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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/13/2008 3:09:17 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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Status: offline 		The government should provide aid for the poor and homeless.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/13/2008 3:24:32 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver


Everyone has a friend that proves their point popeye but in every quality listing in just about every market in the world, the top quality rated cars are Japanese and German. Most lists use customer based satifaction surveys so its the customers that deciding which are quality and the sales seem to say they are putting their money where their mouthes are.


The independent quality listings in this country use the same customer-based satisfaction surveys.  While the Japanese models do very well overall, they are by no means at the top in every model comparison and their quality ratings have slid in recent years.  The German models have done poorly in quality surveys here for many years, though showing some improvement last year. 

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/13/2008 3:27:59 PM >

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/13/2008 3:42:21 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

The government should provide aid for the poor and homeless.


No, that would be socialism.  Only corporate welfare is acceptable.  

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/13/2008 8:12:39 PM   
corysub


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Status: offline 		The taxpayer should not come to the aid of GM,Ford and Chrysler.  These are companies that should go into bankruptcy, reorganize, restructure labor agreements and, at the same time, the government should put a moratorium on these damn environmental requirements and minimum mpg standards.  Congress is dicatating what the car companies must build but they can't legislate the consumer to buy that crap.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 1:50:53 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When companies move jobs out of the country, some of the profits come back.

Is it me or isn't there that many capitalists in America any more?


And the lost jobs?


Hey, you Americans are supposed to be the die hard capitalists.

Or are you only capitalists in the good time when people in other countries suffer and Americans are doing OK? America was the leading country in promoting (I won't say forcing) free trade in other countries, even though the US has a record of protecting its own companies. However, now with other large trading blocks such as the EU and ASEAN, there is more of a level playing field, this has exposed the American worker to the cold winds workers in other countries have had to endure. America could go back to protectionism but it won't help the workers losing their jobs because the size of the potential market for American companies will be greatly reduced because no other country is going to expose their markets to competition by government protected American companies.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 1:55:55 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver


Everyone has a friend that proves their point popeye but in every quality listing in just about every market in the world, the top quality rated cars are Japanese and German. Most lists use customer based satifaction surveys so its the customers that deciding which are quality and the sales seem to say they are putting their money where their mouthes are.


The independent quality listings in this country use the same customer-based satisfaction surveys.  While the Japanese models do very well overall, they are by no means at the top in every model comparison and their quality ratings have slid in recent years.  The German models have done poorly in quality surveys here for many years, though showing some improvement last year. 


I know there was a worry and a lot of debate by German companies that their products would suffer by being built outside Germany which appears to be true then. I know here in Europe since German expansion overseas, one should insist on a German built vehicle. But anyway, Japanese and German cars still appear to be doing relatively better than American cars in thie home market so the American manufacturers are doing something wrong.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 3:33:58 AM   
tweedydaddy


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Status: offline 		Wheres the money back from the bloody war for oil?
Of course you should support your car industry it employs your people, why not get back some of the money the sheikhs are raking in for ripping you off for oil while your troops are getting killed protecting it for them?
Opec is stuffing huge price rises up your ass while Americans are dying every day to keep it going, or is it just me?

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 3:37:26 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		You might want to talk to GW about that.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 3:56:25 AM   
Dnomyar


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Status: offline 		No American car has 90% american parts. I agree with one of the other post. Let them go into chapter 11 first. Why do we need 40 or more models to choose from.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 4:00:52 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy

Wheres the money back from the bloody war for oil?
Of course you should support your car industry it employs your people, why not get back some of the money the sheikhs are raking in for ripping you off for oil while your troops are getting killed protecting it for them?
Opec is stuffing huge price rises up your ass while Americans are dying every day to keep it going, or is it just me?


The troops are protecting the oil, not the sheikhs.

OPEC is keeping the price down and OPEC doesn't have the power it had in the 70s because its % share of oil production has gone down. You want to keep oil prices down, nuke China, I'm sure someone in Washington is considering it.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/14/2008 4:01:53 AM >

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 4:46:02 AM   
Dnomyar


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Status: offline 		Did not England sell off their car companies to everyone else including the Americans because they were going under?  Thes people from other countries can't even keep their own contries above water and are trying to tell us how to run ours. Mabey England should start a diversion and invade Ireland.  

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 5:38:22 AM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

No American car has 90% american parts. I agree with one of the other post. Let them go into chapter 11 first. Why do we need 40 or more models to choose from.

Only a few years ago, they were listing several as 90% American and Canadian parts.  I believe that is how I stated it in case someone missed it or in case I accidently cut something trying to fix one of my frequent typos.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 6:13:51 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Did not England sell off their car companies to everyone else including the Americans because they were going under?  Thes people from other countries can't even keep their own contries above water and are trying to tell us how to run ours. Mabey England should start a diversion and invade Ireland.  


I think you will find that Britain did very well out of dumping its ailing car industry and is probaly a lesson to America on this point. Though I admit in some industries it was a case throwing the baby out with the bathwater but since it stopped subsidizing its manufacturing industries it has boomed (until the current crisis obviously). I was listening to the radio yeaterday and it appears that the government thinking is that many ailing financial companies can go too. Britain has a far more balanced economy than it used to have and has far more small to medium sized companies than before which are the backbone on which Japan and Germany built their success, not great lumbering multi-national corporations.

England is not a country and doesn't even independently exist in any official political form so if I was you, I'd get you history and politics right first. As for a diversion Blair tried to create one by being the US's lapdog but uinfortnately, no one bought it.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/14/2008 6:15:27 AM >

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 7:22:14 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When companies move jobs out of the country, some of the profits come back.

Is it me or isn't there that many capitalists in America any more?


And the lost jobs?


Hey, you Americans are supposed to be the die hard capitalists.

Or are you only capitalists in the good time when people in other countries suffer and Americans are doing OK? America was the leading country in promoting (I won't say forcing) free trade in other countries, even though the US has a record of protecting its own companies. However, now with other large trading blocks such as the EU and ASEAN, there is more of a level playing field, this has exposed the American worker to the cold winds workers in other countries have had to endure. America could go back to protectionism but it won't help the workers losing their jobs because the size of the potential market for American companies will be greatly reduced because no other country is going to expose their markets to competition by government protected American companies.


Meat, it wasn't "America" that wanted those "free trade" deals, it was corporations!
If The People were to vote on them we'd be out of them!
That's why I think Bush and Clinton will go down as two of the worst presidents we've ever had.
To wit, Bill Gates stating before congress that there's a "labor shortage" in his industry!
In a "labor shortage" wages are going up not down!
The reason that we're in a reccession now among other things is that the average worker is making much less today than in the 90's.
So, if they're making less because their jobs went overseas how are they supposed to be buying all these big companie's goods and services?
I believe JuliaOceana said that she did a research paper about "Nafta" and said that the only people present at the meetings for it were big business and politicians.
No unions, no taxpayer groups, no-one representing the People's interests!
One thing we now know, "Nafta" was a Horrendous mistake!
Also, if we had a national healthcare plan in the U.S. it would even the playing field somewhat.

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 7:32:53 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		GM and the rest of the auto companies should be allowed to break up.  We broke up AT&T and look what that did.  Our economy is going to suck for a long time, the sooner we take the hard hits the better.  GM has no foresight, the management sucks, they thought oil would be cheap forever and now they are going to pay for that stupidity.  If we are going to go subsidizing industry, how about subsidizing things like solar which will help us tell the arabs to go fuck themselves rather than prop up an industry that helps keep us enslaved to them?

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 7:37:56 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		An auto bailout just isn't going to get past the lame duck Congress, especially the Senate, and Bush isn't likely to sign it.

Who knows what the situation might be in late January?

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 7:51:14 AM   
Maya2001


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From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

No American car has 90% american parts. I agree with one of the other post. Let them go into chapter 11 first. Why do we need 40 or more models to choose from.

Only a few years ago, they were listing several as 90% American and Canadian parts.  I believe that is how I stated it in case someone missed it or in case I accidently cut something trying to fix one of my frequent typos.


actually that was about 10 years or more ago and those content numbers where fudged

for example the main floor wire harness was made in the phillipines   and shipped to a US company who then maybe added a part to or simply just a label --- by  the addition of the label added to it is suddenly became and american part  , but most of the labour and manpower that went into making that part  was not within north America..so it was called an american made part even though  it actually was not....by opening up international trade agreements  the US automakers could  then ship the part direct to the  car assembly  factories and bypass  the recieving company  that affixed the label becuase they no longer required the 90% content.  A lot of the parts going into the cars then where  handled this way .... the only difference now is they can legally admit that the foriegn content is high.

There is a lot of fudging of numbers... quality is not just based on consumer surveys ..it is also based on internal audits and first time in house quality builds ...and those numbers get fudged all the time


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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 8:28:28 AM   
Irishknight


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Status: offline 		Actually, I am referring to only 5 years ago.  And, unless the auto industry is far different than the appliance industry, those numbers are now checked and have been for a few years.  That is why Amana and all the other Whirlpool subsidiaries sell "assembled in America" as opposed to "made in America."  Too many people complained about what you are stating.

And, just to let some of you know, the Toyota plants in America are fighting the UAW greed machine as well.  Prices are raising and quality is falling. 

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 9:39:52 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

GM and the rest of the auto companies should be allowed to break up.  We broke up AT&T and look what that did.  Our economy is going to suck for a long time, the sooner we take the hard hits the better.  GM has no foresight, the management sucks, they thought oil would be cheap forever and now they are going to pay for that stupidity.  If we are going to go subsidizing industry, how about subsidizing things like solar which will help us tell the arabs to go fuck themselves rather than prop up an industry that helps keep us enslaved to them?



Well, if we're going to do that them we ned to let the banks, brokerages and insurance companies fend for themselves too!

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RE: Should The US provide aid to the automotive industry? - 11/14/2008 11:29:32 AM   
Maya2001


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quote:

The cost of the above adds literally thousands of dollars to the cost of the American car, where with the imports it is measured in hundreds of dollars.


do you not think that  the Japanese the germana also  retire and have need of benefits??

the entire manufacturing sector pays retirement and benefits  not just auto manufacturers   but take for example  the garment industry ... out of  their product 20% is labour cost   but  automaker has a much bigger profit margin  on their product and labour costs are only 2%

Also remember retirement benefits is part of the wage   that money is taken weekly and deposited to  an investment company   and then  transferred to the worker upon retirement into another account ... it is not GM's moneys it is part of the workers paycheck   ...  and it  is not coming out of today's operating budget ....that is if they did things like they were supposed to do 

if there is any   actual  problem than it would likely be because GM did not put the money into the investment account like they where supposed to do weekly .. if fact.. they  were stealing part of the workers pay  to use elsewhere  ..a misappropriation of funds ....if that is the case ...do we blame the retiring worker and expect them to suffer  for GMs mismanagement  of retirement funds ????

and it is the worker that pays the unions costs not the employer


< Message edited by Maya2001 -- 11/14/2008 11:30:55 AM >

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