RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (Full Version)

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JustDarkness -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 9:41:32 AM)

I don't think it is a myth..because myth often have a spark of truth in it..lol



IrishMist -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 9:51:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I don't think it is a myth..because myth often have a spark of truth in it..lol

Really? And where did you learn that at?

Myths are fictional stories used to explain phenomena or aspects of human behavior. Sort of like making up something to explain a strange occurance. There is no basis of truth within the myth itself; only the story behind it.
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861632231_1861632217/prevpage.html



JustDarkness -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 9:54:28 AM)

lol I know you love me..and you don't recoqnize humour.

have a great day.



scottjk -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 9:58:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

[sm=pole.gif]
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

Well, I refuse to start out with the premise that no one is deserving of some level of trust. However, 'trust but verify' is a very sensible thing to do. So, if that person seems what you're looking for, why not agree to a public meet? It all comes out in the wash in person most of the time. (sigh) I would like nothing more than a date or two to see how things go, rather than spend weeks or months at a computer, doing what we could do in PERSON. It would at least be far more enjoyable and a lot more sociable.

I never understand the way some people think, some times, the vetting process isn't all that painful.

I for one am willing to meet most people as long as it's in public.

One time, I was asked to meet some one. I asked her if she's got a safe call set up. She flipped out on me telling me I'm some kind of freak. My only response was, "Well, yeah, I'm a freak, but do you have your safe call set up?"

She never returned my mail. [:D]


Ya, I agree.  If someone is really interested in me, they'll haul their azz out for a cup of coffee and meet me.  I once spent six months talking to a Dom in Long Island before meeting him.  He stiffed the waitress on her tip when he paid the bill.
 
That was enough for me -- I skated.  I don't think you can tell who a person really is without meeting them first.
 
candystripper 


I know I'm short on information, but... you skated on a guy based on how he tipped???




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 10:07:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

I know I'm short on information, but... you skated on a guy based on how he tipped???




I would as well... especially if we were considering the person as a potential future keeper in our household. You can tell a lot about a person by the way xhe treats service persons -- those who short a waitress are just as likely to have little regard for the efforts put forth by our own servants....  Now that being said, someone who -overtips- for crappy service would get short shrift from us as well if xhe were on the list as a potential keeper, for just the opposite reason, since this is clearly a person who doesn't know how to properly value service and fail to give the (IMO necessary) message of 'mediocre or crappy just isn't good enough to merit special recognition'.

Just to be forthright, our general rule is that basic, good service gets a 15% tip. Poor service or rude/unprofessional behavior or demeanor drops that down to 8-10%... if we have to go down to 8% or consider not leaving a tip at -all-, that's really bad, and it would also merit a discussion with the manager before we leave the restaurant. Excellent service gets ~ a 20% tip, and that can go up (we've tipped as high as 50% for service that truly went above and beyond any call of duty and where the service didn't slight the other customers either!). Just about everyone in our household has spent some time waiting tables. It's often a thankless job, and the gov't takes its cut regardless of whether customers tip or not... so if the customers are tightwads and don't tip, a day's shift can end up with the wait-staff actually OWING money for coming to work.

Recognizing and respecting the efforts of others is a social courtesy, and one that cannot, IMO, be taken too lightly when assessing compatibility.



theobserver -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 10:21:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

[sm=pole.gif]
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

Well, I refuse to start out with the premise that no one is deserving of some level of trust. However, 'trust but verify' is a very sensible thing to do. So, if that person seems what you're looking for, why not agree to a public meet? It all comes out in the wash in person most of the time. (sigh) I would like nothing more than a date or two to see how things go, rather than spend weeks or months at a computer, doing what we could do in PERSON. It would at least be far more enjoyable and a lot more sociable.

I never understand the way some people think, some times, the vetting process isn't all that painful.

I for one am willing to meet most people as long as it's in public.

One time, I was asked to meet some one. I asked her if she's got a safe call set up. She flipped out on me telling me I'm some kind of freak. My only response was, "Well, yeah, I'm a freak, but do you have your safe call set up?"

She never returned my mail. [:D]


Ya, I agree.  If someone is really interested in me, they'll haul their azz out for a cup of coffee and meet me.  I once spent six months talking to a Dom in Long Island before meeting him.  He stiffed the waitress on her tip when he paid the bill.
 
That was enough for me -- I skated.  I don't think you can tell who a person really is without meeting them first.
 
candystripper 


I know I'm short on information, but... you skated on a guy based on how he tipped???




Yes, sure sign of a cheapo and a purse controller. Ah yes, visions of giving a detailed explanation of why you need twenty dollars to buy one brand of Tampax or the other.




LadyConstanze -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 10:36:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

[sm=pole.gif]
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

Well, I refuse to start out with the premise that no one is deserving of some level of trust. However, 'trust but verify' is a very sensible thing to do. So, if that person seems what you're looking for, why not agree to a public meet? It all comes out in the wash in person most of the time. (sigh) I would like nothing more than a date or two to see how things go, rather than spend weeks or months at a computer, doing what we could do in PERSON. It would at least be far more enjoyable and a lot more sociable.

I never understand the way some people think, some times, the vetting process isn't all that painful.

I for one am willing to meet most people as long as it's in public.

One time, I was asked to meet some one. I asked her if she's got a safe call set up. She flipped out on me telling me I'm some kind of freak. My only response was, "Well, yeah, I'm a freak, but do you have your safe call set up?"

She never returned my mail. [:D]


Ya, I agree.  If someone is really interested in me, they'll haul their azz out for a cup of coffee and meet me.  I once spent six months talking to a Dom in Long Island before meeting him.  He stiffed the waitress on her tip when he paid the bill.
 
That was enough for me -- I skated.  I don't think you can tell who a person really is without meeting them first.
 
candystripper 


I know I'm short on information, but... you skated on a guy based on how he tipped???





I would have done the same, to be perfectly honest. It shows a lot about his character. I worked in journalism for a long time, I never judged a celeb if he or she treated me nicely, they wanted publicity from me, I watched how they treated people they didn't need to be nice to, showed a lot more about their character and I kept that habit, somebody who gives restaurant staff a hard time because "s/he can" is most likely an idiot and will treat you the same way if he thinks he can get away with it.



candystripper -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 10:38:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

I know I'm short on information, but... you skated on a guy based on how he tipped???




I would as well... especially if we were considering the person as a potential future keeper in our household. You can tell a lot about a person by the way xhe treats service persons -- those who short a waitress are just as likely to have little regard for the efforts put forth by our own servants....  Now that being said, someone who -overtips- for crappy service would get short shrift from us as well if xhe were on the list as a potential keeper, for just the opposite reason, since this is clearly a person who doesn't know how to properly value service and fail to give the (IMO necessary) message of 'mediocre or crappy just isn't good enough to merit special recognition'.


While I agree with you Calla, many wait staff are new hires.  Sometimes there's a f**k up in the kitchen.  So unless a waiter is outright rude to me, I 'overtip'.
 
We had sat having coffee in a little diner in my neighborhood for like 2 hours. Long since done with lunch, the waitress brought us refills on our coffee for the balance of the time.. 
 
The bill was about $10 -- he tipped $2.  I was just aghast.  $2 for 2 hours work?  You probably know that wait staff are exempted from the minimum wage law, and are only paid by resturants at a rate of about $1.50/hr.
 
I frankly cannot stand cheapskates.  It's a miserable, hoarding, distrustful personality trait.  I don't invite the annoying into my life, any more than I do the deranged.
 
Peace out.
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]



camille65 -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 10:40:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Now that being said, someone who -overtips- for crappy service would get short shrift from us as well if xhe were on the list as a potential keeper, for just the opposite reason, since this is clearly a person who doesn't know how to properly value service and fail to give the (IMO necessary) message of 'mediocre or crappy just isn't good enough to merit special recognition'.




I've actually overtipped after receiving crappy service.
The reasons for doing so were because it wasn't really the servers fault, like when a servers area is way overloaded or when kitchen staff is missing. The server cannot control everything and sometimes crappy service is caused behind the scenes.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 10:48:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65


I've actually overtipped after receiving crappy service.
The reasons for doing so were because it wasn't really the servers fault, like when a servers area is way overloaded or when kitchen staff is missing. The server cannot control everything and sometimes crappy service is caused behind the scenes.



See, I don't necessarily consider that 'crappy' service... if the server does hir level best to take care of us, and is polite and pleasant regardless of any difficulties caused by the kitchen or understaffing or poor management of the team, that's -good- service in my book, even if the steak was cooked to the wrong temperature, or the food tastes horrible, or the waiter is trying to juggle 4 6-tops without help... and if the server did a good job under those circumstances, adjusted for circumstance, I'd probably give a better than average tip, and I certainly wouldn't penalize for things not in the server's control.

Crappy service, to me, hypothetically are things like where the restaurant is nearly empty, it's mid-shift (not the start of a new shift or close-of-business), and half the order comes to the table wrong... meaning that the server didn't check the order before bringing it out... and then gets huffy when he's called on it, or where a server disappears and doesn't bother to provide any service at all when the place -isn't- crowded or understaffed... where the food is dropped on the table and that's all there is.



fragilepieces -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 11:02:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

[sm=pole.gif]
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

Well, I refuse to start out with the premise that no one is deserving of some level of trust. However, 'trust but verify' is a very sensible thing to do. So, if that person seems what you're looking for, why not agree to a public meet? It all comes out in the wash in person most of the time. (sigh) I would like nothing more than a date or two to see how things go, rather than spend weeks or months at a computer, doing what we could do in PERSON. It would at least be far more enjoyable and a lot more sociable.

I never understand the way some people think, some times, the vetting process isn't all that painful.

I for one am willing to meet most people as long as it's in public.

One time, I was asked to meet some one. I asked her if she's got a safe call set up. She flipped out on me telling me I'm some kind of freak. My only response was, "Well, yeah, I'm a freak, but do you have your safe call set up?"

She never returned my mail. [:D]


Ya, I agree.  If someone is really interested in me, they'll haul their azz out for a cup of coffee and meet me.  I once spent six months talking to a Dom in Long Island before meeting him.  He stiffed the waitress on her tip when he paid the bill.
 
That was enough for me -- I skated.  I don't think you can tell who a person really is without meeting them first.
 
candystripper 


I know I'm short on information, but... you skated on a guy based on how he tipped???


No one should order pie without asking the Dom if he has sufficent funds![:)]



candystripper -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 11:07:43 AM)

I have only been pissed off at a waiter once since I've lived here.  My brother's best friend lost his mom.  After the funeral, we all went out to eat.  The waiter expected to stand at the end of the table and pass out drinks and plates of food, and then have us pass them around the table. WTF?
 
Now this was a nice resturant.  I told the waiter to bring me my food and beverage, which caused something of a stir.  I did not want to add to my friend's grief, so I shut up.  Had I been the one paying that bill, there would have been no tip at all.
 
I do not understand why resturants -- particularly nice ones -- do not add a tip to the bill automatically.  It's so unfair to the wait staff when they are stiffed, and people do do it.
 
If I cannot afford a tip to the waiter, I choose somewhere less expenseive to eat.  My nut-job ex-husband used to do this all the time and it drove me batshit.  I really don't see the difference between stealing by going in someone's purse and stealing by not paying at least the customary tip.
 
Peace out.
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]



scottjk -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 12:21:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theobserver

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

[sm=pole.gif]
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

Well, I refuse to start out with the premise that no one is deserving of some level of trust. However, 'trust but verify' is a very sensible thing to do. So, if that person seems what you're looking for, why not agree to a public meet? It all comes out in the wash in person most of the time. (sigh) I would like nothing more than a date or two to see how things go, rather than spend weeks or months at a computer, doing what we could do in PERSON. It would at least be far more enjoyable and a lot more sociable.

I never understand the way some people think, some times, the vetting process isn't all that painful.

I for one am willing to meet most people as long as it's in public.

One time, I was asked to meet some one. I asked her if she's got a safe call set up. She flipped out on me telling me I'm some kind of freak. My only response was, "Well, yeah, I'm a freak, but do you have your safe call set up?"

She never returned my mail. [:D]


Ya, I agree.  If someone is really interested in me, they'll haul their azz out for a cup of coffee and meet me.  I once spent six months talking to a Dom in Long Island before meeting him.  He stiffed the waitress on her tip when he paid the bill.
 
That was enough for me -- I skated.  I don't think you can tell who a person really is without meeting them first.
 
candystripper 


I know I'm short on information, but... you skated on a guy based on how he tipped???




Yes, sure sign of a cheapo and a purse controller. Ah yes, visions of giving a detailed explanation of why you need twenty dollars to buy one brand of Tampax or the other.




Well, I might be more generous in my opinion of people until AFTER they've earned my contempt. (shrug) Like I said, I'm short on information here, and no, I won't ask you to justify it. Not gonna thread jack like so many rude people do.

Getting back to... um, trust issues? Right? lol

Honestly, I worry about people that put too much stock in the media and writers in general. Spending time with PEOPLE is more important, getting opinions. Working with local lifestyle groups would probably be a better thing to get a good view of what REALLY happens in meetings.

Of course, there's the usual politics, but that's something you can't escape.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 12:29:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper


I do not understand why resturants -- particularly nice ones -- do not add a tip to the bill automatically.  It's so unfair to the wait staff when they are stiffed, and people do do it.



I'm going to disagree with this resoundingly. I like having the capability to decide how much I'm going to tip in a given situation, and strongly resent being told I have to tip X amount.

Personally, I think that either restaurants should eliminate tipping entirely (as they do in much of Europe, where salaries are commensurate with making a real living and tipping is rare), and increase the cost of a meal accordingly to cover the costs of paying their employees a living wage (and accept that some folks won't eat out if they have to pay the -real- cost of their meal and the service thereof) OR they should allow people to accept responsibility for tipping properly (including teaching young people how to tip) and refrain from assigning arbitrary percentage-level tips, except, perhaps, for large-group tickets where a single check is required for the entire table. I do -not- think, though, that businesses should tack on an additional percentage to my bill unless I say so -and- I don't think it's any service to people to allow them to renege on the responsibilities of the contract that they enter into when choosing to eat at an establishment that provides table service.



LadyConstanze -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 1:05:00 PM)

I absolutely agree with Calla, in London they pretty often add the tip to the bill, I find that a bit presumptuous and of course I do pay the bill then, but often I would have tipped more but since they decided to tell me what I have to tip, well, I pay that.

But Calla, having worked in quite a few bars, pubs and restaurants in Europe when I was a student, actually the tip is part of your earning, the wages in the service industry are not great because people will automatically assume that you earn extras with the tips, so tipping is pretty much customary in Europe too and I always consider it quite rude to not tip at all, especially in restaurants.



daddysliloneds -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 1:27:03 PM)

hey, bad shit happens to people who never even leave their homes as well you know!  just staying inside and watching television a number of things can happen to you, you know, like an armed robbery, assault, sexual assault, murder.  everything has a risk factor.  people will decide for themselves if the trade-off is right for them, no matter how loud anyone else may shout from the roof-tops about how something is sooooooooo dangerous!



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 1:36:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I absolutely agree with Calla, in London they pretty often add the tip to the bill, I find that a bit presumptuous and of course I do pay the bill then, but often I would have tipped more but since they decided to tell me what I have to tip, well, I pay that.

But Calla, having worked in quite a few bars, pubs and restaurants in Europe when I was a student, actually the tip is part of your earning, the wages in the service industry are not great because people will automatically assume that you earn extras with the tips, so tipping is pretty much customary in Europe too and I always consider it quite rude to not tip at all, especially in restaurants.


It's been a long time since I was in Europe -- sorry to hear that that has changed. When I went some 25 years ago, service staff got well-paid and tipping wasn't encouraged (they even had little signs on the table in English in the touristy places in France and Austria telling us how it was really kind of rude to tip because it implied that the owner wasn't taking care of hir employees).

I'll remember, when we go over next summer, that it's now customary to tip in Europe as well.



LadyConstanze -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 1:46:40 PM)

Are you sure that you saw it in Austria? My grandparents took me there frequently and they always tipped because it was considered rude or bad service if you didn't, overtipping is also considered a bit rude, kind of rubbing people's faces in that you are so much better off (stay in between 5% for not too good service and 15 to 20% for excellent service)

In Germany it's a rule of thumb that the waiters get roughly 7 to 10% of their sales as a wage and get to keep the tip, from that percentage they also pay tax.

A general rule for tipping in Europe would be, if you get your drinks or food at the bar (sort of self-service) you don't tip, if somebody brings you food or drinks you tip. The only places where I never tip are places where I know the owner will keep the tip and it doesn't go to the staff, I'm paying the owner with the bill, the tip is for the staff...



candystripper -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 1:49:07 PM)

My favorite book on the subject of personal safety is called The Gift Of Fear , by Gavin De Becker.  I think he has the credentials to speak on the subject, but no matter -- what he wrote resonatated for me.
 
While he writes about the management of risk in the workplace, etc., he also writes about the difference between real FEAR as oppossed to anxiety or shyness.
 
When your body in in a state of FEAR (assuming you have no psychiatric problems) it is trying to wake you up to the fact that something in your environment is DANGEROUS.
 
I know whom to approach if I get lost while traveling in some big city.  I know whom NOT to approach.  I think most folks have their own 'street smarts' and the POINT of the f**king Op is, don't disregard your 'street smarts' when dating/meeting folks off the 'net.
 
Christ, failed reading comprehension?
 
candystripper  [sm=pole.gif]



CalifChick -> RE: The Myth That All Folks Into D/s Can Be Trusted (11/13/2008 2:34:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

The bill was about $10 -- he tipped $2.  I was just aghast.  $2 for 2 hours work? 


Wow, nothing like cutting him slack on that.  He did tip 20% after all... probably just wasn't thinking about the time factor.  Surely he was so engrossed in your conversation that he didn't realize the passage of time, or it didn't cross his mind when he was paying.

The $1.50/hour thing is such a gross overgeneralization that it would take far too much space to actually clarify the reality.  The short version is that this varies by state and California, for one, requires all waitstaff to be paid the state minimum wage of $8.00 per hour NOT including tips.

Cali







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