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Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/14/2008 8:54:39 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		So, I was watching a show on the History Channel about the Civil War Prision Andersonville, and the conviction of its Warden, Captain Henry Wirz. 
 
And I got to wondering about prosecutions that might be brought against George W. Bush:
 
For Lying His Ass Off About 'Weapons Of Mass Destruction' in Irag.
 
Isn't this a War Crime?
 
For F**king Up the Economy.
 
Isn't this Treason?
 
Do you think George will commit more crimes between now and Jan. 21st, 2009?  Personally, I'm waiting for him to abuse his Executive Pardon Powers for his friends. 
 
The man seems positively dumber than a box of rocks.
 
Any thoughts, folks?
 
candystripper 
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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 5:55:43 AM   
Manawyddan


Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline 		You do realise that one of the main reasons the Republics took so much trouble to impeach Clinton, was to politicise the process? Now any attempt to impeach Bush will look like a partisan payback, and send the right-wing masses into foaming at the mouth.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:03:49 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
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Status: offline 		I hate to burst your bubble, but I really doubt anything will happen to the man. He will leave office and go off and enjoy his life and retirement.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:05:03 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		There may be merit to your post candy but, I am not sure being an idiot is an impeachable offense.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:05:47 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
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Status: offline 		If you ever get to GA...you might want to stop by and see the prison site. I read the book, but actually seeing it in person was amazing. It boggles my mind that people could have been treated like that.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:07:07 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Evidence would be the problem;
How to go about proving that he knew what he knew?
Or proving he didnt know what he knew?
Or that he knew what he didnt know?
Or that he didnt know what he didnt know?

Thereafter the reality is that the US has refused to ratify the court in The Hague which might deal with such matters as war crimes. Blair meanwhile could conceivably be carted off to face charges there, but Bush couldnt and any trial would have to be in the US where it would be shot down in flames as political and prompt enormous upheavals.

That Blair has not been so carted off indicates that war crimes are only ever committed by the defeated.

E

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:07:43 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Huh? So we've repealed portions of the Constiution ya think?
 
BTW, Clinton should have been impeached.  I believe he got away with murder in the White Water Scandal.  And it wasn't just Monica Lewinski -- who was what?  21?  -- it was also Gennifer Flowers, who was picked up by AK state troopers and brought to see Clinton when he was sitting as govenor because he desired her.
 
If Clinton had had a patriotic bone in his body, he would have resigned and spared the nation the creepiness.  I can still hear it:
 
'I did not have sex with that woman.  I did not have sexal relations with Monica Lewinski."
 
and who can forget:
 
'it depends on what 'is' 'means'.
 
Ugh.  Gag me.
 
candystripper 

 
The man's a liar and a sexual predator.
 
And his freaking wife is just as sleasy.  Has no one noticed she's lezzie?  No wonder she doesn't care who her husband f**ks -- only none of my lezzie girlfriends would allow such a sleasebag in their lives in any capacity.
 
O, I just can't stand either one of them.  It's like Nixon -- if Nixon had been able to get it up.  Gawd forbid Obama would pardon Bush.  I say send him to the federal pen, or wherever war criminals go.
 
I didn't need to 'heal' when Ford pardoned Nixon -- I needed justice.  That's exactly what I need now as well.

candystripper 

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/15/2008 6:15:17 AM >

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:21:14 AM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline 		He can no longer be impeached as a practical matter.  Not enough time left in the Congressional calendars.  Even if there were, all that would do is remove him from office.  No other punishment involved with impeachment.

He can however, be convicted of the above crimes, by a Federal prosecutor or even any of 50 state Attorneys General, after Jan 20.

Assuming that he doesn't pardon himself, that is.  The Constitution does not specificially prohibit a President from pardoning himself, and there is debate among Constitutional scholars as to whether or not it's possible.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:29:52 AM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Evidence would be the problem;
How to go about proving that he knew what he knew?
Or proving he didnt know what he knew?
Or that he knew what he didnt know?
Or that he didnt know what he didnt know?

He has already admitted in public to authorizing warrantless wiretaps, and a Federal court later ruled these to be a felony.

quote:


Thereafter the reality is that the US has refused to ratify the court in The Hague which might deal with such matters as war crimes. Blair meanwhile could conceivably be carted off to face charges there, but Bush couldnt and any trial would have to be in the US where it would be shot down in flames as political and prompt enormous upheavals.

That Blair has not been so carted off indicates that war crimes are only ever committed by the defeated.

E

He cannot be carted off while on British soil.  If arrest warrants exist in another country, he might be wise not to visit those countries.

Several Bush aides (Gonzales, Rumsfeld, et al) already face arrest and war crimes trials in several countries should they set foot in them, or in any countries that have extradition treaties with them.  They have been told which countries to avoid.

Legally, Bush and Cheney could face the same fate.  As a practical matter, diplomatically few countries would arrest a former head of state.  However, they could, for example, have their visas revoked before they even pass Customs, which means they'd have to get their ass back on the plane and go home.

Same for Blair.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 6:32:55 AM   
amelliagrace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper


For Lying His Ass Off About 'Weapons Of Mass Destruction' in Irag.
 
Isn't this a War Crime?
 

It would be decidedly difficult to prove what, exactly, he knew or didn't know for sure.  The chances of any prosecution for that one are nil, as the precident it would set is one with woeful long term consequences for all future administrations, and the nation in general.  I'm somewhat bummed about that, but at least can see the long term.
 
quote:

For F**king Up the Economy.
 
Isn't this Treason?
 

Not necessarily treason - more like several poor circumstances meeting a bunch of poor judgement, over 12 yrs or so.  And if you are going to prosecute Bush for the current economy, you'd also need to bring charges against Clinton over such things as NAFTA and the deregulation of the banking industry.  Congress holds much of the responsiblity as well.

quote:

Do you think George will commit more crimes between now and Jan. 21st, 2009?  Personally, I'm waiting for him to abuse his Executive Pardon Powers for his friends. 
 
The man seems positively dumber than a box of rocks.
 
Any thoughts, folks?
 

Name me one president in the last 50 yrs who hasn't "abused his Executive Pardon Powers for his friends".  This is nothing new.  Rather an abomination, yes, but not new, and not surprising when it happens.
 
Grace
 

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:01:10 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Messing up the economy is not a crime.

The biggest crimes are starting the war in Iraq and authorizing torture. He could be prosecuted under existing US law on both. However he is going to pardon everyone who could possibly testify against him so there won't be anyone who will testify against him rather than face jail time.

He will be indicted by one or more foreign national and international courts. If any have an extradition treaty with the US they could try and have the warrant executed by our government but its pretty unlikely. Likely Bush ands his cronies will simply be unable to leave the US for fear of arrest.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:12:04 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		I doubt anything will happen to anyone involved, of couse if you talk to GOP supporters there is nothing they really did wrong.

I think Bush will leave office and much like Nixon, whenever the tide starts to turn in his favor a little more info will be leaked and linked to him which will turn the public against him again.

I am very interested to see who hires him and Cheney for speaking engagments.  I trust it will be those he sold out to and time for payback.



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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:16:19 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Evidence would be the problem;
How to go about proving that he knew what he knew?
Or proving he didnt know what he knew?
Or that he knew what he didnt know?
Or that he didnt know what he didnt know?

Thereafter the reality is that the US has refused to ratify the court in The Hague which might deal with such matters as war crimes. Blair meanwhile could conceivably be carted off to face charges there, but Bush couldnt and any trial would have to be in the US where it would be shot down in flames as political and prompt enormous upheavals.

That Blair has not been so carted off indicates that war crimes are only ever committed by the defeated.

E


In GWB's case we could  adapt Res Ipsa Loquitur to the criminal rules of evidence.  Oh well, just dreaming  nice thoughts.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:18:10 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Cheany is a totally different matter....untouchable for the most part and perhpas one of the worst things to happen to our country in decades....totally disgusting individual!

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:24:01 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

There may be merit to your post candy but, I am not sure being an idiot is an impeachable offense.


Is it a defense, then SM?
 
Man, if it is, all my clients are gonna start failing IQ tests, LMAO.
 
As far as I can tell, 'too stoopid' won't even get you out a spedding ticket, ROFLMAO.
 
candystripper 

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:31:32 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Forget it.

There's no question in my mind that Bush richly deserved impeachment.  Kucinich actually introduced a measure to impeach (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/09/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4167427.shtml) but the wusses in Congress made it nonbinding and it didn't merit coverage after that.

I was deeply disappointed that Pelosi and Reid preferred whining about a criminal in office to doing something about it and showing leadership and responsibility.



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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:31:53 AM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		You can't touch him. To be tried you need to be acknowledged as being sane.

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:34:45 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

For Lying His Ass Off About 'Weapons Of Mass Destruction' in Irag.

Isn't this a War Crime?

No

quote:

For F**king Up the Economy.

Isn't this Treason?

No again.


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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:36:06 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Evidence would be the problem;
How to go about proving that he knew what he knew?
Or proving he didnt know what he knew?
Or that he knew what he didnt know?
Or that he didnt know what he didnt know?

Thereafter the reality is that the US has refused to ratify the court in The Hague which might deal with such matters as war crimes. Blair meanwhile could conceivably be carted off to face charges there, but Bush couldnt and any trial would have to be in the US where it would be shot down in flames as political and prompt enormous upheavals.

That Blair has not been so carted off indicates that war crimes are only ever committed by the defeated.

E


Humm, you know the darndest stuff, LadyEllen.
 
Okay, so what's the deal?  The U.S. is a signatory to the Geneva Convention (unless I missed a news flash) and a member of the United Nations. We particpated in the Nuremburg Trials.
 
So I'm having a big ole blonde mo, LOL.
 
But hey, let's say we forego all the international and military justice systems and just charge Bush with First Degree Murder of what?  5,000 U.S. service men and woman and 1 million Iragis and Afghanis?
 
We should charge Cheney for conspiracy to commitFirst Degree Murder and for embezzling from the government (anyone remember the secret no-bid contracts with Cheney's former employer?)
 
As for evidence, we cannot hope Bush is as stoooppid as Nixon was (imaginig taping yourself as you conspire to commit Treason.  Gheesh.)
 
I bet Colin Powell is not going to commit perjury for Bush.  Once one member of Bush's cabinet is twisted, IME, they'll all start ratting each other out and trying to save their own asses.
 
I never thought about Blair -- too busy being cheesed off at Bush, LMAO.  So, is there talk of prosecuting him over there in GB?  How cool.

 
You are am amazing woman LadyEllen; I hope we get to keep in touch.
 
I think folks get confused when a matter is enornmous in proportion to the matters they are accustomed to seeing.  They seem to think the law does not apply to people who make a great deal of money, or are very powerful.
 
If I had the time or energy, hell, I could' *prove beyond a reasonable doubt* that Bush lied, etc., but -- big sigh -- litigation is a young lawyer's game.
 
candystripper  

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/15/2008 7:40:21 AM >

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RE: Convicting Georage W. Bush - 11/15/2008 7:48:36 AM   
candystripper


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Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

He can no longer be impeached as a practical matter.  Not enough time left in the Congressional calendars.  Even if there were, all that would do is remove him from office.  No other punishment involved with impeachment.

He can however, be convicted of the above crimes, by a Federal prosecutor or even any of 50 state Attorneys General, after Jan 20.

Assuming that he doesn't pardon himself, that is.  The Constitution does not specificially prohibit a President from pardoning himself, and there is debate among Constitutional scholars as to whether or not it's possible.



Ya, the Dems fell asleep on impeachment.
 
But I want Bush's hide -- I want him doing time with some Big Bubba making him his bitch, LMAO.  Then he should get sued civily for wrongful death about 1.5 Million times, and hopefully someone will figure out how to execute judgement. 
 
I do feel sorry for Barbara Bush.  I always liked her.  I'd admired her refusal to give a flip about what people thought of her appearance.  She and Daddy Bush must be scratching their heads, wondering how they managed to raise such f**ktards as Jeb and George W.
 
And the grandkids -- gheesh!  What college aged woman can't keep from getting arrested for drugs at least while Daddy is in office?  Smoke dope at home, hunni, like the rest of us did.  Good grief.
 
candystripper 
 

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