality structure that prevented me from seeing the reason so many people put this quote in their profiles. 

Anyone care to shed some light on this?


Well, strictly as a matter of logic and language, the two phrases do say different things.
 
To 'tell someone what to do' means they need instruction.
 
To expect someone to 'do as they're told' implies they need to be obedient. No one can *obey a rule* they don't know.
 
candystripper  

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 5:43:41 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:


"Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need to do what they are told."


After much contemplation, I have successfully translated the above statement to mean:
 
"My girl is a slave, your's is just a submissive."
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves ne... - 11/3/2008 6:01:29 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		Bravo John!
 
That is my impression as well~
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOqDvH7ME2Q 



_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: -=Submissives need to be told what to do. Slaves need ...=- Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094