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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/9/2008 3:24:31 PM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Submissives--  could you submit to someone who is not your intellectual equal-or-superior?   And how do you define it?  What components matter to you, and how do you deal with the ones where you are ahead of the game?


I think I'd have a hard time being with someone who I viewed as unintelligent.  It would annoy me.  There has to be more than just intelligence though.  Someone who is college educated and book smart, but has no personality or social skills is just as unappealing.  I prefer someone educated, successful, confident, life smart.  The whole package.  The "life smart" aspect tends to rank right up there with intelligence to me.

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 11/9/2008 3:25:18 PM >

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/9/2008 3:47:19 PM   
sravaka


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Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you, Jeptha.

I hesitate to reply to this because by now I regret having started this thread quite thoroughly and would rather like to see it die and go away.  But on the other hand, it has been quite helpful, even if that help has in many cases involved a really potent 'n' painful visit from the clue-by-4.

I'm definitely convinced by now that "overeducated" is an ill-advised word choice.  A better way to explain might be to say that I have some very obscure interests that I'm very passionate about, that I spent many years studying and that I still spend a lot of time involved with.  I think I am fairly capable of explaining it  (hell, i teach it)  but, only to people who, as you suggest, are at least slightly inclined to be interested in the first place.   And I struggle a bit sometimes with how obscure passions and the sometimes unconventional life-choices that accompany them affect my love life.

I don't need a partner who shares the substance of the interest...  but I do have a problem imagining myself with someone who is  unsympathetic to having consuming academic interests in the first place, who just finds it weird or trivial (and that definitely happens sometimes). 

So, confronted by this friend of mine saying that I need to care less about whether I can talk about things that are a bit out there with a prospective partner, and focus more on potential D/s connectedness... I wanted to explore the question.  I wanted to think about the many kinds of intelligence (plenty of which, as I said in the OP, I don't claim to have all that much of) that come into play in workable, satisfying connections.  I wanted to think about how or if these intelligences might matter or not matter specifically in D/s relationships, whether overall balance or imbalance is desirable and how various scenarios might play out.  I already knew that book learning and education matter very little, despite how the OP came off.   I apologize sincerely to anyone I offended. 

(I refuse, however, to entertain lectures on egotism from anyone who capitalizes her own non-nominative first person pronouns.)

StrongSpirit, I do agree that there are plenty of intelligent people around...  there are large numbers of extremely astute and thoughtful people right here on the boards, and it's always a joy to learn from or be made to think by them.  It just becomes difficult when you eliminate everyone who's not looking, and factor in geography, barking up the same tree D/s-wise, and everything else-- as Rover said upthread somewhere, the pool ends up being fairly small.   Your perspective also tends to get skewed when you're distracted by the rampant idiocy out there in the personals and in your cmail.

Anyway, many thanks to all who responded... including those who dispensed a needed knock upside the head.

sravaka








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Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/9/2008 4:19:25 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I have to be able to talk to him as an equal if I'm going to submit to him.  If I have to dumb things down, I don't see it working.  Beyond that, I don't worry much about how smart someone is before interacting with them.  I remember years ago a friend of mine gently explained to me that I would have a hard time finding a mate because I was so smart.  Apparantly, by simple virtue of my intelligence, I had eliminated nearly all potentials.

I've made it a habit to avoid guys who make a big deal about how smart I am.    Can't live on smart alone and I really don't like the book stuff.  Would rather be scrubbing floors or something like that.  I have too much energy to be sitting still reading and writing--that kind of stuff makes me want to pull my hair out.  But, I am intelligent and know it.  I figure I have the smart thing covered so my partner can be other things I'm not so good at.  Division of labor.  They have to be interesting.  And, have a sense of humor.  As near as I can tell, a person's true intelligence shows up in their sense of humor.  If they get the joke, they're good.
Sir gets the joke.

God damn!!!  Could I be anymore fragmented today?




< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 11/9/2008 4:32:21 PM >

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/10/2008 12:40:09 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		Beeing smart is not something you advertise I think to hurt others..and make them feel bad. If your partner knows that...then it should be fine.
And if you are smart...don't always look down on others people idea's. There are so many ways to solve issues...'let every one do it their way....even if it might not be the best.
You always can help in the end.

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/10/2008 11:58:02 AM   
Jeptha


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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I hesitate to reply to this because by now I regret having started this thread quite thoroughly and would rather like to see it die and go away. But on the other hand, it has been quite helpful, even if that help has in many cases involved a really potent 'n' painful visit from the clue-by-4....

Aww, don't take it that way! Almost anything worth posting means you're going to be in for at least a slight pummeling, you know. The rhetorical style these days, on the net, in politics and elsewhere in general, is for dialogue and debate to take on a certain exaggerated marshal aspect, and the trend is towards bombast, the florid, and overstatement. Think of a high school debate team stranded on a desert island.
It was a good post, a thoughtful post, and that's always welcome here (I will venture to say).

About the term "over-educated" ; it's not necessarily a bad term in and of itself, but I think some of us have varying experience brushing up against that phrase, and some negative associations as a result. My first association is with young people fresh out of school who regard their education as an investment they've made from which they now feel entitled to an immediate return in terms of salary and/or other considerations, without basis on performance or experience.
quote:


...I don't need a partner who shares the substance of the interest... but I do have a problem imagining myself with someone who is unsympathetic to having consuming academic interests in the first place, who just finds it weird or trivial (and that definitely happens sometimes).
Yup, I would say that that would be somebody with whom you are incompatible....most likely! I add the qualifier there because, sometimes you never know ... It's an interesting hypothetical situation ~ for instance, I have a friend who's deeply into the "gaming" world. It seems kind of trivial to me, but I realize that's his absorbing pastime, and sometimes I'll chat with him to see what he's doing and what he gets out of it. I am a rockhound. It's an absorbing pastime for me. I love going out in the desert and traipsing around for days. I show some people what I find, but I try not to bore them with the details.
Could it be similar with a more intellectual pursuit?
~Is that more than an "absorbing pastime", when looked at in the "big picture" sense?
It could be if what you are learning affects every aspect of how you see and relate to the world. But even then, it might just be one philosophical viewpoint out of many that are possible.

I could imagine the possibility of dating someone with esoteric intellectual interests as being similar to hearing about your partner's day at work; it's not always necessary to glean every detail that their job entails, but you get how they are feeling in regard to what they are doing.

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/10/2008 12:14:04 PM   
gypsygrl


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quote:

Think of a high school debate team stranded on a desert island.


lmao

Now, theres a version of hell that hasn't yet been exploited by literary folk!

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/10/2008 12:39:57 PM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

quote:

Think of a high school debate team stranded on a desert island.


lmao

Now, theres a version of hell that hasn't yet been exploited by literary folk!


hahaha :D

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/10/2008 10:22:00 PM   
abuddingdom


Posts: 158
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline 		There's a quote which I've loved for decades : "Communication is only possible between equals". It's by Robert Anton Wilson, who's writing I was quite enamored of back in the 70's(then I revisited him while recovering from a back injury about 12 years ago, along with one of his pals Ken Kesey, also JD Salinger&Ayn Rand. Many would say that its fortunate that I recovered). I happen to believe that it's true, though  the people can  be more or less  intellectually equal  but in vastly different ways. We spend lots of time talking about a variety of subjects & likely 75% of the time one of us is much more knowledgeble re the subject at hand than is the other.  

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/10/2008 10:24:06 PM   
abuddingdom


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Status: offline 		hmmm  - that was my first CM chat post. Can someone be kind enough to tell me how to get that vanilla ice cream cone off there? It simply has to go.........

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/11/2008 12:19:51 AM   
WestBaySlave


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Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka
Submissives--  could you submit to someone who is not your intellectual equal-or-superior?   And how do you define it?  What components matter to you, and how do you deal with the ones where you are ahead of the game?


I don't think of myself as particularly smart, but wow, how often do I find myself, in my search for a master, wondering if I put out some kind of pheremone out that attracts the sub-literate?

My standards have less to do with degrees and qualifications, and more to do with the ability to communicate and comprehend.

Ultimately I seek someone to control my life . I want someone fully capable of doing that, and doing that well. Total control means total responsibility on their part, and I don't want an idiot at the steering wheel.

A quick thinker is an excellent quality in a dominant, from my standpoint. You don't have to be as smart as me, but you have to be able to keep up with me if you want to own me.

A bit of knowledge about the world is desirable, but intelligence is more important than education to me.













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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/11/2008 12:42:32 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Thank you, Jeptha.

I hesitate to reply to this because by now I regret having started this thread quite thoroughly and would rather like to see it die and go away.  But on the other hand, it has been quite helpful, even if that help has in many cases involved a really potent 'n' painful visit from the clue-by-4.

<snip>
( I refuse, however, to entertain lectures on egotism from anyone who capitalizes her own non-nominative first person pronouns.)

<snip>

Anyway, many thanks to all who responded... including those who dispensed a needed knock upside the head.

sravaka


If those five capital letters in the earlier response make the opinion any less true for you, I have no issue with that.  Take what you need and leave the rest.


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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/11/2008 1:41:14 AM   
myotherself


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From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		~fr~

All of my friends and past partners have had similar intelligence to mine.  The reason they are/were friends is because their intelligence complemented mine.  I have a university education, but many of my friends don't.  But that doesn't mean to say they aren't intelligent, they just haven't had the same opportunities or desires to embrace academia in the same way I did.

I would never embrace or dismiss a friendship or relationship purely on academic records.  If we can hold an intelligent conversation about the world, if they can show an interest in what is going on around them, then we are equals and we have the first part of the friendship equation sorted.

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/11/2008 1:48:59 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LydiaSciKitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: LydiaSciKitten

Therefore, my conclusion is that one can have some casual play with anyone, and even a less serious relationship does not require intellectual domination. But, in my opinion, anything nearing love or TPE in D/s can be fully enjoyed only if the submissive can feel the joy of being intellectually Dominated as well as the rest. Or else the use of the submissive by the Dominant will include actual mental manipulation, but a cheap copy of it, and to me the ability to, up to a point, mentally control is essential for a true relationship.


Actually... your education should tell you that given the extremely small sample you are working with, your conclusion should be that YOU are unable to have a TPE without being mentally overpowered by your dominant. To make a broader statement you need a larger sample.

I personally have no need for being mentally overpowered. Possibly because it's never happened and possibly because I'd much rather have a mental give and take. I don't need someone to be smarter than me to obey them, I just don't feel "Haha, I'm smarter I'm going to run circles around you because I can."


I guess you are right. I am sorry for having generalised beyond myself without the information required to do so. I just find that I, and some other people I know, have a very hard time not taking advantage of a gap in intellect, and taking advantage of your Dom in anyway, to please yourself, is just disgusting. I admire people who can do so, but resist the temptation, and therefore can engage in proper D/s without mentally topping from the bottom even a little bit.
On the other hand many posts in this thread seem to point to the fact that many agree with my point of view, and many submissives find greater fulfillment in having a Dominant that is, at the very least, their intellectual equal.


While I'll grant there are people who agree, the people who post on a thread hardly compose an unbiased sample. One could easily say "Many seem to prefer"  but to call it essential for a "true relationship" is quite flawed.

Personally, I always find statements, such as I highlighted above, very interesting. Must the dominant be better than you at everything in order for you to resist taking advantage of them? Would you take their money if they were, as some very intelligent people are, scatterbrained and hence wouldn't notice?

For the record: I have no problem with personal relationship preferences. One prefers what they prefer. Just tossing it out there...

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/11/2008 1:50:11 AM >

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/11/2008 7:44:43 AM   
MercTech


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Status: offline 		I seek intelligent conversation over dinner.  All else is serendipity.
Since I quit "looking for a relationship" and just sought interesting conversation, I have found more that I would like to have as part of my life than I ever found before that.

But, don't make the mistake of equating education with intelligence.  There are some fantastically brilliant people out there that never had the financial opportunity for higher education. (Thinking of an IQ 169 person who could only afford enough school for an A.S. degree )   Don't forget that PhD can also stand for "piled higher and deeper".  I'm reminded of the Brit term "boffin" as a good word for it.  The definition I was given is a bit different from what Wikipedia has, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boffin .  Boffin: A person so highly trained in one area they are totally incompetant in most other areas.  i.e. my sophmore chemistry professor.. the copying machine would explode if he only walked by and he often put on a differnt shoe on the left and right feet. (wing tip and penny loafer mixed)  Yet, he had two doctoral degrees and was the campus sponsor of the Mensa group.

Stefan

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/11/2008 7:52:24 AM   
gypsygrl


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Status: offline 		It goes away after you post 25 times, Sir.

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RE: smarts and domliness/subliness - 11/11/2008 10:47:55 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: LydiaSciKitten

I guess you are right. I am sorry for having generalised beyond myself without the information required to do so. I just find that I, and some other people I know, have a very hard time not taking advantage of a gap in intellect, and taking advantage of your Dom in anyway, to please yourself, is just disgusting. I admire people who can do so, but resist the temptation, and therefore can engage in proper D/s without mentally topping from the bottom even a little bit.

Personally, I always find statements, such as I highlighted above, very interesting. Must the dominant be better than you at everything in order for you to resist taking advantage of them? Would you take their money if they were, as some very intelligent people are, scatterbrained and hence wouldn't notice?


I would hope it's not *that* kind of "taking advantage of"!! I'm pretty sure LydiaSciKitten was referring to the psychological-interplay aspects of the relationship, only.
(By the way, what is she referring to, exactly? I don't think that is very clear.)

But still, as I mentioned elsewhere, I'd consider that useful information *if she shared what she was doing*. That would be a real service.

I'm a pretty slow processor, and I recall telling a former partner how that worked; how to introduce me to an idea, allow it to simmer, tend it a little bit, etc., and then maybe two weeks hence I'd introduce the idea, or some variation of it, as if it were my own...!
I'm kind of just joking - I'm not completely oblivious as to where my influences come from.
But it can take me a while to really get my mind around some new things.

My partner had more experience than I did at the time, and she was more knowledgeable. I certainly would not consider her sharing those things with me as taking advantage of me. And why would I ignore that valuable resource?

In a lot of ways, what I'm thinking of is no different then what goes on in any type of relationship - people will generally reward behavior that is positive in their eyes and not reward behavior that they perceive as negative.

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