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Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 5:31:43 AM   
CarrieO


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Status: offline 		Can verbal humiliation be used as a tool to "build up" a person?  
If someone has experience with this, on either side, please explain. 

*I did do a search on this and found many threads on humiliation and one on verbal but no real answer on how to use it for positive results.






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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 6:08:55 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		I think on some level that is how we use verbal humiliation.  It is the difference between being just A slut and being MY slut.  It is going to those dreaded places that perhaps before were truly negative or a place of rejection except at the far end of the tunnel is someone who loves you for going there for them.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 6:44:20 AM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I think on some level that is how we use verbal humiliation.  It is the difference between being just A slut and being MY slut.  It is going to those dreaded places that perhaps before were truly negative or a place of rejection except at the far end of the tunnel is someone who loves you for going there for them.


SimplyMichael...

That's beautiful, thank you.
I've not had good expriences with verbal humiliation. Physical, yes...because it makes me step out of my comfort zone and strive to please. Verbal cuts to my core...and in my experience, not a good way.  I'm just trying to find the positive in some of the things I always seen as hard limits and this is one of them.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 6:53:22 AM   
OttersSwim


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Status: offline 		I have recently re-discovered the joy of dirty talk.  My history includes two people who would make me say things - affirmations of who they wanted me to be for them, what they wanted me to do for them, and admission of what I liked.

My Lady and I have begun doing this as well and...somehow...dunno why...it works for me.  Telling Her that "I am her slut" (and other things... ) makes me feel more submissive, more connected, and contributes to a positive experience for both of us.


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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 6:56:57 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		Carrie,

Get a copy of Midori's book "The Wild Side of Sex" as it has one of the best bits about how humiliation works, why it can go horribly wrong, and what to do to make it hot.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 7:10:44 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


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Status: offline 		Actually, it can if the verbal humilation is targeted towards some behavior that is CoDependent in nature.  However, using verbal humilation in this manner requires that your partner is faced with the truth.   You can also get the same results for change with a good old fashioned sit down talk (no verbal humilation) involved.

My views on how to deal with things and what tools or skills to use, is rather quickly changing in my mindset lately.

Verbal humilation being used for positive change, may or may not be effective with your partner.  Goes back to their personality and the issues they have and the source of those issues.  I have had Great success and Great Failure at using verbal humilation as a tool for positive change.  So, it all depends.  :-)

Then again, I've been in some very unhealthy relationships where the gloves could come off.  I've never been the kind of person to cause anybody any great harm.  I will say this, I did take somebody down with verbal humilation where they really needed an ass chewing because they were too stubborn about their own fucked behaviors.  Down to the point they were crying like a baby.  Later on to be Thanked for it.

I used to think I had a lot of things Mastered somewhat.  However if your partner is a mental Masochist, Verbal humilation won't even fucking effect them one damn bit.  You might as well shoot them with a nurf ball gun.  Also, even addressing the issues in a civil conversation might not even work.

Goes back to your partner.  All you are really doing is pointing out an issue, making them face it.  Once they see the issue for what it really is, does it touch them in a manner where they themselves want to change for the good?

Remember you have to hit a nerve, hit upon some truth for it to be effective.  Not everbody is emotional or mentally sensitive to verbal humilation.  In fact, some people have a bit of "tune out" protection mechanism.  Where they will totally tune somebody out who is on the verbal assault.  So they might just look at you like they were a Deer in the head lights and not be hearing a damn word you are saying.

So my answer is this, it all depends upon how your partner responds to it.  None the less, you have to address the issue itself in the middle of Verbal Humilation, just as much if you were in a heart to heart talk.  The goal is to make them face and see the ugly truth about their behavior or issues.  This is not Verbal Humilation for fun and games.  You can actually verbally humilate somebody with or without any name calling as well.  Many people have this notion that Humilation is about Name Calling this is not what it's all about.

Hope this somewhat helps you some.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 7:13:56 AM   
antipode


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Status: offline 		It is kind of an "old school" type of treatment, getting someone's psyche fired up by kicking them down, as a form of negative reinforcement. I seem to recall from psychiatric literature that it has been found not to be an effective tool, because it is hard to establish its effect. There is a percentile chance that one would push a person into depression, unless one is extremely skilled, which requires training and experience.

There is the risk of creating resentment, which has a really long shelf life.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 7:19:00 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

It is kind of an "old school" type of treatment, getting someone's psyche fired up by kicking them down, as a form of negative reinforcement. I seem to recall from psychiatric literature that it has been found not to be an effective tool, because it is hard to establish its effect. There is a percentile chance that one would push a person into depression, unless one is extremely skilled, which requires training and experience.

There is the risk of creating resentment, which has a really long shelf life.



I totally agree with everything antipode has posted here.  In fact, this is why I even mentioned the part about not using name calling in the process.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 8:24:50 AM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2

You can actually verbally humilate somebody with or without any name calling as well.  Many people have this notion that Humilation is about Name Calling this is not what it's all about.



This is the kind of humiliation I was refering to. I actually find name-calling to more annoying than anything.  It's when they use words that imply "I'm hurting you for your own good" that I wonder about.  I agree, you need to really know your partner and understand the risk of resentment and depression.

Thanks for explaining something that, while it may seem simple to some...isn't always clear for others. 

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 8:26:50 AM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Carrie,

Get a copy of Midori's book "The Wild Side of Sex" as it has one of the best bits about how humiliation works, why it can go horribly wrong, and what to do to make it hot.


SimplyMichael...

Thanks, I looked at the review on her blog (google is my friend) and it sounds like a great read. Amazon...here I come.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 8:28:47 AM   
SailingBum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO


This is the kind of humiliation I was refering to. I actually find name-calling to more annoying than anything.  It's when they use words that imply "I'm hurting you for your own good" that I wonder about.  I agree, you need to really know your partner and understand the risk of resentment and depression.

Thanks for explaining something that, while it may seem simple to some...isn't always clear for others. 


LoL  Never heard that line before.

It's a sick world and I'm a happy man.  BadOne

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 8:33:48 AM   
VampiresLair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

Can verbal humiliation be used as a tool to "build up" a person?  
If someone has experience with this, on either side, please explain. 


Verbal humiliation can be used as almost a challenge, really, to get the positive results you want as well.
Obviously, you need to know this will work with the partner you have.
For me, its usually based around making a male look "pretty". They have to go against their nature to do what I want, and they I repetitively tell them what a good job they have done being my pretty little pet. Its positive and humiliating, and they have done well by placing themselves in that situation.

DV





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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 8:54:47 AM   
ProlificNeeds


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Status: offline 		I'm one of those people that is particularly sensitive and adverse to the wrong kind of humiliation. Best thing to keep in mind is the same tactics do not net the same results in different people.

I have had instances of humiliation, in sexual context, that actually leave me feeling very good afterwards and rather silly for having been ashamed at the time. I guess those count as 'building up'?

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 9:27:47 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Can verbal humiliation be used as a tool to "build up" a person?
If someone has experience with this, on either side, please explain.

Things said which are "humiliating" often are a pathway to self-esteem. Marine Corps Drill Instructors are masters of the art of "positive" humiliation.

If, within the words that embarrass and humiliate, one focuses on an action and not the person, and reminds the person that they are held to a higher standard, that they are capable of meeting that standard, that the change sought is not a change of the person but a change of the choice made--such words can easily inspire a person towards excellence.

There is the shame of not measuring up to one's potential, and the shame of believing one has no potential. The first raises a person up, while the second tears a person down.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 9:37:29 AM   
Jeptha


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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

.... It is going to those dreaded places that perhaps before were truly negative or a place of rejection except at the far end of the tunnel is someone who loves you for going there for them.

I think that is nicely put.

It could be that a bit of exploring those places of insecurity and then not only living through it, but being supported and loved afterward (and all throughout, really) renders those insecurities a little less frightening.
You might realize that maybe there really isn't quite that much to be frightened of.

It could be some kind of practice at getting around some of the ego's defensiveness, even if just a little, that could let the ego relax a little and not be so caught up in maintaining that defensiveness.
Like a trust exercise, in other words.

Those are just some possibilities I'm throwing out there as a kind of conjecture.
As has been noted previously, humiliation is not a "one size fits all" kind of thing.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 10:46:38 AM   
SailingBum


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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

Can verbal humiliation be used as a tool to "build up" a person?  
If someone has experience with this, on either side, please explain. 

*I did do a search on this and found many threads on humiliation and one on verbal but no real answer on how to use it for positive results.







The short answer is no and th elong answer is no.  The concepts are opposed to each other.  Spin anyway you like black is still black and white is still white

BadOne

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 10:49:21 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

The short answer is no and th elong answer is no. The concepts are opposed to each other.

Actually, the short answer is "yes" and the long answer is "yes, since building self-esteem requires a careful choice of words anyway".

Guilt and shame are two of the strongest motivating forces in the human psyche.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 10:55:00 AM   
JustDarkness


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Status: offline 		I prefer myself to just say something positive when something possitive happened. Or say it is wrong when it is wrong.
I am not a shrink.., no clue how I would know when humiliation makes some one grow or not.

Humiliation..I do just for fun :P

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 11/4/2008 10:57:46 AM >

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 10:57:03 AM   
SailingBum


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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


Things said which are "humiliating" often are a pathway to self-esteem. Marine Corps Drill Instructors are masters of the art of "positive" humiliation.



Huh?  I was in the miltary.  I for one would like to know how calling someone a "dumb fucking maggot" or "lower than pond scum"  builds esteem?  The "general motive" in basic training is to beat you down into submission so you obey everyone lol.  Later on in the training is where the esteem building takes place confindence courses and the like.

BadOne

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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RE: Positive Verbal Humiliation? - 11/4/2008 10:59:18 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

The short answer is no and th elong answer is no. The concepts are opposed to each other.

Actually, the short answer is "yes" and the long answer is "yes, since building self-esteem requires a careful choice of words anyway".

Guilt and shame are two of the strongest motivating forces in the human psyche.


Gonna have to call you on this one.  Hunger and sex are the top 2 ....look it up

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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