A semi philosophical question.

A semi philosophical question. (Full Version)

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DoctorJeep -> A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:02:41 PM)
I had written on another thread about the need to see your sub as not just a toy. Fellow Doms, don't get me wrong, she is there to serve and to please, but, to truly get the most out of her I believe that there must be a mental connection when vertical before play begins. As such, she trusts you more and you explore her more fully. I find that I simply get bored with subs who have nothing to themselves. So my question to the Doms and the subs out there is: To the Doms: Which play is better and more satisfying to you? Do you prefer to have the totally disposable little toy? Or, do you find that breaking in one that you actually care for as a person is more of a challenge and produces more of a gain? I suppose that the way that I phrased that indicates my preference... To the Subs: Would you rather be chewed up and spit out or, would you rather have a Dom who sees you and into you where you have developed a more serious bond? To both: Obviously both have thier place depending on the scene and the appetite, but which really makes it for you?

littlewonder -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:06:12 PM)
I am much more into the deep bond with a man, that man who sees me as more than just a slave, a fucktoy, a thing. He sees me as someone he cares for, enjoys in every way, someone he feels comfortable with on a deeper level. Sure the whole playtoy thing is fun but in the end I need more..much more.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:07:26 PM)
Honestly, both really make it for me. I get a huge kick out of topping a 'toy' for an evening. I also get a kick out of long-term, intense training for a long-term servant. They're two completely different facets of WIITID, to me, and I don't really enjoy one or the other -more-... both are equally satisfying, and in both cases, I get a huge rush from the process. The only real difference with the long-term training is that the rush is typically not as high, but it is more prolonged. It's a nice change, sometimes, from the high-intensity, short duration 'rush' that comes with topping for casual play.

DesFIP -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:08:16 PM)
If I understand you are asking if I need a connection or can I play casually. I need a strong connection. Without that, I don't trust.

kiwisub12 -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:09:58 PM)
I'm not a dog toy , so i choose option #2! For me the mental connection is everything - but, it took a while to develope with my Sir. I knew the potential was there when we started to play, and live together. I have had others scene me - but to me that is part of my submission to my Sir. He enjoys watching me be scened - and honestly, it reinforces to me how well my Sir and i mesh - emotionally and physically. No- one has come close to making me feel the way my Sir does.

caro44 -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:10:04 PM)
littlewonder, you have expressed my feelings exactly. I can add nothing more.

LookMastersHome -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:25:34 PM)
In my opinion, its getting to know a sub on a primal level that reaps the highest level of devotion from them and satisfaction in them. The proper mental bond endures long after any playtime ropes are cut.

IvyMorgan -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:29:19 PM)
Sometimes, I like the disposable toy feeling, either as the top or bottom. Othertimes, I like the less disposable but still relativly transactional/superficial relationship, pretty much always as the bottom. Othertimes I like the deep fuzzy connection and closeness, then, I'm a person with kinks. I don't value one experience over the other two. I like all three, for different reasons, with different people, at different times. If I lost either I would be less fulfilled and less complete. I think Calla said it better than me, though we have different relationships.

DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:35:50 PM)
I absolutely agree. The bond that is needed to truly "get there" requires a level of deeper understanding.

DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:39:57 PM)
While disposability allows for a short quick rush and the disposability is a rush unto itself, I have never had a truly awesome topping seesion unless I have gotten into her head a bit. Also, there has to be some level of genuine affection I think. When that happens she opens more and I find myself feeling more free to play. I say this because I feel a responsibility to push the limits of my subs but not to actually damage them. A disposable toy, you do not know the real limits of. Your truly attached sub on the other hand you can take right to her lines and dance there safely.

chamberqueen -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 4:54:06 PM)
There are times when I am used very hard with little emotional connection. They are not my preferred times but know that I owe them to my Master if this is what he chooses for me. Feeling like an anonymous body just being used is difficult for me but it makes the times with a true connection so much more profound.

DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 5:04:53 PM)
Of course I hear that. The withdrawal of intimacy can, if used sparingly provide an additional emotional jolt. However, I find it much more intense to play and to punish in a more direct and connected way.

beargonewild -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 5:54:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep I had written on another thread about the need to see your sub as not just a toy. Fellow Doms, don't get me wrong, she is there to serve and to please, but, to truly get the most out of her I believe that there must be a mental connection when vertical before play begins. As such, she trusts you more and you explore her more fully. I find that I simply get bored with subs who have nothing to themselves. So my question to the Doms and the subs out there is: To the Doms: Which play is better and more satisfying to you? Do you prefer to have the totally disposable little toy? Or, do you find that breaking in one that you actually care for as a person is more of a challenge and produces more of a gain? I suppose that the way that I phrased that indicates my preference... To the Subs: Would you rather be chewed up and spit out or, would you rather have a Dom who sees you and into you where you have developed a more serious bond? To both: Obviously both have thier place depending on the scene and the appetite, but which really makes it for you? As a self identified sub, what works for me is a blend of both. There are times where I quite enjoy being used as a toy for the dom's pleasure first and there's a time where that deeper mental connection needs to be reaffirmed between myself and my dom. In the end, having that deeper connection is slightly greater then just being used as a plaything. After awhile, always being used as a plaything for another gets cold and the D/s aspect begins to suffer. At least for me it does.

antipode -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 6:53:52 PM)
quote: there must be a mental connection when vertical before play begins As with everything else, it takes all sorts.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 7:07:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Honestly, both really make it for me. I get a huge kick out of topping a 'toy' for an evening. I also get a kick out of long-term, intense training for a long-term servant. They're two completely different facets of WIITID, to me, and I don't really enjoy one or the other -more-... both are equally satisfying, and in both cases, I get a huge rush from the process. The only real difference with the long-term training is that the rush is typically not as high, but it is more prolonged. It's a nice change, sometimes, from the high-intensity, short duration 'rush' that comes with topping for casual play. Ditto!!!! And the same is true as a sub, sometimes I just want to be a toy where my mind is neither desired nor required, and sometimes I want to be useful as a thoughtful witty companion.

DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 7:11:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Honestly, both really make it for me. I get a huge kick out of topping a 'toy' for an evening. I also get a kick out of long-term, intense training for a long-term servant. They're two completely different facets of WIITID, to me, and I don't really enjoy one or the other -more-... both are equally satisfying, and in both cases, I get a huge rush from the process. The only real difference with the long-term training is that the rush is typically not as high, but it is more prolonged. It's a nice change, sometimes, from the high-intensity, short duration 'rush' that comes with topping for casual play. Ditto!!!! And the same is true as a sub, sometimes I just want to be a toy where my mind is neither desired nor required, and sometimes I want to be useful as a thoughtful witty companion. Well said again, I am not arguing the use of the "You are my toy" session. I am arguing however, that even those sessions require the other in order to reach thier full potential. You can not top a stranger the way you can top a devoted sub.

kyraofMists -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 7:17:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep I am not arguing the use of the "You are my toy" session. I am arguing however, that even those sessions require the other in order to reach thier full potential. No, they don't. Their full potential is being/using a toy. You don't need a relationship for that. Knight's Kyra

DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 7:23:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep I am not arguing the use of the "You are my toy" session. I am arguing however, that even those sessions require the other in order to reach thier full potential. No, they don't. Their full potential is being/using a toy. You don't need a relationship for that. Knight's Kyra Ahhhh, but your master would not know the extra ways to truly make you feel like a toy if he did not know you well enough to completely top you from the inside out. To truly make a woman into your toy, you must know her hopes and her fears. You can not do that with a stranger.

DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 7:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep I am not arguing the use of the "You are my toy" session. I am arguing however, that even those sessions require the other in order to reach thier full potential. No, they don't. Their full potential is being/using a toy. You don't need a relationship for that. Knight's Kyra But then again, to each her own.

IrishMist -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/18/2008 7:38:58 PM)
quote: To the Subs: Would you rather be chewed up and spit out or, would you rather have a Dom who sees you and into you where you have developed a more serious bond? Chewed up and spit out any day of the week. Emotional or mental ties are of no use to me when all I crave is a good hard beat the shit out me 24/7. Of course, I do not participate in 'sessions' so maybe my way is of no use to others at all [8D]

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