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RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 5:14:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Here's your answer.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 11/14/2008 5:15:10 PM >

(in reply to StrongSpirit)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 5:18:39 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Thanks Ms Tammy im glad you have not had a truculent sub to deal with. But it does happen , just as there are exploitative Dommes out there , there are also manipulative subs and the fact that the sub has the ultimate ability to leave a relationship that for me gives him/her the greatest power . but like i say harmony is best
kevin



I'm not sure where you've gotten this idea.

I've trained dozen of subs, played with a dozen more, and own only a handful of slaves. Only one has stayed with me.

None of that makes what I said invalid. Every one has power in the relationship. What you have in Ds is a recognition of and exercise of authority.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 11/14/2008 5:22:16 PM >

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 5:18:46 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery
i think your right. in a sense the sub has ultimate control , he/she can end things without much damage to himself/herself, whereas the emotional damage to a Mistress/Dom can be very severe


Why in the world would you presume there is inherently less damage potential to the s- rather than the D- even if one were to entertain your premise that the sub has ultimate control?  I disagree. 
  Davan

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(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 5:21:14 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

i think your right. in a sense the sub has ultimate control , he/she can end things without much damage to himself/herself, whereas the emotional damage to a Mistress/Dom can be very severe


And I've ended things and left the sub emotionally damaged I'm sure.

Don't assume that only the person on the bottom side of this equation is the one who begins or ends things. That's isn't reality.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 5:48:20 PM   
Ferns


Posts: 36
Joined: 2/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

Who has the power?

The answer is the same for ALL types of consensual relationships: kinky, vanilla, straight, gay, etc.

He/she that wants the relationship LEAST has the power.

Because they can and will walk away.  Everything else is simply irrelevant. 


This is the bottom line and it has absolutely nothing to do with who is dominant or submissive in the relationship.

Ferns



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Domme Chronicles

(in reply to StrongSpirit)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 5:51:59 PM   
Untouched1282


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline 		Everything is contingent and relative to the situation. Every individual action requires a person to take either a submissive or a passive role so the understanding of who is in power is always in flux.

True TPE is impossible, as self-interest will always prevail. They will always have a choice, and the sub will always acts in a manner they view to be most beneficial to them. Even if someone were able to brainwash sub into thinking they are dependent on someone in order to survive, they wouldn't have absolute control over them, at least in a metaphysical sense. The subs decision to remain dependent would be based on their desire to survive. They would rely on the person, would do what they are told is best for them, yes, but only becomes they selfishly view to best for them. They perceived Dom becomes a tool, a resource for the sub, which has become a glorified leech.

I prefer the terms of Top and bottom over Dom and sub.

No more wine for me!

< Message edited by Untouched1282 -- 11/14/2008 5:52:50 PM >

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 11:38:28 PM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		i guess it works like this a sub could promise a Domme a money tribute for example and back out at the last minute. Who loses. The Domme
kevin

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 11:43:35 PM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery
i think your right. in a sense the sub has ultimate control , he/she can end things without much damage to himself/herself, whereas the emotional damage to a Mistress/Dom can be very severe
Only in your dreams maybe...  In real life, not exactly.  

quote:

i guess it works like this a sub could promise a Domme a money tribute for example and back out at the last minute. Who loses. The Domme
kevin
 I don't believe it's possible to lose something you never had in the first place, except maybe an opportunity, but even that is a choice one sometimes makes.   M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMaam -- 11/14/2008 11:45:33 PM >

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(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/14/2008 11:48:10 PM   
UmbraDomina


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline 		in my eyes, it is a power exchange, the submissive offers their power in exchange for the control of the dominant. Both have the power to walk away as in ANY relationship. In most real time BDSM couples it is a shared power, with the dominant having control.
I think power and control are two different things.

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(in reply to FullfigRIMaam)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 5:30:02 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Here's your answer.


Lordandmaster,

Perfect... as I was reading this post, I had this song playing in my head and there it was! 

To answer the question... both people have the power because as others have said, both can walk out and end the relationship.

I choose not to continue to have power struggles and when that happens I release the potential.  So I guess ultimately I will have  dealt the final hand of power.  If he walks, then he has.

Power vs. authority are not the same thing.

The choices one makes gives them power, if nothing else, over themselves.

Faye



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I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 5:47:06 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ferns

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

Who has the power?

The answer is the same for ALL types of consensual relationships: kinky, vanilla, straight, gay, etc.

He/she that wants the relationship LEAST has the power.

Because they can and will walk away.  Everything else is simply irrelevant. 


This is the bottom line and it has absolutely nothing to do with who is dominant or submissive in the relationship.

Ferns




Granted.  But I suppose one could argue, Ferns, that a person who doesn't want a particular relationship holds no power that's worth having.  Alternatively: he or she lacks the power of the feelings that his/her partner holds . . .


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(in reply to Ferns)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 6:39:24 AM   
Ferns


Posts: 36
Joined: 2/28/2008
Status: offline 		Not wanting the relationship is a different thing, Peon.  It's about how much each party wants it and the imbalance of that desire.  It is extremely rare for it to be equal.  The person most willing to walk has the most power.  The other person is normally willing to make concessions to keep the relationship, sometimes they will do anything to keep the relationship. 

This power balance underlies any D/s dynamic and the last sentence relates to Sea's point earlier "a relationship in which this power tilts heavily in favor of the submissive due to inequal desires to be in the relationship creates a challenge for the D/s dynamic".

Ferns


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(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 6:46:25 AM   
DelilahDeb


Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		Fast reply:
I have all the power (choice, authority, control) I need: the choice of how I play, with whom I play, and when I play.
And I make sure that my play partners as well as my subs know that they have an equal choice. Grups only!

One high-profile place that I've seen this less-than-accurate description of the dynamics of D/s relationships is on the first couple of Lady Heather CSI episodes. Well, guess what. Even if the writers of said episodes were lifestyle kinksters and completely understood the dynamics in their personal lives, they are limited by the show "bible", the plot of the murder(s) of that episode, the script editor, the director, the producer, and even possibly the actors' handling of the dialog. The good part of those episodes is more that what is presented as BDSM (specifically a pro-dungeon in a state, if not a city, that has legal prostitution) is not completely trashed by those stories.

As for that infamous femdom-to-malesub ratio, I must say that I don't find myself flooded with petitioners. (Oh, I get a handful of CM mail per week from the bots who send to every femdom on the site, sure. I don't count those.) But then…I'm old, I'm fat, I'm a witch, I'm poly, and I'm cautious. And I'm in the middle of a state that has a measly 3 to 4 million total residents (maybe 200,000 in my metropolitan area). What's our ratio of kinksters to population, a fraction of one percent? Based on my own knowledge and a few wild guesses, I'd say local ratio of kinksters out enough to attend a munch or visit a dungeon is definitely on the close order of less than half a percent—regardless what that ratio is elsewhere.

I'm grateful for the few cherished individuals that I have made contact with via CM, but that's four subs in two years, one of whom was clueless, and another of whom was very temporary due to lack of fit. Don't talk to me about being spoiled for choice. (Fortunately, the other two are grand, although one is only in the state a few weeks a year.)

Lady Delilah Deb

< Message edited by DelilahDeb -- 11/15/2008 6:53:19 AM >

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(in reply to StrongSpirit)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 7:53:40 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit
He/she that wants the relationship LEAST has the power.

Because they can and will walk away.  Everything else is simply irrelevant. 


I've heard this a lot, and it always really bothers me.  The only way I can see it giving me power is if I use my ambivalence to take advantage of my partner - leave it to them to make all of the compromises.  I know that people do this, but it's an unethical/illegitimate use of power, is it not? 

Is there any ethical way to exercise the power one could get from being the most willing to leave?

(in reply to StrongSpirit)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 8:09:40 AM   
Ferns


Posts: 36
Joined: 2/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit
He/she that wants the relationship LEAST has the power.

Because they can and will walk away.  Everything else is simply irrelevant. 


I've heard this a lot, and it always really bothers me.  The only way I can see it giving me power is if I use my ambivalence to take advantage of my partner - leave it to them to make all of the compromises.  I know that people do this, but it's an unethical/illegitimate use of power, is it not? 

Is there any ethical way to exercise the power one could get from being the most willing to leave?



I don't think they need to exercise the power at all.  If both parties know it's there, it's just there and can influence behaviour just because of that knowledge. 

Ferns




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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 9:33:49 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ferns

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

Who has the power?

The answer is the same for ALL types of consensual relationships: kinky, vanilla, straight, gay, etc.

He/she that wants the relationship LEAST has the power.

Because they can and will walk away.  Everything else is simply irrelevant. 


This is the bottom line and it has absolutely nothing to do with who is dominant or submissive in the relationship.

Ferns




Principle of Least Interest, simple as that.

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m y s p a c e


(in reply to Ferns)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 10:23:14 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

i guess it works like this a sub could promise a Domme a money tribute for example and back out at the last minute. Who loses. The Domme
kevin




Well, yes and the sub could really want a session then and wave cash and might actually want to pay her, and she simply wouldn't be interested anymore, who would lose then?

You seem to be obsessed with putting Dommes down? Bad experiences? You know if the sub can always just walk away, back out, has all the power, etc. then it makes me wonder why so many subs are searching, shouldn't the one in power have the upper hand? I have yet to see a bunch of Dommes begging one sub to submit, on the other hand, each time I open my mail....

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There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 10:43:01 AM   
Untouched1282


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

i guess it works like this a sub could promise a Domme a money tribute for example and back out at the last minute. Who loses. The Domme
kevin




Well, yes and the sub could really want a session then and wave cash and might actually want to pay her, and she simply wouldn't be interested anymore, who would lose then?

You seem to be obsessed with putting Dommes down? Bad experiences? You know if the sub can always just walk away, back out, has all the power, etc. then it makes me wonder why so many subs are searching, shouldn't the one in power have the upper hand? I have yet to see a bunch of Dommes begging one sub to submit, on the other hand, each time I open my mail....


ProDommes are dominant in terms of their actions. That's there form of power. They also decide if they want to take you on as a client. It's a different form of Domination. Power is relative to the experience/situation for everyone, not only those in a self-labeled D/s relationship.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 10:46:42 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Who loses. The Domme
kevin




You seem to be obsessed with putting Dommes down? Bad experiences?


You noticed too, Ms. Constanze? Quite patent from the postings. If personal, financial, etc. losses of Female dominants make him happy, why does he want to submit? Or does he? I admit I have not read the male's profile.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: So who really has the power REALLY - 11/15/2008 10:49:47 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		It's blatantly obvious and makes me wonder, oh well...

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There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 40
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