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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 6:20:56 PM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Nice try at putting your spin on things but it's perfectly clear that what he admitted to in that interview is that his cap-and-trade system is a hoax, merely an underhanded lie that allows him to promise voters in the coal states that he means them no harm as he plans to hang them out to dry.

China will get all the business Obama drives out of the country by driving power rates up through his elaborate "cap and trade" tax scheme on all our industry.

This is the last thing we need, especially given the current economical situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're still taking it out of context. This paragraph proceeds the one you're quoting:

quote:

I was the first to call for a 100% auction on the cap and trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted down caps that are being placed, imposed every year

So in context he is talking about pollution control.

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 6:32:19 PM

slvemike4u

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Sanity,do you believe Oama bears the coal industry malice.The industry claims the can burn coal cleanly,your candidate agrees with that position.....again I will ask you,what is the problem.Clean coal captures the emissions ...right,therefor nothing to worry about concerning an emission tax.

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 6:42:28 PM

Sanity

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It appears from Obama's words that any emissions are too much for him, even from what is considered to be a clean power plant. You can hear for yourself that he swore in that interview that if anyone attempts to build new coal plants they will be bankrupted, and the revelations in that interview cannot be squared with the promises Obama made to the voters in the coal belt not to harm their industry.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sanity,do you believe Oama bears the coal industry malice.The industry claims the can burn coal cleanly,your candidate agrees with that position.....again I will ask you,what is the problem.Clean coal captures the emissions ...right,therefor nothing to worry about concerning an emission tax.

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Post #: 23

RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 6:48:46 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Are you paying attention Ohio? Pennsylvania?

No, we are too busy fielding robot calls from the McCain camp. Two so far, don't robots get Sundays off?

If the Obama bots are working today, then it's only fair that McCain also irritate the hell out of people. After all, we wouldn't want you to feel left out.

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 6:56:05 PM

slvemike4u

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I took the quote to mean new coal plants operating in the old dirty way.I believe most intelligent listeners can safely make that leap.Is it not a fact that if you are operating a clean power plant,emission's tax is not a problem.Do you dispute that fact? Regardless of this quote,unless you are saying he holds a particular bias against the coal industry,how will he tax clean plants into extinction ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 7:14:52 PM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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It isn't just that one interview, look at this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ55UzAsp6M

Tell me that they're for clean coal after watching that.

The biggest concern that people should have over this whole coal debacle isn't so much that the Obama / Biden ticket's main priority seems to be cutting off America's affordable energy, which it can be argued that our current economic situation is directly resulting from a shortage of energy... the biggest concern should be Obama's habit of saying one thing to his elite movie star friends in San Fransisco, and then the complete opposite when he's talking down to his hard working supporters in the Midwest.

Now, Midwesterners are clinging to coal too, apparently. How can Obama's followers watch this Loony Tunes act of his and then buy into anything he's saying to them... it all depends on what's expedient at the moment, they're only words and they mean nothing to Obama.

Nobody has the foggiest idea who this man is, nobody possibly can - he's a two-faced liar.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/2/2008 7:22:10 PM >

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 7:28:03 PM

smilingjaguar

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*yawn* This has been available online for months...

I can't wait for the election to be over. The pathetic desperation of the Republicans, though enjoyable at first, has become tiresome and whiny. Voters are not going to be distracted by these sorts of attacks this time; there's just too much risk in 4 more years of Republican rule.

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 7:45:51 PM

Sanity

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No, you're wrong. This audio of Obama hasn't been available at all.

And using Obama's own words aren't pathetic attacks against him, unless he's a pathetic individual.

His words are advertising the reality associated with electing him. When gas was above four dollars a gallon and the price of everything else was rising as a result of the increased costs associated with higher fuel prices, that should have woken people up to how much we rely on energy for everything we do. From heating and cooling our homes to powering our jobs to growing our food and transporting us and everything we use, we rely on affordable energy every day.

It's probably the single most important issue facing Americans today. Energy IS the economy, and Obama's plan is just mindless. There is no plan, unless you can call doing without any kind of a plan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

*yawn* This has been available online for months...

I can't wait for the election to be over. The pathetic desperation of the Republicans, though enjoyable at first, has become tiresome and whiny. Voters are not going to be distracted by these sorts of attacks this time; there's just too much risk in 4 more years of Republican rule.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/2/2008 8:10:12 PM >

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 7:50:59 PM

Owner59

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This is the conservative take and non-sense.

This "the sky is falling" ,b-s narrative is bit to little a bit to late.

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 7:57:41 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Remember four dollar gas...

You must not.

Maybe that's why you're referring to our current energy reality as a "the sky is falling" ,b-s narrative."

And maybe that's why you can't imagine the same thing happening to our electrical rates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This is the conservative take and non-sense.

This "the sky is falling" ,b-s narrative is bit to little a bit to late.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/2/2008 8:11:28 PM >

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:11:25 PM

smilingjaguar

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Sanity,

The problem is now that McCain has brought up so many of these "boogeyman" things about Obama that have brought about little more than a collective yawn from most of the voters, there could be a legitimate video of Obama boiling someone alive and then eating them and no one would believe McCain. He's out of credibility at this point. People remember Kerry being swiftboated as well...

As for your idea that energy shortage is somehow responsible for all of the economic ills in the US, that's ridiculous. Energy shortages didn't cause Wall Street greed to mate with Republican deregulation to produce a horribly deformed inbred financial crisis the likes of which we have never seen.

I don't think either side has a clue as far as energy. Sir works in the oil industry and the "drill baby drill" stuff is a good idea...if there were a single drilling rig owned by a major driller without a 3-year wait. Even the ones being built right now are scheduled 2 years out. The dilapidated drilling rig at his platform right now took 2-1/2 years to get there and has spent the last few months mostly in repair mode. Open up more land to drilling, but it won't help without the capacity to actually drill the wells. More oil won't help without more refineries to make gasoline. I DO think that right now while there is a global demand reduction for oil we ought to be putting our eggs in developing energy sources other than oil. I don't know that I buy clean coal as being all that clean, but I need to read up on it some more. I've said before that I live in pretty close proximity to 2 nuclear plants and wouldn't have a problem with more of them.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 31

RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:19:11 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
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Nooooo.Tsk tsk....

He said he would bankrupt dirty coal plants.And as he should,it`s a good idea.

The industry isn`t going to go clean-coal on their own, out of the generosity of their hearts.If it were possible,if they could,they would dump even more pollution into our air and water and build even dirtier plants.

For the normal folks,Obama said that building a dirty plant wouldn`t allow for the owners to make a profit b/c of the cost of paying us to allow dirty plants to pollute our air.

That`s how the incentive system would work.Build clean or pay more.Your choice.

Sanity would like dirty coal plant owners to pay nothing to dump their wastes into our air and water.

If they build a clean coal plant,they won`t have to pay those credits(or as many) b/c they won`t be dumping tons of vaporized mercury,lead and other heavy-metal toxins into our air.

The choice is clear.

More heavy metal toxins ---- McCain

Less heavy metal toxins-----Obama

The conservitive answer is to pollute like there`e no tomorrow.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/2/2008 8:21:46 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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Post #: 32

RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:29:02 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

Sanity,

The problem is now that McCain has brought up so many of these "boogeyman" things about Obama that have brought about little more than a collective yawn from most of the voters, there could be a legitimate video of Obama boiling someone alive and then eating them and no one would believe McCain. He's out of credibility at this point. People remember Kerry being swiftboated as well...

What McCain says has little bearing on whether or not Obama's energy policy is sound. That's almost like saying that you're inclined to agree with Obama because of the price of tea in China, or something else that equally unrelated.

And Kerry could never have been swiftboated had he any character at all. Those veterans opposed to Kerry were legitimate and they had every right to speak out against his dishonorable actions in regards to them.

quote:

As for your idea that energy shortage is somehow responsible for all of the economic ills in the US, that's ridiculous. Energy shortages didn't cause Wall Street greed to mate with Republican deregulation to produce a horribly deformed inbred financial crisis the likes of which we have never seen.

Energy is in large part responsible for the current economic slowdown as well as inflation. It's so strange that so many people who lived through the spike in fuel costs can so ignore the consequences that were and are being seen and felt all around us. The Wall Street fiasco has a part, sure, but that is arguably the fault primarily of Congressional Democrats, but that's for another thread, and it's really been hashed out already many times over.

quote:

I don't think either side has a clue as far as energy. Sir works in the oil industry and the "drill baby drill" stuff is a good idea...if there were a single drilling rig owned by a major driller without a 3-year wait. Even the ones being built right now are scheduled 2 years out. The dilapidated drilling rig at his platform right now took 2-1/2 years to get there and has spent the last few months mostly in repair mode. Open up more land to drilling, but it won't help without the capacity to actually drill the wells. More oil won't help without more refineries to make gasoline. I DO think that right now while there is a global demand reduction for oil we ought to be putting our eggs in developing energy sources other than oil. I don't know that I buy clean coal as being all that clean, but I need to read up on it some more. I've said before that I live in pretty close proximity to 2 nuclear plants and wouldn't have a problem with more of them.

Well then, look more closely at the energy plans of either side - Harry Reid vs. Nuclear, in particular. If your Sir works in oil I'm sure you're aware of where Democrats stand there (NO ENERGY FOR YOU!)

While it might take some time to bring new wells online Democrats have been saying that for so long now that we could have had several new entire oil FIELDS online by now, had we started drilling when they first started saying it.

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:29:36 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Are you paying attention Ohio? Pennsylvania?

NO ENERGY FOR YOU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ

http://media.newsbusters.org/stories/hidden-audio-obama-tells-sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry.html?q=blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/11/02/hidden-audio-obama-tells-sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry

Seems to me he was telling the Chronical that for new coal plants being considered, either they take advantage of all of the technology to clean it or his new cap & trade system might otherwise make it financially unprofitable. His policy of cap & trade would not bankrupt existing plants anywhere and was a bad choice of words.

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:31:43 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Demonize people much

quote:

The conservitive answer is to pollute like there`e no tomorrow.

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Post #: 35

RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:41:30 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Yeah, if you reinterpret what Obama told the Chronicle, sure. Change his words around.

Hah, yeah.

And George Bush is the smartes guy on the planet, too. He just needs to be reinterpreted a lot...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Are you paying attention Ohio? Pennsylvania?

NO ENERGY FOR YOU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ

http://media.newsbusters.org/stories/hidden-audio-obama-tells-sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry.html?q=blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/11/02/hidden-audio-obama-tells-sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry

Seems to me he was telling the Chronical that for new coal plants being considered, either they take advantage of all of the technology to clean it or his new cap & trade system might otherwise make it financially unprofitable. His policy of cap & trade would not bankrupt existing plants anywhere and was a bad choice of words.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/2/2008 8:45:07 PM >

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RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:42:26 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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No polluting dirty-coal plants for you!!!

I love it.

It`s possible tho,that we`ll elect McCain and get the dirty.Keep hope alive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I heard that all of Palin`s Pipe Line gas surplus is being sold to Asia......and none to go to the lower 48......

I smell a rat.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Post #: 37

RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:46:19 PM

MasterJaguar01

Posts: 2355
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

These are his exact words, which I linked to the audio recording above::

"So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted."

You stand corrected.

All this fuss over a completely out-of-context quote???? sheesh

Both Obama AND McCain claim to support clean coal. That is ALL Obama was talking about.

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Post #: 38

RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 8:59:53 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

These are his exact words, which I linked to the audio recording above::

"So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted."

You stand corrected.

All this fuss over a completely out-of-context quote???? sheesh

Both Obama AND McCain claim to support clean coal. That is ALL Obama was talking about.

But if you take complicated issues with arcane rules and methods,it`s so much easier to confuse people(and scare them) than it is to inform them.

Right Sanity?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/2/2008 9:00:50 PM >

_____________________________

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President Obama

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Post #: 39

RE: Obama Claimed He Will BANKRUPT The Coal Industry - 11/2/2008 9:14:41 PM

ThatDaveGuy69

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Yawn...
News Flash: There is no such thing as clean energy. Period.
How does all that coal get to the allegedly clean coal plant?
How does all that fuel oil get refined and delivered to the oil-fired plants?
How does uranium get processd into nuclear fuel?

Every major type of energy we use today has an enormous environmental impact somewhere between being in the ground and recharging your iPod.

You want to drill in the gulf? Be prepared to clean up after another major spill, leak, etc.
You want more coal? Tell it to the towns that collapsed into the ground after all the coal was removed from beneath them. Try filling in a strip mine after the coal is gone. Better yet, try cleaning the 1,000's of lakes and streams polluted by mine run-off and acid rain. Tell the coal miners with black lung disease how clean coal is.
More nukes? Anyone remember Three Mile Island or Chernobyl?

Every major type of energy has a huge environmental impact.

A primary goal of whatever energy policy the next administraion creates has got to deal with this. A "clean" coal plant or a safer nuke plant will cost more to build. While there have been great strides in technology, they aren't free.

Since we're picking on coal, what's wrong with requiring every coal plant - new or old - to use every bit of technology available to cut emissions as much as possible? Will electricity rates increase? Of course they will! Am I happy about it? Absolutely not! But whether you agree on the details - or even the concept - of global warming, we simply cannot continue to pollute like we have for the last 150 years. Why is that so hard to understand?

What I suspect will happen is tighter regs for the construction of new coal-fired plants. And requirements to update existing plants by some far off date and with tax-payer support (tax breaks). Senator Obama's plan is to use market forces to achieve this. Is this really all that different from any other idea that has ever been considered?

Take a deep breath (while it's still safe to) and relax a little. Nobody is going to bankrupt the coal industry.

It just ocurred to me that when the wind came from the northeast I used to be able to smell the oil refineries of Whiting, IN. That was before the landfill reached a certain height...

~Dave

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