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ElanSubdued -> RE: Subs who offer up their own rules (11/11/2008 11:34:33 PM)
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undergroundsea,
quote:
I know I said I would let Elan answer this question. But since I have been expressing views he would himself, I figure it would be just the same if I went ahead and did it ;-)
Evidently I've been wondrously prolific today without having so much as lifted a finger. I'm almost tempted to tag you out of the ring, but you're having so much fun and you're making me look damn good. So by all means Sir Sea, please continue as my surrogate wordsmith.
A few comments though...
(You just knew that was coming didn't you? :-)
After reading your thoughts, the notion that all partners contribute to the D/s dynamic is what remains most strongly in my mind. Sure, the way people do this may be through rituals, protocols, service, play, acts of kindness, etc. To me, these are (pardon the geek speak) details of implementation - important certainly, but not the central idea. Abstracting, the key take-away, in my view, is that each partner feeds the relationship, themselves, and their partner(s). When the exchange isn't mutual, D/s energy stumbles, and, as you pointed out, sometimes flows in only one direction. Worst case, the D/s energy stagnates entirely.
I think it's fairly important that dominants and submissives both initiate. This said, I think the context and appropriateness of behavior in a given context greatly effect how a submissive's actions are perceived. So, for example, had Akasha asked her new man to "surprise her" and he showed up announcing "I wore panties just for you", this feels more like a two-way exchange. Conversely, someone who suddenly announces, out of the blue, "I wore panties for you", especially without knowing whether this is something the domme likes, this feels more like a self-focused, one-way exchange and one that, frankly, I think most would find creepy during initial conversations. Context, trust, and communication all come into play as does chemistry and knowing when/how to seduce one another.
A while back I read a thread on here wherein a domme described how her boy "seduces her dominance". I wish I could remember who wrote this because I think it's brilliant and very much to the point. And indeed, just to get all egalitarian, the reverse is also true. Dominants seduce their partners too and in doing so bring out their submission. I'm not talking about forcing dominance or submission, but rather about creating an environment in which chemistry and D/s dynamics flourish - all partners very much contribute to this. Thus, the situation where you squatted and waited so that a woman could speak with you as was timely and comfortable for her doesn't seem like topping from the bottom. Rather, you initiated protocol that was courteous and that contributed to the D/s dynamic. I'd hope that if a domme had issue with this she would simply say "please don't do that; I prefer that you get my attention *this* way".
One-sided / one-way D/s is never comfortable for long. In fact, as a submissive, sooner or later, if I'm the one maintaining the BDSM dynamic, I start to feel that I'm the dominant. I mean, hey... at that point I'm leading the show and the focus is all about my desires as opposed to being about those of my domme and of "us". (Note, I'm not talking about situations where a domme is incapacitated and the submissive steps in to help out. This is part of the normal ebs and flows of any relationship.) I've been "guilty" of making suggestions and initiating rituals when I felt a lack of guidance from my domme. Sometimes this has resulted in a need to communicate and work through misunderstandings and other times it has ultimately indicated general incompatibility - our chemistry and communication simply wasn't working.
I apologize for these somewhat scattered paragraphs. It's the end of a long day and I need to sit down and turn my mind off for a while. :-)
Just before I go, I'll underline that Akasha pointed out she's not objecting to a submissive who initiates communication, shares fantasies, etc. Rather, she's talking about submissives who take things into their own hand early on in the getting to know you process. Are these men wankers or just mistaken? Are they Salvageable? I don't think there is any way to come up with a hard and fast rule, however, Shakti gave pretty good advice when she wrote:
quote:
SkaktiSama:
If you've decided that the guy is cute and/or sexy, and he's play-worthy material in other respects, let him make any given mistake once. When the mistake is made, stop things, explain exactly what has been done wrong, and why you don't want it done again. A man who really wants to please will be pretty mortified and agonized over every serious error. He won't want to screw up and he'll be happy to listen and obey if it helps him not to.
I'm not so sure I'd instantiate a "one-time only" clause for each type of infraction, but I agree that a man who is interested in a woman will do his best to apologize, correct mistakes he's made, not repeat the same mistakes again, and make sure the woman is happy. I'd say this is pretty good indication of a submissive's intent and sincerity. If the chemistry and attraction are there, and this level of communication and mutual willingness are there, such a man is probably worth giving a few "chances".
Thanks again for expanding upon "our" thoughts. :-) I absolutely agree about the value of these discussions. Like you, these discussions help me achieve greater understanding about a given topic and about my own feelings therein.
Elan.
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