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Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 5:37:08 AM

MissIsis

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I was at an S&M get together last night. We hold it informally in a vanilla setting, & it is similiar to a munch. It is a great way to socialize with like minded people.

In talking to one gentleman last night, (I hope he won't take offense. He is a pleasant, & nice person) I realized just how far apart some of us are in regards to what we perceive this lifestyle to be. He mentioned that he leads another group that meets a couple times a year for play & fun. But during the conversation, he mentioned that he holds these events at a nudist camp & how much fun it was for him to have 2 naked girls riding in the back of his golf cart & one riding on the hood. That was all well & good. He went on to talk about how he introduced a woman to S&M & made her orgasm 8 times. That to me, is not what this lifestyle about.

But then he began to talk about how the old guard lifestyle never focused on sex, & how the new generation of lifestylers were all about sex. The conversation made me realize just why it is that sometimes we have so many misunderstandings about the lifestyle between each other. It may also be why we have so many people coming on to lists like this, thinking that being sexual on cam is part of our lifestyle.

I really have no problem with sex. In fact, I enjoy it. However, it is about much more than tying someone up, paddling them & making them want an orgasm or giving them multiple orgasms as many times as I can. I enjoy all of those things, the sadism, the masochism of my partner, the many different sensations I can give, & I am happy to use them, but my ultimate quest is the submission of my willing subject, & the desire on both our parts to push through our limits.

To me, it is more about the control & service. And yes, sex can be used as a part of that. My submissives have almost always been allowed release, but only as a reward & never as a main part of fulfulling their kink, & never with me actually having sex with them. Generally, they take care of themselves at my direction every step of the way.
And you know, they are, for the most part quite fulfilled to serve me, as I am honored to have their service.

Does anyone care to jump into this discussion? Has this lifestyle really come to be more about sex & how many times you can make someone come, rather than about the many nuances involved in gaining the trust & commitment towards one another?

Post #: 1

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 5:44:59 AM

JustDarkness

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BDSM has become more normal...at least to a certain level and is often shown in relation to sex.
So people think bdsm=sex.
It can be more..but it doesn't need to be more...for some.
I think bdsm is still the same as it used to be...just new directions are added.

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 2

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 5:59:43 AM

kallisto

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I don't think it has anything to do with old vs new. I think it has to do with the dynamic of the people involved. Sure, I do believe that "kinky sex" is becoming more mainstream. There's not a day that doesn't go by that you can't read about it, hear someone talking about it, or see a spot on TV about it. But that is "kinky sex".

There are people who are "into the lifesytle" for the control and service only.   There are those that are into a 24/7 relationship.   There are those are into it for the kinky sex only. There are those that BDSM, vanilla, and every day life are all wrapped up into their relationship and they live it day in and day out.    It's the dynamic of the relationship.

I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way.   It's what works for the people in the relationship.

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 3

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 6:15:44 AM

agirl

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You've described what the 'lifestyle' means to YOU, how you go about it and what you do. To you it's about control and service.

It is what it is depending on what you've decided 'the lifestyle' IS.

For lots of people it IS about tying people up, paddling them, making them want orgasms and giving them as many as they can.

Bdsm IS fun..not everyone is looking for deep and meaningful commitments of the D/s kind.

Personally I don't have any idea what 'the lifestyle' is ....... I have a style of life that involves aspects of what is understood as D/s and bdsm. There is no prescription.

agirl

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 4

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 7:18:45 AM

daddysliloneds

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if i found one good man into something other than the sexual and pseudo-sexual aspects of the lifestyle, he'd own the entire package that makes up me, unlike some that may own just bits and pieces of me at a time, never really knowing me except what i allow them to know...

i figure it this way, if you're just looking to get laid, say so, but don't try to sell me on the idea of something you can't give me just to get kinky sex, which happens more than not in the last twenty years or so.

so yeah, i suppose the lifestyle now seems to be more focused on the sexual aspects than what i knew it to be in years of past. i have to say though, i still to this day haven't gone to a public affair, munch, etc., because what i knew from days gone by was through personal experience, not public agreement on what i need to feel complete.

< Message edited by daddysliloneds -- 11/16/2008 7:37:47 AM >

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 5

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 7:27:19 AM

SirDominic

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quote:

But then he began to talk about how the old guard lifestyle never focused on sex

That may be "his" interpretation, but at my last convention I was talking to one of the "old" old guard (a gentleman who has been in that scene for decades) and he offered this bit of information. He said "Today we try to make the case that Old Guard is not about sex", then he smirked, "but we all know it has always been about the sex."

Bottom line, it always has, and always will, depend on the individuals involved deciding what importance sex will play in their lifestyle.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 6

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 7:33:27 AM

antipode

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quote:

Has this lifestyle really come to be more about sex

No. You're just getting older. And your view is as valid as anybody else's. If you really want to establish a statistical trend, do proper research.

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 7

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 9:02:20 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

But then he began to talk about how the old guard lifestyle never focused on sex, & how the new generation of lifestylers were all about sex. The conversation made me realize just why it is that sometimes we have so many misunderstandings about the lifestyle between each other. It may also be why we have so many people coming on to lists like this, thinking that being sexual on cam is part of our lifestyle.

when I hear comments like this.. I am instantly turned off. In fact... as I was your OP up to this point.. I was finding that this individual was not someone that I was going to want to be talking with. Just about anytime I see some through out Old Guard stuff... I am immediately turned off with them as a person. Generally because much of what they say shows a lack of integrity and talk that is all about inflating their fragile ego.

quote:

Does anyone care to jump into this discussion? Has this lifestyle really come to be more about sex & how many times you can make someone come, rather than about the many nuances involved in gaining the trust & commitment towards one another?

For some people it's about sex... for some it's service.. for some its' about the power transfer... for some it to kill spare time.......... Hell.. I don't know why people want to generalize what this lifestyle is all about for everyone.. or what it use to be about and what it is now. I don't know what "This lifestyle" was or is becoming.... just because I know we can't pigeon hole these sorts of things. But.. I do know what My lifestyle was and is and where I am headling to ... that is all that really matters to me. As far as the rest of you.. I hope you getting from it what you want.. if you not... then stop doing the same thing and expecting different results.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 8

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 10:00:10 AM

SadysticJester

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back when the only way to go to a play party or event was to be invited with stipulations,these were the days when it was kept private,and the computer was really a new toy to be explored.....and over the years its evolved into the area it is today where everyone has their own take on what they consider lifestyle oriented,,,,trying to adapt to the new in certain area's can be somewhat challenging to say the least......my opinion.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 9

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 10:08:11 AM

leadership527

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quote:

MissIsis said:
Does anyone care to jump into this discussion? Has this lifestyle really come to be more about sex & how many times you can make someone come, rather than about the many nuances involved in gaining the trust & commitment towards one another?

Well, at least in my view that is what it is about. I strongly suspect that has always been what it's about. Even a casual glance at this site and the pictures on it pretty much tells the tale. The fact that I DO perceive BDSM to be all about sex is the single largest reason why I don't self-identify as into BDSM.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 10

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 10:25:11 AM

DesFIP

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If we go back to the beginnings, to the gay leathermen after WWII, then it was about s & m and sex.

The control and service only seems to be much more an issue of female dominants than male.

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Post #: 11

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 10:25:21 AM

stella41b

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Part of me feels I'm repeating myself here from other threads. However...

You know I just cannot be bothered what other people think about where I fit in with this 'lifestyle' - or rather subculture. All that matters to me is what I'm doing in 'my' lifestyle with the people who are in my life and that we are all fulfilled and happy through what we do and what we share.

I live outside the box, I really do. I'm sure there are other people who also live outside the box and good luck to them as well as to the people who prefer to live in the box.

What I can't understand are the ones who feel the need to put everyone in a box, just as I cannot understand those who claim to be living out the box but who in fact have climbed back into the box. But you know it's their life, not mine.

And you wonder why there's people going round trying to sort other people out into 'real' and 'fake'? What does it matter? It only matters because you've got people going round talking about 'THE lifestyle' and saying 'people should this' and 'people should that'. Should they? And who says so?

No matter how much you try this will never ever be a community of like-minded people, but one of diverse people with even more diverse interests, each with their own lifestyle and manner of living.

Therefore finding your niche is perhaps more possible than finding a definition.

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(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 12

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 11:09:01 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Is someone really trying to say that original homosexual old guard stuff really was not about sex?

I think the reality is that modern hetero kinky people are as freaked out and ignorant about sex issues as swingers are about authority dynamics.

Personally I say why not have it all? Why can't I embrace sex AND play AND authority dynamics all together? If my sex sullies your kink well that's your issue.

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Post #: 13

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 1:56:32 PM

auburnvixen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

No matter how much you try this will never ever be a community of like-minded people, but one of diverse people with even more diverse interests, each with their own lifestyle and manner of living.

Therefore finding your niche is perhaps more possible than finding a definition.

Well said.

Like stella41b, I am not at all concerned with the "twoo" or the "faux", only that I find what I enjoy with others who enjoy something similar. Those who constantly "should and shouldn't" need to use their definitions for themselves alone and let the rest of us stay out of their little boxes.

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(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 14

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 2:23:26 PM

greeneyedreamer

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quote:

if i found one good man into something other than the sexual and pseudo-sexual aspects of the lifestyle, he'd own the entire package that makes up me, unlike some that may own just bits and pieces of me at a time, never really knowing me except what i allow them to know...

Yep, it was a long road to find someone who has the total package to offer to me and to receive from me. In my opinion, I think that is the real problem. Looking past "kinky" sex and into the connection/communication/trust issues that are imperative in this lifestyle.

Dreamer

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(in reply to daddysliloneds)

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 2:32:39 PM

Viridana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

To me, it is more about the control & service.

To me it's about the art of pain. I don't engage in d/s of any kind nor is it sexual to me in any way. Does that mean that I'm not in "the lifestyle"? Hell no!

There are many ways to make BDSM a lifestyle. One isn't more important or better than the other. To each their own ......

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 16

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 2:53:27 PM

ResidentSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis
Does anyone care to jump into this discussion? Has this lifestyle really come to be more about sex & how many times you can make someone come, rather than about the many nuances involved in gaining the trust & commitment towards one another?

Give or take a degree, I think I see it from the same angle you do. I agree that the lines between swinging and BDSM seem blurred at times. Although BDSM came to the public print media as a subset in swinger’s magazines, there is a perceivable dividing line to my understanding of it and it is pretty much in accord with what you said. Swingers explore sex with “leather” as added spice. BDSM explores “leather” with sex as a spice.

Because BDSM includes control and submission, which appeals to the core of our humanity, the popularity of BDSM is growing. There is an influx of sexually motivated explores we hold an appeal to. Most of the human race is sexually motivated to some degree or another.

Even wikipedia has been affected by the current popular image of BDSM and it proffers a new definition that includes D/s (domination and submission) in the meaning. So BDSM has gone from 4 things at the roots of sadomasochism to now include 6 things. They added new meaning to “DS” and claim it to represent the philosophical relationship lifestyles of the D/s culture.

The world of BDSM is changing. I suspect in the future you will hear about more golf carts with nekked women being counted in the BDSM genre than it being swinger’s at play.

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 3:02:56 PM

PsyVamp

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I am into the service end of the spectrum and the power exchange...someone who will push their limits for Me, and let Me push them....
that being said...
sometimes I am still "about the sex"....
sometimes the fact that this strong willed, obstinate young man drops to his knees for Me is just plain hot...
and I forget about whatever service I needed.

And I've spoken to some "old guard"... and even for them, it was very very similar.

It is whatever we want it to be, within our own dynamics.

Lady Jag

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(in reply to MissIsis)

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RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 3:12:09 PM

colouredin

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The problem is that differant people take differant words/terms to mean differant things. This means people judge others and stick their noses in the air.

First I want to say that i agree with the old addage that a hell of a lot is about sex or at least erotosism. What that means is again differant to differant people. For example S/M is very often seen as being intrinsic to a power exchange but for me its not, i am not masochistic in the slightest.

Your view of what it all means is fine, its your view there is no right or wrong, what to me falls down is the judgement side of it when someone else doesnt fit your boxes, thats something I think the 'old guard' phrase does. Its like when parents say in my day, in your day what? Are you telling me that all the evil in the world originated in the last 20 years? Thats a pile of crap. Experssion of sexuality has changed we are far more open about it now that was the case fifty years ago, but experssion doesnt mean reality. The prudish victorian age was actually a hotbed of sexuality, the origins of orgies etc.

We tend to look down on those younger than us as being less experiance, it somehow validates our own experiance, makes it all ok. Its not actually true though, there isnt enlightenment no matter how old you are you are still clueless really, you still have loads to learn and will carry on changing all the time, its just not as pronounced.

Shitting on something because they arent what you are is pretty bad, mind you accepting that everyone finds their own way to do things can be hard too.

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(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 19

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new - 11/16/2008 3:12:12 PM

ResidentSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
BDSM has become more normal...at least to a certain level and is often shown in relation to sex.
So people think bdsm=sex.
It can be more..but it doesn't need to be more...for some.
I think bdsm is still the same as it used to be...just new directions are added.

I agree with you that our “roots” are mostly still in place and there are just a lot of new directions. I think what is happening to some of the ‘older generation’ is that the new age BDSM community has put down so many new directions, what was the core of BDSM (to them) is now overshadowed by the vast quantity of new age people and concepts. Finding what was once the simple core of BDSM nowadays is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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Post #: 20

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