RE: What say you, slave? (Full Version)

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newflowers -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 12:14:22 AM)

Gitta,

I do indeed understand the point and purpose of the original post. My response is statement and question of my understanding and/or misunderstanding of another's post. It is my opinion and a request for clarification.

newflowers



sweetsub0 -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 12:18:52 AM)

I have known many slaves within the lifestyle. I once met a Dom who married one sister and kept the other as a slave to his house. The Lady Astonias of New Orleans keeps a female slave for her some 3-5 male submissives to use so that they do not feel the urge to wander. This girl has assisted her in group sessions and resently made some sort of mistake that resulted in a minor injury to one of the Lady's subs, for this the girl tells me that the Lady took away her name. She lost her name, thats means that she can not be called upon until the Lady decides to give it back. yet this girl is one of the happiest girls i have ever met in this lifestyle. She has complete trust in her Domme and her place in the household.
I should only hope one day to have that kind of trust.



iwillserveu -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 2:16:59 AM)

Gitta,

Lady Beckeet asked what do you think (Esentially, M'Lady, I'm paraphrasing.) I told her from MY perspective. I'd use YOUR perspective but I'm not much into demonic possession.[:)] Yes, only slaves are mentioned in the quote as accepting limits. So do subs. Your point about it being for slaves only again is, what exactly?[:)] (In case you missed my point, in a free society slave and sub are the same thing.)

If you were insulted, sorry you feel that way.

Again, that is my opinion. I'd use yours but the question was for MY opinion and using YOURS would be dishonest.[:)].



LadyBeckett -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 7:19:23 AM)

quote:

Original: gitta

Is not a case of slave vs submissive, or one is better than the other, more a question of what a slave feels they are.


This is true, so let's stay on track. [;)]

Although, as an afterthought, I welcome any discussions of Gor as well. I'm in the process of reading it. Still on book one, and wouldn't be adverse to including discussion of that in this thread. For those who are interested in doing so.




MizSuz -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 8:32:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett

I've always been a very busy woman. I've heard of Gor, but it wasn't the lifestyle choice of my parents, nor anyone in my family, friends, or close associates. Now that I'm not quite as busy as I've been in the past, I've been hearing more and more reference to Gor, and slaves, and it has piqued my curiosity and fascinated me, as I said in the initial post. So much so, that I am currently reading the books of Gor, from the beginning. I say that, but I haven't actually started yet. I just received the first two today from a dear friend.

Do keep talking...I'm definitly reading as you do. [;)]



You don't need to read them all, Beckett. Read one, the rest are the same story. Even my exhusband the prolific reader, who had them all, said that he felt like he'd been blugeoned to death with the 'all women are meant to be slaves' crap after reading any of them (he could fly through one of those books in a couple hours). He had them all and was the sort to read books over and over - not because he liked them but because he'd run out of new material to read that was sitting around the house. He didn't read those Gor books much at all.

I read one or two and, to borrow from Lawrence, felt like I was bleeding from the eyes after I finished each.



LadyBeckett -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 8:55:25 AM)

Yanno, I finished book one, Suz, and started book two. I read the preface, and thought for a minute. Read the preface again, and decided to take my computer apart and clean it with q-tips and alcohol. I'll keep you posted. [;)]


Oh and iwill, that's one "e" and two "t's" [;)]



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 9:10:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
You don't need to read them all, Beckett. Read one, the rest are the same story.


If you are going to read one, read Assassins of Gor. It is the most interesting of the first 11 (I never made it through 12 or beyond).

Yours,
Taggard



perverseangelic -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 9:12:40 AM)

Well, I'm going to go back to the initial question and answer it from my perspective.


I am a slave because of who I am. For me, it is less about what I do than what I feel is my nature, that I cannot be other than. This effects what I do, yes, and the way I interact with my partners, but it isn't formed by that.

Even before I ever "officially" belonged to someone, I found my behaviors toward my partners to be solicitous beyond that which was expected. Though that could be true of lots of people in lots of circumstances, for me, it is simply an extention of what I believe to be my identity.

So, for me personally, a slave is who I am, not what I do. Even before I belonged to someone, I considered myself a slave, because I don't know how -not- to.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 9:14:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
You don't need to read them all, Beckett. Read one, the rest are the same story.


If you are going to read one, read Assassins of Gor. It is the most interesting of the first 11 (I never made it through 12 or beyond).


(Yeah, I am replying to myself, direct all comments to administrative assistant, MzBerlin.)

Or read Imaginative Sex by Norman. The first 42 pages are a very interesting encapsulation of his philosophy of sex and male/female relations. Kind of like reading the Ayn Rand's Virtue of Selfishness instead of slogging through The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (though I would recommend either of those endevours over the Gor series).

Yours,
Taggard



LadyBeckett -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 9:24:26 AM)

Who's that guy in the picture??? Assasains of who? From where?



anthrosub -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 9:26:28 AM)

Hello newflowers,
Welcome to Collarme! i read your post and want to say my own was an attempt to describe what i feel is a qualitative difference in experience. This was not meant to denigrate the value of either. i used the departure/journey analogy because it seems to mirror the experience of doing something "permanently" rather well and includes a lot of the same emotions that more people are likely to have experienced in everyday life. Of course, this assumes the reader has made a major relocation at least once.

To expound on what i wrote, imagine moving somewhere else in the same city or town versus relocating to a different part of the country...so far that even the local customs and cultures have changed. There is a difference. For myself, i feel something similar takes place when someone surrenders themselves into slavery. i should add here something that i was thinking about when i wrote my first reply but got sidetracked while writing.

There's always a lot of discussion about the exact meaning of the term "slave." Obviously, we are not talking about slaves from defeated empires in days of old or the slaves brought over during this country's early history. Any slave today is making it by choice, so in some ways all subs/slaves start out as a sub so to speak (using the commonly held definition of a sub). But a slave departs this starting point and leaves behind the "choice" option (willingly) where the sub retains the option.

So the departure/journey analogy can also be used to describe the transition one makes. You are right that we all will grow from our experiences and hopefully they will serve to improve their quality whether it is a sub or slave involved. my writing was not meant as a reflection on the character of either but only to describe the feeling of each undertaking. Hope this helps.

anthrosub



LadyBeckett -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 9:42:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
You don't need to read them all, Beckett. Read one, the rest are the same story.


If you are going to read one, read Assassins of Gor. It is the most interesting of the first 11 (I never made it through 12 or beyond).


(Yeah, I am replying to myself, direct all comments to administrative assistant, MzBerlin.)

Or read Imaginative Sex by Norman. The first 42 pages are a very interesting encapsulation of his philosophy of sex and male/female relations. Kind of like reading the Ayn Rand's Virtue of Selfishness instead of slogging through The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (though I would recommend either of those endevours over the Gor series).

Yours,
Taggard


I've read both, and some of her other works, and felt that similarity in attitude as I read what you've sent me. It's not as difficult to read, for me, as it has been for others, I'm guessing. But then I enjoy Norman Mailer, so there it is. lol

It isn't the male/female aspect that captured my interest. It was the fact that the story inspired a role playing game, and then an entire lifestyle. From where I'm sitting, this isn't about "I'm a little bit kinky" to those who live the Gor lifestyle. They breathe it. It runs through their veins. And I can relate to that, in a lifestyle way.

I have more thoughts about it, but I'd like to read more first, and hear what others have to say, which was the purpose of the thread.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 10:31:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett
I've read both, and some of her other works, and felt that similarity in attitude as I read what you've sent me.


In all honesty, in all of my interactions with Leonidas, I have always felt he was describing a person living Rand's philosophy more than he was describing someone living Norman's.

Yours,
Taggard

And that is me in the picture...avatar change. *wink*



jillwfsub4blkdom -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 10:48:46 AM)

Taggard,
Nice new avatar - had to blink twice to make sure it was You lol.

jill



SherriA -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 10:58:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub
Any slave today is making it by choice, so in some ways all subs/slaves start out as a sub so to speak (using the commonly held definition of a sub). But a slave departs this starting point and leaves behind the "choice" option (willingly) where the sub retains the option.


While that's a nice idea for some, and probably an active mindset for SQO people, it's simply not reality. As long as you live in a country that disallows slavery, you ALWAYS have the choice, even if you never choose to use it. You can call yourself a slave, you can decide not to ever leave, but when push comes to shove, you CAN leave. It's your right as a free citizen in a country that doesn't allow slavery, and calling yourself a slave doesn't negate that right.

Ultimately, I think it's a mind game that some people play with themselves. If that works for them, I figure they should go for it. But believing that one has NO choice to disassociate from the relationship isn't reality.



anthrosub -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 11:25:41 AM)

SherriA,
i completely agree with you. Everything i'm saying is meant to be taken with that in mind. As i said, i'm not talking about the slavery that's been outlawed but rather the genre that exists within the BDSM community. People enter into the role of slavery just as they choose to enter into a relationship...willingly. In my view, BDSM "slavery" can be considered the ultimate form of consensual non-consensuality. Maybe i should qualify my writings with this last sentence but i thought that was a given. The difference between "real" slavery and BDSM slavery is being able to participate in the choices.

anthrosub



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 11:27:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA
While that's a nice idea for some, and probably an active mindset for SQO people, it's simply not reality.



SQO? Some Quick Onions?

Yours,
Taggard



MizSuz -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 11:44:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett

Yanno, I finished book one, Suz, and started book two. I read the preface, and thought for a minute. Read the preface again, and decided to take my computer apart and clean it with q-tips and alcohol. I'll keep you posted. [;)]
color]



HA! That sounds much more interesting than one of those books!

Be that as it may, I'm interested in your take on them.



SherriA -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 12:36:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
SQO? Some Quick Onions?


Some Quantity Of



LadyBeckett -> RE: What say you, slave? (8/7/2004 1:24:11 PM)

anthrosub, are you a sub, or a slave? Do you understand the difference between the two? Are you satisfied that I understand the difference between the two? Do you understand that "the difference between sub and slave" was not the purpose of this thread? Further than that, at this point, I really don't give a shit whether it's legal or not. I don't care about whether or not contracts are binding, whether they look good in the baby's room, or whether it's raining in California. What I wanted to know was, what "slaves", or anyone else, had to say about the following snip of conversation that I clipped:

quote:

A slave is about what a person is, not what a person does. Clearly defining limits and expectations does not make one any less of a slave.

We part company here. I would contend that a slave is someone who surrenders their freedom to someone else. It has everything to do with what they do. They may do it because of what they are, but the act is still required.


To include anything, pro or con, that anyone might like to offer about Gor (within reason, of course), or any modications thereof.

p.s. Sherri, I happen to like your "IMNSHO" FWIW [;)] Although, sometimes it takes me quite a while to figure them out. lol



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