Subs who offer up their own rules

Subs who offer up their own rules (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress

Message

AAkasha -> Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 9:57:06 AM)
When you are in the early stages of flirtation or moving from vanilla to kink with a man, if he "helpfully" offers up rules in the form of innocent protocol questions, do you indulge him in those rules because you can tell he wants or needs those rules for his own satisfaction and nurturing, or do you dismiss any offers for protocol if they were merely 'helpful suggestions' or 'innocent clarification'? For example, he asks, "Do you want me to call you Mistress now?" or "Does this mean I can no longer orgasm without your permission, ma'am" (hopeful tone), or "Do I need to refer to my privates as your property now?" or "Shouldn't I be kneeling when I talk to you?" -- etc, you know what I mean. In the past, I would get fairly impatient, and just state that I'd be clear about any rules, and let him know. Otherwise, any rule he "suggested" and then I just said "ok" simply becomes more meaningless; in time, it became clear that SOME men (not all) just had this fantasy which included being made to do all these things. Other subs, though, clearly were just trying not to do something wrong. It's a shame to toss them out with the wankers. In other situations, I realized that some men just really responded better/were positively impacted by the structures they offered to me. However, it just does nothing for my femdom side - literally, nothing - to "sign off on" suggested protocol. In fact, it generally means I have to work hard to remember the rules since I didn't initiate them anyway, and then the sub ends up sulking later when I didn't enforce rules I never put in place anyway. For some time, I refused to use ANY kind of power exchange protocol of this nature for that reason. I'm just revisiting it, because I have a man I'm interested in who is starting to do this, and I am not sure how I feel about it. Akasha

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 10:03:39 AM)
This kind of thing really grinds my gears. I am very VERY up front about who I am and what I am like, and when someone tries to drop those heavy hints, I get turned off. I listen carefully to potentials, and remember the kinds of things that they respond to, but I set up the things that I can remember, and that please me. The things that I am not interested in get set aside for future use in a scene, or for a high protocol afternoon, or some similar entertainment.

bamabbwsub -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 10:08:42 AM)
AAkasha, I'm not a Domme, but I'm an intelligent and often stubborn submissive. I've always had more respect for a Dom/Domme who stated right away that they were in charge. Perhaps when this man starts asking questions and/or making suggestions, you should raise an imperious brow and ask him if he is trying to make the rules. You might be able to judge from his response whether you're just wanker fodder for him, or if he is trying to feel his way around your rules. Just my .02.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 10:18:32 AM)
I enjoy hearing about a man's fantasies and ideas. But there is never any automatic connection between these "information sessions" and what will happen in play, unless I think the fantasy is hot or the idea is a good one. I get pleasure and I can deepen the relationship with the intimacy of sharing, and the vulnerability that accompanies the act of offering up these very private thoughts to me. And then perhaps later I might get a little extra pleasure by putting a nasty twist on some element of an old familiar fantasy. Nothing makes it more obvious that I am in control than making these threadbare fantasies new, unfamiliar and scary-sexy in some way that he would never have imagined. Fun stuff. [sm=evil.gif]

Boondoggle -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 10:31:33 AM)
I agree with bamabbwsub's post pretty much entirely: I'm also not a Domina, but am intelligent, oft stubborn, and submissive. I, too, would suggest you 'lay down the law,' as it were, and in no uncertain terms, let him know these suggestions irk you. I would also suggest that when discussing the matter, tell him you realize he wants something more from you and make him confront his desires and express them openly to you. Personally, I'm am decidedly a fan of these sorts of rules, but at some point I recognized that instead of trying to prompt for things I want, it usually works better to first understand just what it is I desire, and then courteously inform of my desires.

undergroundsea -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 10:56:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama But there is never any automatic connection between these "information sessions" and what will happen in play, unless I think the fantasy is hot or the idea is a good one. I favor this approach. The response is not based on where the idea came from, but instead on whether an idea is a good one that contributes to the D/s dynamic. As for how appropriate or not it is for a sub to make such suggestions, I recognize that there is a grey area and there can be scenarios that could be inappropriate or annoying. Assuming genuine intentions, such behavior could be indicative of need for more communication about relationship expectations and intensity, and D/s rituals to sustain the feeling of the roles. Cheers, Sea

PeonForHer -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 11:14:41 AM)
Nothing makes it more obvious that I am in control than making these threadbare fantasies new, unfamiliar and scary-sexy in some way that he would never have imagined. Notwithstanding that this might happen only occasionally, it's still one of the major reasons why a sub would seek out a real life domme rather than stick with his fantasies, I'd have thought.

MsBriarRose -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 12:10:07 PM)
I have a simple policy with new pets. You have to follow my rules. I will probably not tell you what they are, you willl have to be patient and find out. The good news is I will not fault you the FIRST time you make a mistake, because that is the time you find out about the rule.Over questioning me is trying to determine my bnehaviour and lock me into a mode of behaviour. This will not be tolerated. There is another way to look at this. My boy asks permission before using the bathroom. It is one of the ways his submission manifests. I did not request it, and it would not be something I would normally ask. I allow him to offer this to me as a tribute. I do not police it, I would say nothing if he failed. But now that he has offered it to me it also gives me a way to measure his continued devotion. If you find yourself with a sub who really needs to get a handle on what you want, let them know they may offer one form of special tribute (subject to approval of course) and that no other suggestions would be welcome.

Venatrix -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 12:20:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus This kind of thing really grinds my gears. I am very VERY up front about who I am and what I am like, and when someone tries to drop those heavy hints, I get turned off. Same here. When I'm ready to move from vanilla to d/s, he'll know. The more a sub tries to push it, the more likely I'll lose interest.

Usako -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 12:46:05 PM)
[sm=agree.gif] I get highly annoyed when a guy tries to push his fantasies on me. If he is so submissive and wanting to please me then he should be content with the pace I want to go at with things.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 12:58:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsBriarRose My boy asks permission before using the bathroom. It is one of the ways his submission manifests. I did not request it, and it would not be something I would normally ask. I allow him to offer this to me as a tribute. I do not police it, I would say nothing if he failed. But now that he has offered it to me it also gives me a way to measure his continued devotion. I handle that type of situation in more or less the same way. It doesn't have to rev my motor if it makes her happy. As long as it doesn't annoy me, I'll allow it. If it does annoy me, I'll put my foot down and end it.

SageFemmexx -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 1:02:53 PM)
I hate the demands for play. I get --let's hurry up and meet so we can go play. What? Nothing turns me off faster than the assumption I am an instant domme and willing to play on demand. Alot of these subs are only interested in themselves. Nevermind anyone else. It is obvious they are topping from the bottom. Sage.

Tantriqu -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 1:18:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha When you are in the early stages of flirtation or moving from vanilla to kink with a man, if he "helpfully" offers up rules in the form of innocent protocol questions, do you indulge him in those rules because you can tell he wants or needs those rules for his own satisfaction and nurturing, or do you dismiss any offers for protocol if they were merely 'helpful suggestions' or 'innocent clarification'? I ask myself one question: does his request please me? If I find it arousing and the question might be intended to give me pleasure, I give him permission. If it makes me say, 'Goodbye, wide-on' and only my suspicions are aroused, he's on his way to the first of three strikes I give each would-be pup.

ElanSubdued -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 3:28:17 PM)
ShaktiSama and undergroundsea, It surprises me not that you expressed views I would have myself. For posterity, I quote you both. quote: ShaktiSama: I enjoy hearing about a man's fantasies and ideas. But there is never any automatic connection between these "information sessions" and what will happen in play, unless I think the fantasy is hot or the idea is a good one. I get pleasure and I can deepen the relationship with the intimacy of sharing, and the vulnerability that accompanies the act of offering up these very private thoughts to me. And then perhaps later I might get a little extra pleasure by putting a nasty twist on some element of an old familiar fantasy. Nothing makes it more obvious that I am in control than making these threadbare fantasies new, unfamiliar and scary-sexy in some way that he would never have imagined. undergroundsea: I favor this approach. The response is not based on where the idea came from, but instead on whether an idea is a good one that contributes to the D/s dynamic. As for how appropriate or not it is for a sub to make such suggestions, I recognize that there is a grey area and there can be scenarios that could be inappropriate or annoying. Assuming genuine intentions, such behavior could be indicative of need for more communication about relationship expectations and intensity, and D/s rituals to sustain the feeling of the roles. Elan.

AAkasha -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 3:36:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued ShaktiSama and undergroundsea, It surprises me not that you expressed views I would have myself. For posterity, I quote you both. quote: ShaktiSama: I enjoy hearing about a man's fantasies and ideas. But there is never any automatic connection between these "information sessions" and what will happen in play, unless I think the fantasy is hot or the idea is a good one. I get pleasure and I can deepen the relationship with the intimacy of sharing, and the vulnerability that accompanies the act of offering up these very private thoughts to me. And then perhaps later I might get a little extra pleasure by putting a nasty twist on some element of an old familiar fantasy. Nothing makes it more obvious that I am in control than making these threadbare fantasies new, unfamiliar and scary-sexy in some way that he would never have imagined. undergroundsea: I favor this approach. The response is not based on where the idea came from, but instead on whether an idea is a good one that contributes to the D/s dynamic. As for how appropriate or not it is for a sub to make such suggestions, I recognize that there is a grey area and there can be scenarios that could be inappropriate or annoying. Assuming genuine intentions, such behavior could be indicative of need for more communication about relationship expectations and intensity, and D/s rituals to sustain the feeling of the roles. Elan. The post wasn't about the discussion of desires and fantasies, which I am all in favor of. It's about a submissive specifically asking if a rule should be in place, rather than waiting for the femdom to make the rules. In addition to the examples I gave in the first post, I'll add things like "I took the liberty of inserting a butt plug before emailing you to show my submission," or showing up to a first date/coffee in panties and letting the lady know he did it not because he was told, but because he assumed she would like it or those were the rules. Akasha

ElanSubdued -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 4:15:15 PM)
Akasha, Relationships are inherently complex because people themselves are complex. Likewise, patterns of behaviour can become tainted from previous, unpleasant experiences. (i.e. I'm talking about triggers here. ) This may be what is happening with your new "man". If this man's questions are making you feel coerced, I suggest talking to him about this. Even if you're not sure how you feel, you can still say "I'm not sure how I feel about something, but I'd like to share some thoughts with you". If this man is someone you like and feel a connection with, it's probably worth having this conversation. Perhaps the two of you are simply misinterpreting each other's styles? quote: The post wasn't about the discussion of desires and fantasies, which I am all in favor of. It's about a submissive specifically asking if a rule should be in place, rather than waiting for the femdom to make the rules. In addition to the examples I gave in the first post, I'll add things like "I took the liberty of inserting a butt plug before emailing you to show my submission," or showing up to a first date/coffee in panties and letting the lady know he did it not because he was told, but because he assumed she would like it or those were the rules. If these further examples are indicative of what you were talking about initially, this seems manipulative. Were I in your position, this would most certainly short-circuit my dominance and screw up the natural flow of power and chemistry. In other words, I would not like it one bit. The question is, do you think this is actually manipulative behaviour or just an overzealous, misguided excitement? For myself, were I the dominant, with the right person, I'd be willing to correct the later whereas the former would be such a turn-off that I'd want to quickly wash my hands of the situation. Only you can answer this question because you know the man and we don't. Could it be that this man isn't aware he is making you feel objectified and uncomfortable? Once you communicate, you'll hopefully get at the bottom of this problem and from there you can decide what to do. I don't think it's a bad thing to share fantasies and desires in an appropriate way and at the right time. The sort of behaviour you're describing here (though) would irk me in a big way. For me, if I felt enough sincerity and chemistry, I'd communicate, get feedback, correct, express future expectations, gain the agreement and understanding of my charge, and get the reins back in my hands. People make mistakes. If this is an honest mistake, I'd correct it and move forwards. If this is just nasty, wanker-ish, manipulative behaviour and you're not in the mood to deal with it, I'm sure you know what to do. :-) Elan.

ElanSubdued -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 4:20:43 PM)
Boondoggle quote: I agree with bamabbwsub's post pretty much entirely: I'm also not a Domina, but am intelligent, oft stubborn, and submissive. I, too, would suggest you 'lay down the law,' as it were, and in no uncertain terms, let him know these suggestions irk you. I would also suggest that when discussing the matter, tell him you realize he wants something more from you and make him confront his desires and express them openly to you. Personally, I'm am decidedly a fan of these sorts of rules, but at some point I recognized that instead of trying to prompt for things I want, it usually works better to first understand just what it is I desire, and then courteously inform of my desires. The problem with dogmatically "laying down the law" is that all participants of a relationship have needs and desires. There is a difference between using bad, nagging behaviour to manipulate for what you want versus respectfully communicating desires. When a submissive communicates a desire to their dominant, it doesn't necessarily mean they expect this delivered upon. Rather, in many cases it is simply, as Shakti pointed out, communicating information. The dominant can chose to do whatever they wish with this information. Now sure, if a submissive is continuously making "suggestions", I can see how this would get old quickly. I don't see how an appropriate, self-initiated "would you like this" or "I like such-and-such" is harmful to a relationship and indeed, the lack of this would seem very harmful indeed. It's nice to do the engaging, but it's also nice (sometimes) to be engaged. Elan.

ElanSubdued -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 4:22:32 PM)
MsBriarRose, quote: I have a simple policy with new pets. You have to follow my rules. I will probably not tell you what they are, you willl have to be patient and find out. The good news is I will not fault you the FIRST time you make a mistake, because that is the time you find out about the rule. Over questioning me is trying to determine my bnehaviour and lock me into a mode of behaviour. This will not be tolerated. I prefer a more proactive (versus reactive) approach because the later seems like a set-up for failure. I'd much rather my domme communicate her desires and rules rather than waiting for me to falter from unknown expectations. quote: My boy asks permission before using the bathroom. It is one of the ways his submission manifests. I did not request it, and it would not be something I would normally ask. I allow him to offer this to me as a tribute. I do not police it, I would say nothing if he failed. But now that he has offered it to me it also gives me a way to measure his continued devotion. Again, it seems like you're possibly setting yourself and your boy up for failure. If your boy is unaware you're using his self-initiated bathroom protocol as a "devotion metric", he may behave in ways that you misunderstand. I understand what you mean about appreciating acts of courtesy and allegiance, especially those you didn't ask for. However, I think it is potentially a mistake to entrench these in further expectations/protocols that you've not discussed. Doing this seems almost guaranteed to bring misunderstandings and disappointment at some point. Elan.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 4:39:43 PM)
~FR~ I completely understand where Aakasha is coming from on this. For Me it is really less about what the boy is doing and more about the fact that the boy is instituting the little thrills that make him feel submissive. Here is the rub: They often get petulant if I am not thrilled that they are wearing those panties (or crawling into the room or having to ask permission to use the toilet, yada, yada, yada) "for Me". It's not for Me! It's for them. And if they need to wear those panties in order to feel submissive, whether to Me or anybody, it is for them. It also does not make My heart soar to know that they will not feel submissive unless these little protocols are in effect. I want a boy to be submissive to Me because it is Me. Not because I am making him wear panties under his suit or jeans. I have no problem with things a boys wants and enjoys. I have a problem with the attempt to force Me to participate in something I really don't care about one way or the other. I have My rules. Follow them and we will get along fine. If you need more, do it for yourself, with My approval, of course, but don't get upset if I am not checking to make sure you have those panties on. Just one Domina's take on this very common conundrum.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/9/2008 6:03:16 PM)
i've met married men who enjoy being dominated by a woman however they wanted to control how they're to be dominated. though it was more of a fantasy than kink, what would be the point of dominating them if they're going to come with their own set of rules. i've met some male submissives (here, on yahoo IM and group i mod) who offer themselves as my slave ...instantly calling me Mistress yet come with a rules they want me to follow. those are the types i run like hell away from because there's no connection or chemistry with them.

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875