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Outlaw85 -> RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory (11/12/2008 3:40:30 PM)
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let me just make this abundantly clear, because this isn't even something you debate. It's plain, and simple and matter-of-fact, in the same way that 2+2=4. that's just the way it is.
1. The only thing that gives the bill of rights any weight, any merit at all, is the leverage of an armed population to enforce these rights. It's part of our system of checks and balances.
2. If said rights are anulled, then we as citizens are completely liberated of any moral responsibility or loyalty to the government. It's a binding contract you see. Not only that, but we then also morally entitled to the right to then overthrow said government by brute force if nessisary, which is a right clearly stated and represented in our declaration of independance. Consider it the equivilent of Case Law. And in the spirit of "case law" I cite the 13 colonies vs Great Britian "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." In short, if my rights are anulled, it is perfectlly morally acceptable for me to shoot all armed representatives of said oppressing government on site, with guns that I will still have possession of, and it wouldn't be just me, there would be millions of people like me, in numbers far greater than the total number of police and armed forces. To put it very bluntly, it's impossible for the goverment to deprive us of specific rights because we will outright kill them for it. They are deadlocked.
3. People suffer under the delusion that if guns were banned, that people who do not respect the law will magically no longer have them. That sort of convoluted logic is completely ludacris I'm afraid. The only thing that outlawing guns will accomplish (outside of outright insurrection) is exponentinally adding to the flame of organized crime by feeding the already profitable illegal gun trade, and now that all obtained guns are illegal, the government will not even have a record of what honest moral citizens own weapons and will be able to track nothing. People also don't realize that ak-47s and other weapons can be easily produced in basic machine shops. That's what they do in pakistan. Similar to how people made moonshine during prohibition.
So considering this, those law abiding pacifists who wouldn't rebel, would be stuck between armed criminals and armed government. Then when factoring in the social unrest of basic rights being deprived of moral and rebellious and armed citizens, the government will be forced to take more and more controlling measures in order to try to smother the flame of hatred and revolution that would engulf the nation, and the unarmed law abiding citizen will be at the complete mercy of the government, and the criminals, and the rebels, completely helpless.
4. And then finally, the final point. We live in a society that holds certian principles dearer than life. And that is why we're more violent. If a canadian is being raped, they wouldn't dream of killing their attacker. they value life too much. Americans however have made it quite clear that not only our lives but our property is more valuable than those who would wish to violate it. Not only that, but consider this. People also suffer under the delusion that the police can help you. they can't. most crimes go unsolved. the simple fact is, a man can walk into your home, trash everything, take what they want, and leave and the police will do little more than take a report. they lack the money, and the manhours in most cases to even do the most basic of investigation such as taking fingerprints. The police, at very best, exist to hunt down the criminal AFTER the fact, in MOST cases. Therefore, you have to take SOME responsibilty for yourself if you don't want those bad things to happen to you, and be prepared to defend yourself.
That's one of the biggest problems we have in society, is our laziness, and lack of willingness to take responsibility. We used to look out for ourselves and our neighbors, we no longer do, and thus gangs run rampant,. We don't want to deal with it, we want to live in the comfort of our own delusion that we're safe, and give more and more responsibility to the government, which they take, depriving you of more and more of your freedom as a result, and it's not even intentional, they just wind up having to pass more and more restrictive laws.
There is something else very wrong with our society and I'm not sure what it is. But it's very unsettling. 50 years ago 8 year old boys being charged with double homicide was unheard of. It's a fact that gun violence is rising and there is something very wrong. However, we were just as armed as a society 50 years ago, as we are now. Therefore, if you use logic, you have to come to the conclusion that obviously it's not the guns that are the problem, it's the people, and our society.
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